ID this Jeep Please

[LakersFan]

Hey guys

So, I've been confused about the whole CJ5's in Pakistan deal for some time now. It is to my understanding that CJ5's were made here as well, under the Naya Daur name. But, how do you tell them apart? How do you tell whether your CJ is American made, local made, a Chinese import, or just a modded M38a1?

For example, the picture I'm attaching is of a local military junkyard. The Jeep in question is most probably military, but its a RHD, and has the Jeep logo...which M38a1's don't. Could it be possible that the military has been using the "Jeep" CJ5 instead of the military-spec M38a1? and if so, where is this RHD variant made...locally or outside the country?

And more importantly, how do you tell a Naya Daur apart from a foreign made CJ5?

Any help is appreciated.

[LakersFan]

Anyone?

[supraman2jz]

Bump to help a brother out.

[fouadhafeez]

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that the M38s with the Pak Army underwent a series of modifications, a while back. The weapon carriers (RR Jeeps) stayed LHD, but the general use Jeeps were converted from LHD to RHD, and received different powerplants, too.

Again, to the best of my knowledge...the Army hasn't used CJs over the M38s. Although I could certainly be wrong. Will try and gather more information about this aspect, and post soon.

[LakersFan]

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that the M38s with the Pak Army underwent a series of modifications, a while back. The weapon carriers (RR Jeeps) stayed LHD, but the general use Jeeps were converted from LHD to RHD, and received different powerplants, too.

Again, to the best of my knowledge...the Army hasn't used CJs over the M38s. Although I could certainly be wrong. Will try and gather more information about this aspect, and post soon.

Yes, please do...I'm really confused about this entire issue

But, you said that the Army hasn't used CJ's. The Jeep in the picture is a CJ, not an M-38...but what type of CJ5...a local Naya Daur variant, an imported RHD version, or an M38 with some sort of a CJ body? I also remember my granddad, a retired Colonel, saying that he was once given a CJ5 by the Army for personal use. This leads me to believe that CJ5's were in fact used by the Army. Perhaps not as a war vehicle, but for the personal use of officers.

Do let me know your thoughts on the matter, and any info you're able to dig up.

[PKTUN]

yeah jeep CJ 7 ki copy hai jo ki bhutto ka dour mai Shahbaz k nam sai national motors nai Iran k collaboration sai assemble kari thee 1st time after industry was nationalised shahbaz & victor vauxhaul cars ka plant tha

[hsumbal1]

Agian I am not sure but it seems to be a pre 76 CJ5 which replaced the M38A1.

The question is that how come it is RHD?
That has been answered by Fouadhafeez. May be it was converted to RHD.
From the Speedometer Dial it looks like a CJ5.

[PKTUN]

IRAN JEEP

[LakersFan]

yeah jeep CJ 7 ki copy hai jo ki bhutto ka dour mai Shahbaz k nam sai national motors nai Iran k collaboration sai assemble kari thee 1st time after industry was nationalised shahbaz & victor vauxhaul cars ka plant tha

Great find man, and the link you posted was pretty cool. I guess you learn something new every day. But...

...the pic I've posted is not a CJ7, its a CJ5...you can tell by the cut of the door and the short wheelbase.

Also, the Shahbaz jeeps you've posted don't have the Jeep logo on them, they're not "Jeeps" just copies I think. The pic I've posted has a "Jeep" logo.

[LakersFan]

Agian I am not sure but it seems to be a pre 76 CJ5 which replaced the M38A1.

The question is that how come it is RHD?
That has been answered by Fouadhafeez. May be it was converted to RHD.
From the Speedometer Dial it looks like a CJ5.

So now you see the predicament I'm in. :P. I don't think its a a 76 CJ, or a 75 for that matter. You see, after 1970 the gas tank on the CJ5 was taken to the back, and this one has one mounted under the seat a la pre 1970 CJ or M38a1. As for the RHD, I really don't think this is a conversion...the steering column looks really neat, and the LHD side seems to have a dash and ornaments that look factory-spec.

Any other views?

[syedmusa104]

looks like a straight up CJ5 to mejust my 2 cents

[hsumbal1]

So now you see the predicament I'm in. :P. I don't think its a a 76 CJ, or a 75 for that matter. You see, after 1970 the gas tank on the CJ5 was taken to the back, and this one has one mounted under the seat a la pre 1970 CJ or M38a1. As for the RHD, I really don't think this is a conversion...the steering column looks really neat, and the LHD side seems to have a dash and ornaments that look factory-spec.

