Idling the Cars

[sk_020]

I have got about 2 minute of drive in residential streets before reaching main road, i dont idle any of my carz.

I drive my 2.0d saloon in first and 2nd gear at max 30kmh before reaching the main road(diesels dont like to idle much also) and my khyber in first and second at maximum speed i can do by pulling choke only and on cng i drive smoothly at max 30kmh before i reach the main road or before petrol in bowel is consumed when switching to cng after first start in morning. is this the enuff or do i need to warmup more????

Are you sure?

[escape]

I prefer to start my car for a few minutes in the morning before i start driving, not an expert on cars but the car feels better after idling for a while....

[usman_arooq2]

sure about what????

[GoodMan7]

sure about what????

he gentleman wrote that diesel cars dont need to idle. And on that point other gentleman asked "are you sure".
Its my comprehension after reading above posts.
By the way, diesel cars NEED MORE idling for better functionalities. And especially in pak. where fuel quality is surprizingly substandard.

[dms664]

The leak happened from the water body. And it was so minute whole to pass 1 drop per second. But as the engine's functioning temperature is above 100C, hence all the drops continuously coming out from it, were evaporating in the fraction of seconds and there was not a single drop on the floor underneath.

What is minute "whole" ?

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[Xulfiqar]

he gentleman wrote that diesel cars dont need to idle. And on that point other gentleman asked "are you sure".
Its my comprehension after reading above posts.
By the way, diesel cars NEED MORE idling for better functionalities. And especially in pak. where fuel quality is surprizingly substandard.

The guy would be starting the engine 4 hours earlier then, diesel engines dont generate enough heat at idle to warm up.

[GoodMan7]

The guy would be starting the engine 4 hours earlier then, diesel engines dont generate enough heat at idle to warm up.

always have to read some "taunts" in your posts. But anyway, though if they dont produce enough heat, but even then machinery needs to be warm up well upto its working temperature.
Even many diesel engines cannot be turn off quickly after driving. Once came back from driving, its always good to idle the diesel engines for couple of min. before turning off the switch. Especially in busses and trucks.

[omarabdullah022]

always have to read some "taunts" in your posts. But anyway, though if they dont produce enough heat, but even then machinery needs to be warm up well upto its working temperature.
Even many diesel engines cannot be turn off quickly after driving. Once came back from driving, its always good to idle the diesel engines for couple of min. before turning off the switch. Especially in busses and trucks.

To warm up your engine manufacturers install a THERMOSTATE VALVE which is usually kicked out in pak. It ensures that your engine stays at optimum operating temperature.
Suppose I have a corolla 2.0d...
What good would it do to idle it before switching it off? The engine will stay at the exact same temperature even if you idle for an hour.

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[Xulfiqar]

always have to read some "taunts" in your posts. But anyway, though if they dont produce enough heat, but even then machinery needs to be warm up well upto its working temperature.
Even many diesel engines cannot be turn off quickly after driving. Once came back from driving, its always good to idle the diesel engines for couple of min. before turning off the switch. Especially in busses and trucks.

the idle down after a hard run is to idle down the turbocharger. in normal operation it spins to 100,000 rpm and shutiing it off immediately can damage it if the turbine rpm is too high and oil supply is cut off. it wont matter with an na engine

[Teeboyuk]

the idle down after a hard run is to idle down the turbocharger. in normal operation it spins to 100,000 rpm and shutiing it off immediately can damage it if the turbine rpm is too high and oil supply is cut off. it wont matter with an na engine

Hasn't forced flow fixed this problem.

[Xulfiqar]

Hasn't forced flow fixed this problem.

The VNT slows down the turbo quite rapidly at idle to ensure prevention, but still it can cook as the engine shuts off the temperature spikes for a moment.

[Teeboyuk]

That's true I haven't seen turbine failure for some years..normally its bad oil feed... Wrong oil..old oil.oil seals...factory defaults ...

[ehalin]

My hilux's manual specifically recommends idling upto 2 minutes depending on prior load on the engine for cooling down the turbo charger before stopping. Idling in non-turbo diesels is not required. And this is also true that heat generated during idling is not sufficient to heat up a diesel engine to its normal working temperature in reasonable time. You may have to idle a diesel engine upto 15 minutes or more which in my opinion is shear wastage of fuel. Idling for just 10~15 seconds is enough for most of the year climate in Pakistan and then drive with a light foot until engine is warmed up.

[GoodMan7]

What is minute "whole" ?

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sorry for the typo.
Minute should be read as "Mynute" (Mini, small, tiny)
Whole is actually "hole".
Thanks for pointing.

[mianaasim]

@goodman7

Instead of arguing for the sake of argument, Please put the things in perspective for a layman. As per my very little understanding of machines

1- Every engine (PDM or JDM) has to reach a certain temperature to perform on optimum levels.
2- This temperature level can be achieved in both ways i.e idling or driving with very lite foot.

