Hybrid Members plz...Civic or Prius?.....need suggestion

[lse1]

Just test drove both Prius and Civic. To be honest, I would say they should take off the tag of 'civic' from the hybrid because it is not what you expect of it. Think of the drive of alto, and that is what you get from Civic Hybrid.

Prius was really good, nice feedback, 1.8 (drive the 2011 model) and really enjoyed it! I would say Civic Hybrid is emprorers new clothes, looks nicer but really poor to drive!

[xsxd]

I already quoted the solution, it needs a proper parts and repair channel, you cannot throw parts at a prius and expect to repair it. Speaking of which if you say that in 5 years you dont need to repair your car - you are wrong, if you damage your car in any sense or way or shape - would you keep on driving it because 4 or 5 years have not passed?

Our country still is stuck with obsolete technology and we see no sight of development, we have no emmissions laws or safety mandates, 90% of the drivers in Pakistan have no idea how their car works - perfectly acceptable as they are not required, but the mechanics who are REQUIRED TO KNOW it dont even know it. They still try to "test lamp" every wire in the car, try to apply a fix everywhere instead of finding the correct solution for it. They dont even invest in correct new tools.

You expect them be repairing hybrid cars? I had a car repair shop in Pakistan and had a few hybrids roll in (imported by very eemaandaar businessmen) as slightly used - they had problems in the HV system. When diagnosed and given the parts list they said - bhai koi sasta tareeqa batao ya koi jugaar kardo, I showed them my jugaar of them signing the release form, paying the diag fee and asking them to drive their car away.

So until the time the car's respective manufacturer explicitly declares that they are undertaking repairs for such cars and will provide all the parts for it - its not worth the hassle unless you buy an entire working car as spare parts and know of someone who can actually diagnose and repair the faults, Aftermarket diag tools usually dont work on these cars.

lol @ "test lamp" ... there's this guy who re-wired an ecu in front of my eyes and tested it using the test lamp strategy

i too love the idea of a hybrid... however... ...

[bhatti555]

Ok!
Doesnt any one has the sense to buy the parts from Ebay (i.e. if you dont have any connections with people who can import the parts from junkyard abroad).

Parts are not an issue, be it Transmission, ECU, Battery, Engine parts. I dont even want to talk about cosmetic parts. Heck! its the easiest to get them with some connections.
Worst come to worst, Entire Engine can be bought on Ebay for a reasonable price which is well within 100K.
All you gotta do is get a nice mechanic to fit it. And believe me, fitting is not an issue especially if you are replacing the whole thing and not repairing it. I know a couple of good mechanics/electricians who are smart enough to do it.
And all this is a backup plan, thats if incase, by the time the Prius has issues and the parts and technology is not available in pakistan easily.
Hell! on internet you can find the entire repair plans! Which century are you guys living in? You can get anything done. Especially with a Car that is in the top 3 best selling car in the World, A Car that is getting way popular not only in Pakistan but the entire world. People are not going to ditch it, but accept it.
Imagine yourself to be scared of buying or using a mobile set 20 years ago, thinking that what will happen if it gets broken, Who will repair it? People did learn the technology even here in Pakistan when the occasion called for it. They will learn about this too as it is not a comfort or luxury. Its a necessity in order to save fuel and cost. I personally will save around Rs. 120K+ per year using this car, let alone the comfort and luxury of driving a Japanese car. And if after a couple of years, if it demands maintenance job of upto Rs. 100K or little bit more, then why not?

And please dont say that it will break down the first year round, even with used or re-conditioned car. The life of the car and battery is 200K miles, thats 320K Kilometeres. 100K miles is the warranty from Toyota. thats 160K Kilometeres. I dont remember ever keeping a care and driving it for more than 100K Kilometers. So the probability of it breaking down in a year or two is extremely low. And small issues like AC and all, OH PLEASE!!!! Do a proper research in the market for Electricians and mechanics.

And still if you want to just turn your face and be ignorant to all these facts, then so be it. Those who have the brains and knowledge will find a way and get through it. Infact they are buying the Hybrids now and enjoying. So those who still are scared and are chicken, just sit back in your locally assembled expensive piece of crap, excuse of a car, and join the Hybrid club when you grow up.

As for those who want to go for it. Remember! As the number of Prius grows in the Pakistani market today (Like it is growing), the demand will be higher, and there has never been a demand in pakistani market that has not been met.
Ciao~!~!~

[capsat]

ebay does not ship to Pakistan -

in case it arrives any city of Pakistan by some 'means' it is withheld at customs for payment of duty & applicable taxes before it reaches your place.

