Installation & Functions of Advancer/Emulator

[irfan44]

I have done the setting on my santro, now at idle the green light is ON, while with acceleration the red light switched ON and green light goes OFF, but now my car is missing a lot, even sometimes I drive on PETROL, on CNG it stalls completely in 1st and 2nd gears, sometimes missing in 4th gear also.

please advice what should I do, there is a jumper switch in the advancer, anything need to be done with that jumper.

These settings r for CIP 4 PLUS and CIP 5 from Tomasetto Lovato (original & Chinese) so please review ur advancer b4 doing anything

[Horse_rider]

Mine is CIP4

and I have done the petrol setting first, and now the performance is best on petrol and CNG as well, slight vibration on CNG when Ideling, But that should be the Gas setting problem because the problem is there even if Red lights is ON always, so will check the CNG setting soon.

thanks.

[Muzi66972]

Too much informative !! Thanks Irfan bhai, I'm regretting this that why I hadn't been to this thread before as i was having so much problem. But when i got negative replies from all sides i did my own work and thus I'm successful. Well your information is all correct !! Thanks again

[irfan44]

^^ u r welcome. I had to do it myself caz of the same reason.

[Horse_rider]

A saw a chhota shagird doing the same setting through small screw driver in a CNG workshop. I think every workshop is doing the same setting, or may be only that one which I saw myself.

[Muzi66972]

A saw a chhota shagird doing the same setting through small screw driver in a CNG workshop. I think every workshop is doing the same setting, or may be only that one which I saw myself.

Not everyone is doing it actually Kisi kisi ko to kaam aata he nahi hai.. Meri gari me ye scene kardiya ke Advancer kharab laga diya and ye scene the ke Gari Cng pe convert hote hi gari ka petrol totally off. Wiring me kuch scene kiya tha, then gari me mene kuch kaam krwaya tha indicators ke fuse wgera ka, jab se gari ne Cng pe problem start kardi.. Then Cng and petrol mix horaha tha as the car was running on cng and the performance i was getting was of petrol
Then Vitz ka advancer para hua tha, wo laga diya mene to gari ab set hogai hai Allah ka Shukar..
Can anyone tell me how to fix the old advancer?

[irfan44]

Not everyone is doing it actually Kisi kisi ko to kaam aata he nahi hai.. Meri gari me ye scene kardiya ke Advancer kharab laga diya and ye scene the ke Gari Cng pe convert hote hi gari ka petrol totally off. Wiring me kuch scene kiya tha, then gari me mene kuch kaam krwaya tha indicators ke fuse wgera ka, jab se gari ne Cng pe problem start kardi.. Then Cng and petrol mix horaha tha as the car was running on cng and the performance i was getting was of petrol
Then Vitz ka advancer para hua tha, wo laga diya mene to gari ab set hogai hai Allah ka Shukar..
Can anyone tell me how to fix the old advancer?

If ur car was consuming petrol with old advancer, but now it's fine. Then ur emulator was faulty or the wiring of injectors was messed up

[Muzi66972]

If ur car was consuming petrol with old advancer, but now it's fine. Then ur emulator was faulty or the wiring of injectors was messed up

Yes the main issue was of the wiring and secondly the advancer :S

[osamanazir]

guzy i have also same problem,,, i have civice 2004 oriel prosmatic,, i hav installed tomasetto for cng. on the back side of device two green lights are always on when car is on cng. after acceleration i remains same. and 4 switches behind the device is off. how i can get best performance to change this setting,, anybody

[irfan44]

Check out the settings on Page 1 & read all replies. U'll find the answer matching to ur problem.

[rag888]

THIS IS APPLICABLE TO ALL EFI CARS WHETHER THEY HAVE A DISTRIBUTOR ON NOT
I have a civic 99. It has an engine with a distributor and rotor, unlike new cars that have Coil over Plug ignition system ( Direct Ignition) without a distributor.
I wanted to install an Advancer/ Emulator in my car but the mechanics were not approving it. as they said that advancer cannot be installed in this car mainly due to presence of distributor.
So i decided to do it myself.
Here is some info about the Advancers & Emulators.

Function of Emulator
It fools the ECU of your car that the injectors are working and the car is running on petrol even when it is running on CNG.
It also saves your INJECTORS from damage as it turns OFF the injectors when car is running on CNG.

Function of Advancer
It Fools the ECU by manipulating the signals to ECU by various sensors. It intercepts the sensor signals & sends corrected/manipulated signals to the ECU so the ECU Advances the ignition timing as per the sensor signal automatically.
Basically it is installed so that ignition timing of the vehicle remains at default settings for PETROL as u drive on PETROL and automatically advances when you convert to CNG, without having to move the DISTRIBUTOR physically.
So the vehicle runs perfectly on PETROL as well as on CNG.

