How to Tune(chipping/standalone/piggyback)basics and advance

[jz]

Bhai mari xli bhagti nai hai ma na jz ka kahnay par nay plug dalway hai aur hawa wala baksa nikal kar air intake lagia hai lakin koi fark nai para. Abb ma kia kar sakta hoe? Jab gear kheenchata hoe to gari baith jati hai.
Abb jz na mugay grounding aur bara cylincer ka mashwara dia hai. Us sa koi fark paray ga?

hahaha qwrty,ap driver he farig hain,ap ka ecu fry ho gaya ha

[jz]

on a serious note,
im running m13 ecu with m18a ,cant seem to find m18a ecu,wt do u suggest i do?
standalone is one option along with afc

[immad100]

^^standalone will cost you more than the engine's price itself.
around 100k atleast.
better to source m18's own ecu.
ive seen ur m18 is running lean:D
btw nice to hear about m18 vs 250G
fumbs up:)

[GreyCarbon]

Okay lets get some factual data in here ......Six cylinders create the same power alot earlier in the RPM band than L4's

RB20's produce their power in the mid-rpm range......with less engine speeds
meaning less piston speed and internal load than a 4 Cylinder SR20

a 4 CYL needs to revved alot higher to produce the same power......Six cylinder is looking like a winner here in terms of power delivery....(H)

thank you.

but Six cylinder is also heavier!

[SpoonMotorSports]

on a serious note,
im running m13 ecu with m18a ,cant seem to find m18a ecu,wt do u suggest i do?
standalone is one option along with afc

there wont be much of a difference in both the ecus m13/m18a apart from the fuel tables but i maybe wrong - could you tell me the injector size for both m13 and m18a?
as for the afc and standalone goes afc is good if you already have it but incase you want to buy it so turn over not worth it and the standalone should be an option but only if you find a base map for the m18a and start tuning it from there

[rustam54]

well i have another question....based on your answer in an earlier post.

How come
lean = powerful but dangerous

and

rich = safe???

Also, since we dont have many dyno's available here in pk (atleast thats what everyone says at PW), it all goes down to hit and trial for tuning based on experience/ intuition right?? How would one know that this is the best one can get in a given setup??

[SpoonMotorSports]

well i have another question....based on your answer in an earlier post.

How come
lean = powerful but dangerous

and

rich = safe???

Also, since we dont have many dyno's available here in pk (atleast thats what everyone says at PW), it all goes down to hit and trial for tuning based on experience/ intuition right?? How would one know that this is the best one can get in a given setup??

after the combustion process in a richer mixture the extra fuel acts as a coolant where as a leaner mixture having more air and less fuel has a powerful combustion a much complete combustion leaving no residues but due to too much air and lesser fuel the combustion temperature rises and ends up in being close to detonation

but too richer of a mixture can be dangerous too it can lead to washing out the lubricated piston rings and can damage them with time/destroy your cat exhaust and much more

the only way to really tune your car for Maximum power or maximum brake torque is to put it on a Dyno and then make a pass drive around in town and street tune if necessary both part throttle and WOT and you will have a car in which you can pick kids from school and go beat some cars at the track.But unfortunately we dont have that facility here we rely on street tune oh wait actually we rely on workshop tune - our ustad turns the distributor round and round and we say its tuned

[jz]

there wont be much of a difference in both the ecus m13/m18a apart from the fuel tables but i maybe wrong - could you tell me the injector size for both m13 and m18a?
as for the afc and standalone goes afc is good if you already have it but incase you want to buy it so turn over not worth it and the standalone should be an option but only if you find a base map for the m18a and start tuning it from there

im not aware of injector size of both n theres no writing written on the injectors as well,
there is no afc in the car at the moment,we were planning to buy it n top end is weak,need to make that stronger.the needs more fuel at top end,
to find the base map i need the m18 ecu first which isnt avaliable here
do u think chipping the m13 ecu would be a good option?

[SpoonMotorSports]

im not aware of injector size of both n theres no writing written on the injectors as well,
there is no afc in the car at the moment,we were planning to buy it n top end is weak,need to make that stronger.the needs more fuel at top end,
to find the base map i need the m18 ecu first which isnt avaliable here
do u think chipping the m13 ecu would be a good option?

after these bolt on mods i always suggest to rest the ecu so that it starts to catch the new closest parameters as close as possible after if your plugs are healthy not lean enough,you dont need to raise fuel but still if you want to a chipped ecu is better cause your actual power is in advancing the timing which with the afc isnt possible but i dont know if there is any software for suzuki ecus on which you can prepare a basemap
what are your current mods u have in the m18?

[jz]

after these bolt on mods i always suggest to rest the ecu so that it starts to catch the new closest parameters as close as possible after if your plugs are healthy not lean enough,you dont need to raise fuel but still if you want to a chipped ecu is better cause your actual power is in advancing the timing which with the afc isnt possible but i dont know if there is any software for suzuki ecus on which you can prepare a basemap
what are your current mods u have in the m18?

the ecu was reset after putting the mods bro
the mods are
air intake
4-1 headers
2.25" straight piping
free flow exaust
& plugs

[wasay_ahmed]

@JZ
Is it VVT or VVTI?
If its VVTI then ecu matters alot

[wasay_ahmed]

well i have another question....based on your answer in an earlier post.