[fwdcars]

Go For Prius,

I Have Driven Both Hybrids Prius is the definite winner,

Plus I am selling 2 Prius,

so buy a Prius, preferably from me

haha

Umar:
0333-6776888

[bhatti555]

Ok. What you are saying is not entirely accurate. Its a misconception that below 60 it runs without petrol and above 60 it runs on petrol. There is a whole science to it. I have some documents that can help you. If you want i can email them to you.

[bhatti555]

It will still be cheaper. And like i said, a little connections can help. Some good mechanics can help you get the parts from abroad. Even some good showroom people can help you get the parts. Like i said, its not a big issue. You just need to know how to get them.

[capsat]

remember the car is 97% electrical 3% fuel - lately a Prius broke down @ super highway with an alert and total display gone red in terms of power flow chart. Car was im-mobilised & towed to KHI - The ECU code pulled identified as electrical transmission fault. User & the show room which sold the car took it to Toyota Western - DHA, 3 days and an estimate of 375,000 for transmission only labour & replacement 100,000 extra if confirmed with 50% advance 5 weeks delivery.

Prius or any Hybrid cannot be fixed at local or even at Toyota workshops so conveniently.

• out of every 10 Prius sold in Pakistan 8 are tampered & repaired in terms of body work & meter readings I would highly recommend member SHARABHI's help & assistance to buy a Prius in this respect - after Xulfiqar the Guru I have great respect for SHARABHI - as car seller / importer -

[Xulfiqar]

bhatti sbYou have completely missed the point - Pakistan is not part of the world you are talking about, You can sing about ebay and everything all you like and diss all other inferior liquid fuel engine cars but face it - if you buy a used (meter tampered) Prius and are merrily travelling down the highway in Sindh with your family - getting overly orgasmic that you literally moving for motorcycle fuel money - and break down with a transmission fault (or something of similar magnitude) - you will not be happy with footing the bills for

towing (it needs to be flatbed) - highway towing is expensive
parts cost (expensive when you convert US dolla to Pak rupee)
labour cost (and no warranty of work later on)

Unless you have discovered some underground workshops that are chopping Prius and selling you brand new parts for it in Pakistan and somehow ebay is supporting Pakistani sourced transactions and also shipping here - please keep the dream to yourself.

We have had a fair share of cars in Pakistan, the Fiat Uno diesel was very economical to run (It was also locally supplied), the reason you dont see them anymore is that there is no support for it, It requires a bit more tools than an average mechanic in Pakistan owns - and we Pakistanis will always choose the cheapest solution no matter what happens.

Ever wondered what went wrong with Ssangyong vehicles?? they are running pretty well elsewhere except Pakistan, in Pakistan they use toieta 1KZ deezal injun or nowadays due to miscalculated running cost are running toyota JZ series (sedan) engines.

[alqasim]

Any hybrid thing uses two different sources to operate any thing can be hybrid, in this car it uses gasoline engine along with hybrid battery I mean it runs through electric motor also. By using these two sources it gives good mileage

[themann4u]

i will suggest to go for honda civic hybrid because i have heard that honda centre have also started the maintaines and started to sell civic hybrid parts...... in lhr they have also started to sell these hybrids bt this is not confirm news.......

[CrashD]

Honda insight is much better contender now its unknown but fuel economy and eco drive is much better to drive then prius and honda civic even its different and parts are more available coming in from japan and UK battery are available from ?600 and engines already for ?700 of honda civics hybrids!

[toyota.prius]

My views are based on past Six months of using a Toyota Prius
1) 22- 24 km/l with A/C and 25-27 km/l without A/C
2) Much more comfortable and spacious than Corolla and even Reborn (cabin space)
3) So far it has not created any un-usual problem, or maintenance work.
4) I believe doing the usual maintenance should be enough. The very idea of creating a Prius was reliability and low cost (both of running and maintenance)
5) Too early to comment on parts etc.

[arsh247]

Guys, search youtube.com for prius videos and reviews. Do some research on your own, try googling. Also visit hybridcars.com then click shop by technology link at the top bar.

Also, I found a test conducted by the a U.S. organization (forgot the full name but it is on the internet). They tested batteries of 2002 Prius (when it was brand new) and a 2001 Prius with 200,000 miles (320,000km). They found no problems with the hybrid batteries. In fact both vehicles were giving about the same mileage average. Only a minor difference of less than half mile was recorded.