Normal Practice by Local Mechanics
I hav seen many EFI cars w/o advancer & emulator. (My car was 1 of them). Basically the mechs cut out the power wires of all injectors so the injectors wont run on CNG. So if u dont want to mess with the wiring, install an EMULTOR.
They generally dont install an ADVANCER & set the ignition timing as per CNG & say that u normally run ur car on CNG so it is OK. But what if we have to run the car on PETROL. It will have less power, jerks & missing and overall crappy engine when running on petrol, unless u retard the timing by moving distributor every time u convert to petrol & again when converting to CNG.
Note: A single loose wire on an EFI car can BURN your ECU costing u Rs 15000-20000.

Types of ADVANCERS/EMULATORS
1. EMULATOR ONLY
2. ADVANCER ONLY
3. A 2in1 ADVANCER/EMULATOR

Installing an EMULATOR only is no problem. It normally has a blu wire which is connected to the blue power wire of CNG Kit solenoid in the engine compartment. The black wire is grounded with body & the original holders of injectors are pulled off & plugged into the plugs of EMULATOR & Holders on emulator wire harness are plugged into the injectors. DONE ( A 5 Minutes JOB)

Installing a 2in1 ADVANCER/ EMULATOR
I have seen many different brands but most of them are local made with chinese chips. Dont worry even they have different varities. a good chinese 1 will do the job. As in my case i bought a TOMASETTO LOVATTO NEW CIP5 in Rs 1800.
You only have to get correct wiring harness along with it according to your cars brand.
The Only wires which you have to find out are the wires from your MAP/MAF sensor & TPS (throttle position sensor)
These wires can be found with the help of a voltmeter. You have to find out the wire that gives variable signal to ECU b/w 0-5 volts.
An easy way to find out the wires is to download the servive manual of ur car if u dont have it already by google. the manual will tell u the location of both sensors ant the wire u need to know.
Just cut the Signal wire of MAP/MAF sensor and connect with the device wiring as per the diagram below. then find wire of TPS but dont cut it, only peal it a little & connect the yellow wire as per digram.
Connect the BLUE wire to power 12v of CNG solenoid.
Ground the black wire to the body.
Connect the holders of fuel injectors as described above
& U R DONE.

Now if u have an oxygen sensor then connect it as per previous procedure. most old cars dont have oxygen sensor. Otherwise leave oxygen sensor wiring untouched.

Now switch ON the IGNITION. No lights will be there on the device. Now start the engine and switch over to CNG. The lights on the device should turn ON.
Description of LEDs
RED (right most) is the indicator for ADVANCE ACTIVATED. it should turn ON when u press the accelerator only.
GREEN (2nd on right) should be on when idling and not accelerating. the red light will be off at that time.
Forget abt the remaining three lights on the left if u have not connected the oxygen sensor.

FINE TUNING
1. Now its time for fine tuning ur system. Let the engine run till the time it reaches its normal operating temperature or the radiator fan turns ON.
2. Get your timing light if u have one & set the ignition timing on factory default by moving the distributor if required. THE TIMING MUST BE SET TO FACTORY DEFAULT & ENGINE RUNNING ON PETROL (NOT CNG)
3. If u dont have timing light then go to any mechanic & tell him to set the original timing on petrol. just a 5 minutes job. Should be free.
Now turn ur engine OFF & set the 4 switches on the device as under
1. ON (down) (OFF for standard advance on all speeds, ON for Dynamic advance as per the vehicle speed)
2. OFF (UP) (Only works if oxygen sensor connected)
3. ON (down) (Only works if oxygen sensor connected)
4. (UP) ( down for adjustable advance and UP for standard advance)
5. Now Start ur engine & switch over to CNG. The lights should turn on.
6. At idling, only green light should be ON, when accelerating, only red light should be ON. If it is like that then u r done & enjoy the ride.
7. If the red light is always ON or turn ON after increasing lots of acceleration then adjust the advancer with the help of a turnable swith inside the RIGHT MOST HOLE beside the red light.
8. Let ur engine idle & insert a small screw driver into the hole & turn the screw fully right or left until the Green light turns ON. Then very slowly move it in reverse direction until RED light turns on. Now at this position move it slightly back so that the GREEN light is ON again but dont move any further.
9 Now the setup should be like this:
- Green light ON when idling on CNG
- RED light must turn oN when u start pressing the accelerator.
Everything is done & ready. ENjoy ur ride on PETROL as well as on CNG alike.

Advantages which I Got
1. The low power situation on CNG was solved.
2. Car runs smoother on CNG as well as petrol w/o missing , jerks etc
3. More mileage.
4. Solved idling problem on CNG
5. Bogging/ low power till 1500 rpm vanished. i can now move the car with AC ON even in 2nd gear from hault.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT.

First of all thankyou for providing us with such comprehensive info. Only if we had more good people like you here.

Coming over to the issue; I own a Mitsibishi Lancer GLX 2006. It is a wonderful car but off late i observed that it was losing power on CNG and knocked if I would take it off from a cold start on CNG, however it would be alright on petrol or after i drove it on petrol for 5-10 minutes or when the engine will reach optimum temperature.

A mechanic told me that i have problem with may crank and cam sensors though i had read my ECU many a times and these sensors never showed up.