Any other views?

From 1976 onward the CJ5's Fuel tank was moved back. This was the year when CJ7 was rolled out.
The Difference between a post 1976 CJ5 and CJ7 was the wheel base.
CJ7 was 10 Inch longer. And a post 76 CJ5 had a different Steering column just like a CJ5

So I think(though I maybe wrong) that the jeep in picture is an early 70s CJ5.

Lets hope that Gurus from IJC step up and slove the mystery.

[has_tal]

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe that the M38s with the Pak Army underwent a series of modifications, a while back. The weapon carriers (RR Jeeps) stayed LHD, but the general use Jeeps were converted from LHD to RHD, and received different powerplants, too.

Again, to the best of my knowledge...the Army hasn't used CJs over the M38s. Although I could certainly be wrong. Will try and gather more information about this aspect, and post soon.

as ar as i think converting to RHD is a bit complicated proces and our army would not do such things... coz army also has some of their rules. so its better to keep them LHD rather than converting them and spending such moneY
thats my point of view,maybe i dont know very well.
i have this idea as seeing the current situation that army is auctioning old jeeps and shifting to new ones!

[LakersFan]

From 1976 onward the CJ5's Fuel tank was moved back. This was the year when CJ7 was rolled out.
The Difference between a post 1976 CJ5 and CJ7 was the wheel base.
CJ7 was 10 Inch longer. And a post 76 CJ5 had a different Steering column just like a CJ5

So I think(though I maybe wrong) that the jeep in picture is an early 70s CJ5.

Lets hope that Gurus from IJC step up and slove the mystery.

I know its a CJ5 and not a CJ7, but that's not the real problem. Are you sure that the fuel tank was shifted back in 1976? As far as I know, AMC, due to certain regulatory requirements, shifted the tank back in 1970, not 1976.

[javedmir]

I don't know about the Jeep but one thing is sure that i am a LAKER 4 Life!

[LakersFan]

Bump! Anyone have any idea?

To sum it up:

1. In my opinion, this isn't a post 72 CJ - the gas tank was shifted back sometime after 1970
2. This is probably one of those Ranger auction CJ's - the blue ones.
3. The RHD conversion seems factory to me.
4. I've gotten to know that this could be one of several M38a1's modified to look like CJ5's and then sold to the Rangers, only to be auctioned off soon after. Could someone corroborate this?

[SuhaibKiani]

I am not entirely sure how you can tell a late model M38A1 from an early model CJ5 (probably search the net to find some thread or the other)....

From what I understand the Pak Army ran and auctioned both these. From the color and the little black air pressure marking on the rear, I would think its an army auctioned vehicle and either one of the two. Would not think it really matters much either way whichever one of the two.

The soft top bars are definately modified or rather badly modified and I would think that the vehicle has seen some civilian use or abuse of sorts....

The early Pakistan assembled/imported Bhutto era models I have come across have a "Nishan" tag (in urdu) on the side and probably back too. I forget if they retain a Jeep logo or not.....

[dms664]

This picture is orig available on this link
Pirate4x4.Com - View Single Post - Jeeps in Pakistan... A continuing thread.

From the front it looks like this somehow

it looks like a CJ5 not naya daur as it carries the jeep logo
n yes its an army vehicle due to that 3 in black with yellow bg sign painted on the right fender

For more study visit this link:
Jeeps in Pakistan... A continuing thread. - Page 18 - Pirate4x4.Com

I think in this pic its back to life

[SuhaibKiani]

OK ! Its an Army auctioed M38-A1 for sure....

[LakersFan]

I am not entirely sure how you can tell a late model M38A1 from an early model CJ5 (probably search the net to find some thread or the other)....

From what I understand the Pak Army ran and auctioned both these. From the color and the little black air pressure marking on the rear, I would think its an army auctioned vehicle and either one of the two. Would not think it really matters much either way whichever one of the two.

The soft top bars are definately modified or rather badly modified and I would think that the vehicle has seen some civilian use or abuse of sorts....

The early Pakistan assembled/imported Bhutto era models I have come across have a "Nishan" tag (in urdu) on the side and probably back too. I forget if they retain a Jeep logo or not.....

Hmmmm...this is some sort of military dumping ground, so the vehicles are in fact, military owned (or were military owned). The Jeep doesn't seem to have a "Nishan" logo. The "Jeep" logo looks post '75 though.