How come
lean = powerful but dangerous

and

rich = safe???

Also, since we dont have many dyno's available here in pk (atleast thats what everyone says at PW), it all goes down to hit and trial for tuning based on experience/ intuition right?? How would one know that this is the best one can get in a given setup??

bro Butt tunning is popular around the world so in Pakistan. HPR has the only DYNO in Pakistan and every knows how fast and reliable are their cars

@lean rich thingy
Knocking is the biggest enemy of engine so thts why lean

[jz]

@JZ
Is it VVT or VVTI?
If its VVTI then ecu matters alot

bro its variable valve timing valvetrain

[SpoonMotorSports]

the ecu was reset after putting the mods bro
the mods are
air intake
4-1 headers
2.25" straight piping
free flow exaust
& plugs

if you know how to tune via vafc and if you can set all the parameters just right you also might want to look into a wideband and you better get the car ready for some serious passes neo+wideband=$$$$$$=gain(if any) not worth the money imo there are other tricks to make your car fast - yeah if you want to change pistons cams intake manifold then you might benefit from a standalone or something like that

[SpoonMotorSports]

bro Butt tunning is popular around the world so in Pakistan. HPR has the only DYNO in Pakistan and every knows how fast and reliable are their cars

Majid supra
shahid city
shahid lancer
adil hatchback
salman civic
yellow evo
jam skyline
suliman hatchback

all are tuned at hpr

but as i said in my post a powerful engined car is not always a fast car si know adil supra lost to aman 1j but you see complications

street tune is a must for a fast car to be dyno tuned in the first place

[immad100]

^well said.

[raohamid]

Salaams to all. I have never really spent anytime on this part of the forums. Usually hang around the 4x4 forums, but this thread got me interested. Would be great if you cheetahs could help.

I have a 2JZ-GE VVTi in my Pajero. I don't have access to a wideband/narrowband, and have been a victim a thousand times over of really stupid "Ustaad" electricians. The latest being so bad that my entire wiring fried. However, let bygones be bygones, and the wiring is new now. All is well now, but I was really trying to fine tune my 2JZ, hence the question:

What sensory inputs are responsible for making the 2JZ run rich/lean apart from the following at a bare minimum:

1- MAP Sensor
2- Primary O2 (Oxygen) Sensor
3- Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor

I am assuming all other sensors contribute to calibrating timing/controlling knock etc more than air/fuel management.

Am I correct in this understanding? For example, I always thought the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) would contribute to a rich/lean mixture. However, I have found out that it will not most likely, its more for signalling to the ECU on when to change gears in a automatic transmission vehicle.

Your thoughts? Any 2JZ gurus?

Best.
Rao Hamid.

[SpoonMotorSports]

Salaams to all. I have never really spent anytime on this part of the forums. Usually hang around the 4x4 forums, but this thread got me interested. Would be great if you cheetahs could help.

I have a 2JZ-GE VVTi in my Pajero. I don't have access to a wideband/narrowband, and have been a victim a thousand times over of really stupid "Ustaad" electricians. The latest being so bad that my entire wiring fried. However, let bygones be bygones, and the wiring is new now. All is well now, but I was really trying to fine tune my 2JZ, hence the question:

What sensory inputs are responsible for making the 2JZ run rich/lean apart from the following at a bare minimum:

1- MAP Sensor
2- Primary O2 (Oxygen) Sensor
3- Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor

I am assuming all other sensors contribute to calibrating timing/controlling knock etc more than air/fuel management.

Am I correct in this understanding? For example, I always thought the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) would contribute to a rich/lean mixture. However, I have found out that it will not most likely, its more for signalling to the ECU on when to change gears in a automatic transmission vehicle.

Your thoughts? Any 2JZ gurus?

Best.
Rao Hamid.

WAS
the following sensors in any efi engine will be the reason for richening/leaning the fuel One way or the other
1-Map Sensor
2-O2 Sensor
3-Engine coolant temperature sensor(richening/leaning fuel on a cold/warm startup) as required
4-IAT(intake air temperature sensor) richening/leaning fuel on cold/warm intake temperatures as required

[I]These are the sensors in EFI engines that hold themselves responsible for altering the fuel
thankhyou
[/I]

[raohamid]

Thanks a lot for your response. I am wondering if the IAT you are referring to is the same thing as an IACV (Idle Air Control Valve/Sensor)? Please clarify.

Regards,
Rao Hamid.

WAS
the following sensors in any efi engine will be the reason for richening/leaning the fuel One way or the other
1-Map Sensor
2-O2 Sensor
3-Engine coolant temperature sensor(richening/leaning fuel on a cold/warm startup) as required
4-IAT(intake air temperature sensor) richening/leaning fuel on cold/warm intake temperatures as required

[I]These are the sensors in EFI engines that hold themselves responsible for altering the fuel
thankhyou
[/I]

[SpoonMotorSports]

Thanks a lot for your response. I am wondering if the IAT you are referring to is the same thing as an IACV (Idle Air Control Valve/Sensor)? Please clarify.

Regards,
Rao Hamid.

Idle control valve

Intake air temperature sensor