A few days back I went to another mechanic and when i told him the problem he said that I might be having a problem with my advancer. Having said that I was able to get hold of a working advancer and when i replaced it, voila! The car started flying again. Improvements:

No knocking after cold start.

I cant feel the difference if i turn the AC on or off.

No difference between petrol and CNG at all!

However, i have a few questions:

• How to go about the lights on the advancer, this one which i replaced for testing has its red light permanently on. I will try to adjust the advancer with a screwdriver as you have instructed. In the old advancer, the 1st and second green lights were on, but then the first green light will shut and the red will lit, even if the engine was idling. The same thing repeated even when the mechanic tried to adjust it with a screwdriver, and thus he announced that the advancer has gone bad.

• Most importantly, how to go about the 4 little buttons on the advancer? Your post, though self-explanatory has confused me as on some other thread here i saw a post by you where you have given a different setting for the buttons. Please explain.

In the old advancer, only number 2 button was ON (down). Now if number 2 button has connection with the O2 sensor then as per your post, number 3 button should also have been ON and it was not. Please give me as much info as possible because i know the mechanic dude will not be knowing anything about it. Ofcouse Mit Lancer has an O2 sensor, right. (pardon my ignorance).

• Lastly, i have to return the advancer i took from someone, so can someone tell me how much would a Tomasetto CIP 4 plus advancer cost and where can i find the original one in Karachi.

Thanking in advance(r)

[rag888]

:::bump:::

[shawn52]

Great Information Shared by you thanks for this,....

[FaatehRehman]

@irfan44
For Platz most on pakwheels are recommending Landi Renzo advancer (STAP 100/2). Can a Tomasetto be adjusted like that?

Secondly how to exactly connect oxygen sensors to advancer. Platz has two , should we intercept there signal wires. Will it solve the check engine light problem?

And is the air blockage must ? i think it has right type of venturi.

And what about no.2 and no.3 switch if oxygen sensor connected?Do we have to try different combinations?

[shereabdullah]

i own a cultus vxr(non efi),, can i install advancer/emulator in it???
does it also improves acceleration while ac turned on??

[umarkhan1]

i own a cultus vxr(non efi),, can i install advancer/emulator in it???
does it also improves acceleration while ac turned on??

STAP 00B is already installed in Cultus VXR if its a FF CNG.Its basically a retarder which retardes the ignition timing when we use the car on petrol.

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[jehanzeb109]

I own city IVTEC. Last time i noticed that car cng adjustment is bit out. I took it to cng mechanic. Apart from adjusting cng from "T" he also announced that my emulator/advancer is not working properly. To prove his point he installed tomaseto emulator advancer and asked me to have test drive. Well drive was better than before but i was unable to ascertain that either it was because of cng adjustment or because of new emulator advancer. So i just asked him to install my previous emulator/advancer.
Later on i checked that i hav CIP 4 emulator and its red lite is continuously on both on idle and on acceleration . I tried to adjust it from its potentiometer but it didn't work.
My queries are
1. Is this fault for real & and i have faulty emulator advancer ?
2. Quoted price of tomaseto emulator advancer was 2000/- is it justified ?
4. What would be difference in performance n in economy of fuel should i expect after changing ?
5. Is it repairable ?

Thanks in advance

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[jehanzeb109]

Bump..

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[irfan44]

I own city IVTEC. Last time i noticed that car cng adjustment is bit out. I took it to cng mechanic. Apart from adjusting cng from "T" he also announced that my emulator/advancer is not working properly. To prove his point he installed tomaseto emulator advancer and asked me to have test drive. Well drive was better than before but i was unable to ascertain that either it was because of cng adjustment or because of new emulator advancer. So i just asked him to install my previous emulator/advancer.
Later on i checked that i hav CIP 4 emulator and its red lite is continuously on both on idle and on acceleration . I tried to adjust it from its potentiometer but it didn't work.
My queries are
1. Is this fault for real & and i have faulty emulator advancer ?
2. Quoted price of tomaseto emulator advancer was 2000/- is it justified ?
4. What would be difference in performance n in economy of fuel should i expect after changing ?
5. Is it repairable ?

Thanks in advance

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

If u cant get get ur advancer to adjust properly then yes it is faulty.
Secondly the price he is telling u is alright but is 4 a chinese advancer. the original one is CIP 4 PLus/advanced. CIP 5 is not genuine as the company doesnt make a CIP5. but it works alright.
the price of original is around 3500.

[irfan44]

@irfan44
For Platz most on pakwheels are recommending Landi Renzo advancer (STAP 100/2). Can a Tomasetto be adjusted like that?

Secondly how to exactly connect oxygen sensors to advancer. Platz has two , should we intercept there signal wires. Will it solve the check engine light problem?

And is the air blockage must ? i think it has right type of venturi.

And what about no.2 and no.3 switch if oxygen sensor connected?Do we have to try different combinations?

yes, try different combinations & try giving acceleration. keep the combination which doesnt giv u a check light.