So go for the Prius. Also, for your information, The U.S. model Prius battery is Guaranteed for 150,000 miles (240,000km) against defects. I guess, Japanese models has similar or higher quality production. So, the batteries will last more than ten years before you ever need a mechanic or to replace these batteries. (You can find videos on youtube to replace the Hybrid batteries).

[Xulfiqar]

Guys, search youtube.com for prius videos and reviews. Do some research on your own, try googling. Also visit hybridcars.com then click shop by technology link at the top bar.

Also, I found a test conducted by the a U.S. organization (forgot the full name but it is on the internet). They tested batteries of 2002 Prius (when it was brand new) and a 2001 Prius with 200,000 miles (320,000km). They found no problems with the hybrid batteries. In fact both vehicles were giving about the same mileage average. Only a minor difference of less than half mile was recorded.

So go for the Prius. Also, for your information, The U.S. model Prius battery is Guaranteed for 150,000 miles (240,000km) against defects. I guess, Japanese models has similar or higher quality production. So, the batteries will last more than ten years before you ever need a mechanic or to replace these batteries. (You can find videos on youtube to replace the Hybrid batteries).

The warranties you are talking about do not work in Pakistan, toyota does not honour those, secondly US driving style is not the same as Pakistan, we have gridlocks of traffic for miles and extreme tropical climate. A better test would be if the french or italians did it in summer.

I do know of repairs - but the problem is that you need new items to repair it - lets take the cooling system for the HV system, you cannot ask radiator waala or A/C waala to repair its coolant pump. You cannot buy it separately either. Or take the A/C compressor, its electric - if it grenades itself to death you cannot apply a jugaar to it - neither bypass it correctly as it runs off the HV system too. Yes its a good car - but so are Subarus - why do you think they are not popular in Pakistan? They are tough as bricks carved from volcanic rock.

[arsh247]

The warranties you are talking about do not work in Pakistan, toyota does not honour those, secondly US driving style is not the same as Pakistan, we have gridlocks of traffic for miles and extreme tropical climate. A better test would be if the french or italians did it in summer.

I do know of repairs - but the problem is that you need new items to repair it - lets take the cooling system for the HV system, you cannot ask radiator waala or A/C waala to repair its coolant pump. You cannot buy it separately either. Or take the A/C compressor, its electric - if it grenades itself to death you cannot apply a jugaar to it - neither bypass it correctly as it runs off the HV system too. Yes its a good car - but so are Subarus - why do you think they are not popular in Pakistan? They are tough as bricks carved from volcanic rock.

I believe, a driver must know his/her car more than the mechanic.

The warranties you are talking about do not work in Pakistan, toyota does not honour those, secondly US driving style is not the same as Pakistan, we have gridlocks of traffic for miles and extreme tropical climate. A better test would be if the french or italians did it in summer.

I do know of repairs - but the problem is that you need new items to repair it - lets take the cooling system for the HV system, you cannot ask radiator waala or A/C waala to repair its coolant pump. You cannot buy it separately either. Or take the A/C compressor, its electric - if it grenades itself to death you cannot apply a jugaar to it - neither bypass it correctly as it runs off the HV system too. Yes its a good car - but so are Subarus - why do you think they are not popular in Pakistan? They are tough as bricks carved from volcanic rock.

Apologize for the confusion. I never said warranty transfer from any other country to Pakistan. My point was, a renowned company offers 10 years warranty means, the company is confident that they made a quality car and components and its model won't tear apart at least for the warranty period.

Let us think of a real life situation. How many times have you been to a mechanic for the conventional car? Or how often do we have to go to mechanic for our conventional cars? Let me share my personal experience. I have Toyota ALtis 2006 model M/T (bought brand new, never installed CNG still running on petrol). I have never been to a mechanic for my car. All I have to do is change oil and filters on schedule. My car still gives an average of 10km/ltr. Remember, made/assembled in Pakistan car.

On the other hand, Prius is a Japanese made/assembled car. I think it can go a long way than any Pakistani vehicle (quality comparison) if the engine oil and filters are changed on schedule.

I believe, the driver should know his/her vehicle more than the mechanic. Pakistani drivers problem is, they think sitting in the driver seat is all for driving. NO......No.......No...... Sitting in driver seat, pushing gas pedal and brakes is not all the driving. It is a bitter reality that we do not read owners manual that comes with all models/makes? (if not available then you can always find it on the internet). This is one of the main reason that we look for the mechanic even for minor DIY (do it yourself).