Its upto you what you prefer. If you are a power freak then go for idling option and after idling put your vehicle in gear and floor it baby. But if you are a calm driver, just start driving your car with a lite foot after cold start and when it reaches optimum temperature levels you will feel all the powers under your foot. This option is less fuel consuming and more economical. (skipping the pollution part for not dragging the discussion to other side)

[GoodMan7]

@goodman7

Instead of arguing for the sake of argument, Please put the things in perspective for a layman. As per my very little understanding of machines

1- Every engine (PDM or JDM) has to reach a certain temperature to perform on optimum levels.
2- This temperature level can be achieved in both ways i.e idling or driving with very lite foot.

Its upto you what you prefer. If you are a power freak then go for idling option and after idling put your vehicle in gear and floor it baby. But if you are a calm driver, just start driving your car with a lite foot after cold start and when it reaches optimum temperature levels you will feel all the powers under your foot. This option is less fuel consuming and more economical. (skipping the pollution part for not dragging the discussion to other side)

Sir,
Pardon me for my poor English because of which I cannot put the righteous emotions or can express explicitly through words.
Ok let me explain.
Can you press the cloths right after turning on the Iron? No. because iron need some time to warm up and then you scroll it on the cloths to press them. Right? I think it’s the most simplest example to give.

[mianaasim]

Here is my point brother:

Reference: Chincago Tribune 21-10-2013 Report by Jenny King

Many drivers use or are tempted by remote start devices that will allow the car to warm oil, clear windows and provide a comfy interior temperature. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggests that whether via remote or actually climbing in and starting the engine yourself, letting a car idle to warm up hurts fuel economy.

“The EPA is correct,” says Tom Anderson, General Motors' global chief engineer for Ecotec engines. “The vehicle's fuel economy while idling is 0 mpg. It is better to accumulate miles while warming up the vehicle to get some positive fuel economy.”

Another victim of idling is air quality. “Emissions such as hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide are typically measured in grams per mile, so it is better to be accumulating miles, that is, doing useful work, while generating any level of emissions, rather than idling at a standstill.” Anderson says.

When the vehicle is driven cold, the more heavily loaded engine accelerates the warmup process and gets the engine to operate with lower emissions more quickly.

[mianaasim]

Reference: Natural Resources Government of Canada (Transportation Initiatives)

Contrary to popular belief, excessive idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to warm it up is to drive it.

What's often forgotten is that idling warms only the engine – not the wheel bearings, steering, suspension, transmission and tires. These parts also need to be warmed up, and the only way to do that is to drive the vehicle. Until the engine temperature begins to rise, it's a good idea to avoid high speeds and rapid acceleration.

Fuel combustion is also less efficient in a cold engine, and the air-fuel mixture is richer - in other words, there is more fuel and less air in the mixture. (The mixture of fuel vapour and air must be in proper proportion for efficient combustion.) The combined effect is a sharp increase in GHG and CAC emissions. On top of everything else, the catalytic converter doesn't work efficiently when it is cold. Therefore it is important to drive the vehicle so that it reaches its proper operating temperature as soon as possible in order to maximize fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.

[GoodMan7]

Here is my point brother:

Reference: Chincago Tribune 21-10-2013 Report by Jenny King

Many drivers use or are tempted by remote start devices that will allow the car to warm oil, clear windows and provide a comfy interior temperature. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggests that whether via remote or actually climbing in and starting the engine yourself, letting a car idle to warm up hurts fuel economy.

“The EPA is correct,” says Tom Anderson, General Motors' global chief engineer for Ecotec engines. “The vehicle's fuel economy while idling is 0 mpg. It is better to accumulate miles while warming up the vehicle to get some positive fuel economy.”

Another victim of idling is air quality. “Emissions such as hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide are typically measured in grams per mile, so it is better to be accumulating miles, that is, doing useful work, while generating any level of emissions, rather than idling at a standstill.” Anderson says.

When the vehicle is driven cold, the more heavily loaded engine accelerates the warmup process and gets the engine to operate with lower emissions more quickly.

In my 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, I've already mentioned that I've gone through loads of such stuff on wiki & other sites and yes they write a lot about such things about environment friendliness, etc. etc.
I drive daily ~45 KM from home/office & back. 2 min. I do idling in morning and same in evening. Totally 4 min.
Now it takes 50 min. to 1 hour for me to drive each side.
So, compare 4 minute idling on 120 min. drive and one can firmly say that this 2 min. idling is not going to hurt our ozone.

[mianaasim]

In my 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, I've already mentioned that I've gone through loads of such stuff on wiki & other sites and yes they write a lot about such things about environment friendliness, etc. etc.
I drive daily ~45 KM from home/office & back. 2 min. I do idling in morning and same in evening. Totally 4 min.
Now it takes 50 min. to 1 hour for me to drive each side.
So, compare 4 minute idling on 120 min. drive and one can firmly say that this 2 min. idling is not going to hurt our ozone.

Pakistan is a free country and you are a free citizen of Pakistan. Its your free will to do whatever you want to do.

My only point is that with modern day technology vehicles and lubricants. One basically doesn't need to IDLE the engine before driving. I only wanted to address the technicality behind the logic of idling.