@ Zulfiqar, As far that 'IF' is concerned it can happen to any car, even the brand new you just drive off a dealership. Why a French or Italian test is more authentic? Per my knowledge, the weather doesn't have significant affect on this vehicle, unless a model is specifically designed for low temperatures such as UK Models.

[Xulfiqar]

yes - just like I said the Subaru cars made by Fuji Heavy Industries Japan are known to the Nokia 3310 of cars, I have seen them in such conditions that they were smelling of manure by being used on farmland for years, still they were excellent running cars.. Any other car of the world would have been recycled a long time ago but for some reason in Pakistan they were branded as failed after 2 years of use.

Yes you are right the biggest fault is our drivers who think of cars as toasters, put bread in push button wait for toast, no toast - CAR FAIL HAI.. Then they get to ustaad jee who requires some new parts, owner gets some quotes which are north of his budget, so the car is subjected to cheap jerry rigs or complete change outs.

The long warranty you are discussing can only be suitable where the car is being sold. Just like the early Nissan CVT problems, they also had warranties that were quite long but Nissan had to foot the bill for change out of a great number of CVT units in their early cars - They later got Jatco (the manufacturer of the trans) to sort this out with a small sacrifice of fuel consumption. On paper they had the thing worked out perfectly and in the old style they almost never did a change till it ran out. But that does not mean that everything is dead on perfect. The warranty nowadays is a net to capture customers in the US, take Hyundai e.g. they give 160,000 kms 10 yr warranty on their vehicles by default since a long time, Even way before than Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru were giving. Did that mean their cars were better?

[arsh247]

I'm here to share Prius driving experience.

I test drive a Civic hybrid about 10 days ago. Nice smooth ride but fuel consumption isn't attractive enough (slightly better than Altis 1.8). I think car is under-power a 1.3L engine is not enough to pull a full size sedan. I like the comfort and smooth ride.

Now I have been testing Toyota Prius for the last 3 days. Its been amazing car. Spacious, comfort and enough power to give it a quick pick (compared to Civic Hybrid). Front/Rear seat leg room is excellent. You won't see such leg room in any Pakistani similar category models. The leg room was checked by 2 persons, both 6 feet tall. One person sitting in Driver seat and other in the back seat (behind driver) both were comfortable with leg room and head clearance.

Now the most important part is fuel consumption. Vehicle starts on battery and you will not hear the engine start-up. Also, Engine stops when idling.

Fuel prices going up this week again (abt Rs. 112/ltr.). Prius has the most economical fuel consumption among, Altis, Belta, Civic. So far I travelled about 200km within city. The avg fuel consumption displayed on the screen is 19.3km/ltr. - that is almost double the Altis/Civic consumption. Driving at constant speed (without cruise) of 60km/h Prius batteries were pushing the vehicle. At slower speeds (15-25km within slowest traffic route the vehicle operated on battery. However, when battery charge drops around 25% the petrol engine starts again to charge the battery. FYI, Prius engine charges battery up to 70% remaining battery is charged through braking system. Yes, batteries also charge when you apply brakes in Prius.

Today, I did a test drive on Highway travelled about 30km at fuel consumption rate of 31km to 35km/ltr. at speeds of 70 to 85km/h. I will upload the test video on youtube (after the service is restored). Overall its an excellent car based on fuel economy. Of course it was built for the purpose.

Plus, I am working on a project to train the technicians here in Pakistan. I intend to import Prius engine with battery to train technicians. After all Hybrid is the future. I hope Pak assemblers will also introduce hybrid cars in near future. We are energy starved country and rising fuel prices is another reason that we need this technology here in Pakistan.

[capsat]

you need educated people to work upon hybrids if you succeed as mentioned in your last paragraph, or they may die of heart failure while working on a Hybrid because of high voltage spike. according to my Japanese neighbor a user of Inuds Imported Toyota Prius working for Hino Pak - Prius work bay shall be 3 mm thick bitumen floor and car is to be clipped with Ground lugs from 3 different spot for safety of work crew.

[Xulfiqar]

^^ All hybrid cars have such take off points for the ground lugs - The other problematic bit is the supply of parts and testing procedures. We are talking about repairing Priuses, We Pakistanis could not figure out how to relieve the MB 722.6xx transmission fault codes - most just say - yeh computer kharaab hogaya hai.. lol

Its a very long evolution into that realm, which will take a complete redesign - working with cheap tools and trying to apply fixes will lead to failure. Was taught that a long time ago.

yes the concept of Hybrid is very good but what good is worth if you dont get support even from the producer.