Inverter Type AC in Pakistan (Inverter/Non Inverter Dedicated Discussion)

[horticulturalist]

10 k is horrible

[krafiq]

You have 2 choices
Save money today, pay 1500 for ordinary installation. Ruin your 100k worth equipment which will never perform upto it's full potential, you will curse the company, later on cooling c coils will develop leaks due to mixing of air and corrosion and in 2 seasons your equipment will go KAPUT.

Second choice is to go out of your way to find professional installers with proper vacuum pump, not the fridge compressor type pump, pay them extra(a member recently got it done in 3000/- from Dawlance), but he had to request them as he had Gree unit. This will ensure no mixing of air with refrigerant, 100% chill performance, low electricity expense, savings, long term protection of your investment/equipment.
Also if you go through the manual, it says vacuuming is mandatory not optional.

[Mirr]

At the moment, I got a technician in that has hopefully managed to repair my existing AC, so I am deciding to put off buying an AC until after this season ends. Hopefully get a new one in December/January in preparation for the next summer season.

The technician took the internal unit down, used an air pressure pump and a meter, as well as a tub of water to find a leak. He found no leak inside or outside, and all he did ultimately was top up the gas, replace the compressor running motor capacitor (different from a compressor start motor capacitor), and a full cleaning/servicing.

Considering the expense, and the installation headaches of installing inverter ACs, I will stick with a conventional AC (non inverter) because in the event that it starts developing problems 3-4 years later, and the company tells me they don't have the parts to repair it, at least I'll be able to get it repaired from a local shop. This happened to me with my current AC which the Haier officially told me they could not repair, they didn't have parts for it because it was a discontinued model. Whether he was lying or not, I don't know.

I have noticed a SEVERE shortage of 1.5ton conventional non-inverter ACs in Lahore. Hard to find any right now because this is peak season after all. Salesman lie and tell you people don't want convetional ACs anymore, but I don't believe them at all.

Pakistan is a poor country, I just don't believe that people are refusing to buy a 65k non inverter 1.5 ton AC in favour of a 83k-100k 1.5 ton inverter AC. I just don't believe that people are switching over to the inverter ACs in droves.

Let's hope my existing AC keeps running and at least gets me through this Summer. It is the only AC we have running, and it is for my mother who is having medical problems, and needs the AC which is why having a working AC is so critical. I personally don't use an AC, and just tolerate the heat, but this is not possible for my old mother who has medical health problems.

Thanks for everyone that responded to this thread. All the info was very helpful.

[Mirr]

You do have a third choice, too. Get a conventional non-inverter AC and avoid the problems of installation, and PCB boards going bad, and etc. Pay more in electricity bills, but if you only use the AC for two months of the year, it's fine.

Also, as another user here stated that ACs are now being made of poor quality as disposable commodities, which I tend to agree with (because selling more ACs = more profit), and if you need to repalce an AC after 3-4 years, than the extra cost of the inverter AC becomes cost prohibitive.

[mgalaxy3]

10 k is horrible

And this is exactly the reason why no installer does proper vacuum installation for home users.

Because they never want to pay the right charges and deserving rate.

Vacuuming is a long process and 10k though a bit on higher side, is absolutely a justified price for a professional installation.

[zeus65]

sir ji, jis jagah pe vacuum pump us fridge compressor ko bolte hain or jab call center, service center or email pe unko bolo ke wo banda bhejen jinke pas proper vacuum pump ho or wo ignore karen, to akhir banda kia karay?
it seems like we have to ultimately invest in vacuum pump n manifold or just bear the losses in the long run.
tough call for some.

[zeus65]

do share about the purchase and results.

[horticulturalist]

If 410 gas ac installed through purging, is it possible to do vaccuming after 1-2 season use?

[matifkhan]

No. Vacuuming and purging should not be linked to inverters or non inverters. Vaccuming should be done for all, irrespective of regular or inverter. If I have understood correctly, your arguement rests on the fact that inverters mostly use blends while conventional ACs use pure / single component referigerants. In any case, purging won't have any meaningful effect on ratios in the blend. R 410 is blend, 50/50 w/w of R 125 and R 32. In an expermental study, 50% of 1 kg cylinder of R 410 was allowed to escape and remaining 50% (we can imagine the ratios in this 50% would have been terribly disturbed by now) was topped up by pure (proper mix) R410A. It had 17% effect on COP. There is probably a published paper too on this. You see, 50 pc is a lot and ratios would have been severly disturbed in the remaining 50% in cylinder, yet COP got affected by 17%. In purging, you'd be merely flushing out a few grams. So, performance wise, its a non issue. That said, if not for anything else, environmental damage alone is more than enough of a reason to DISCOURAGE purging. R410 has GWP of 2088 CO2 equivalent so you can well imagine.

inverters don't use blends only. R32 is a single component referigerant, just like R12, 22 and its use in inverters is increasing.

As regards moisture, corrosion and subsequent damage, IMHO that would be same for all whether inverter or non inverter and whether blend or pure.

Regards,

[krafiq]

No. Damage is already done.

[krafiq]

My basic argument is that vacuuming method is mentioned in the user manual for inverters. I have gone through user manual of conventional R220 ac, did not find any mention of vacuuming.
I will plead ignorance on purging causing damage to environment/adding to global warming.
I'll check more in AC user manual literature if it says that vacuuming is must for conventional ACs too.

[krafiq]

While purging, ratio getting disturbed is not the problem. What I have learnt from this forum is that R22 gas is inherently different from R32 and R410. Their compressors are different, their PSI are different and they react differently to atmospheric conditions as compared to R22. It's PSI being 60-65 whereas inverter works at 130PSI. Since technology has changed, what used to be the practice cannot be carried on

[xzap042]

R410 has GWP of 2088 CO2 equivalent so you can well imagine

I wish installers had some grey matter to understand such things. There should be strict laws and punishment for such things but govt is run by idiots.

Just to elaborate, 1 gram of R410 causes global warming equivalent to 2.088 kg of carbon dioxide. You can imagine the impact it has on our environment. 1kg is a lot of carbon dioxide and I mean a LOT.

[ch.talal]

While purging, ratio getting disturbed is not the problem. What I have learnt from this forum is that R22 gas is inherently different from R32 and R410. Their compressors are different, their PSI are different and they react differently to atmospheric conditions as compared to R22. It's PSI being 60-65 whereas inverter works at 130PSI. Since technology has changed, what used to be the practice cannot be carried on

PSI or compressor design is not an issue because R22 compressors could also be made to work at different speeds with frequency manipulation.

Kenwood has just recently introduced a floor standing Inverter air conditioner with R22 gas.

Could you people believe that these imbeciles introducing inverter ACs with R22 whose production is already stopped in half of the world and pretty soon it will be phased out completely.

When I enquired about this why they are using R22 now in an inverter AC they were just speechless that confirmed me that these people think people with money would buy anything just looking at the brand name.

[SER_GTR]

World Is Shifting To R32 And They Are Introducing R22 inverter units.. great..r22 is good though but it would be obsolete in upcoming years....

Must Be Some leftover stock of compressors somewhere which they purchased in cheapo and might sell it here and the discontinue it all of sudden...

I appreciate Haier in technology advancement as their all new units are already R32 based and they get rid of even R410a..

[anc]

issue at the moment is availability of R32 gas, its expensive and rare in our market same as was the case when inverters were introduced with R22. But eventually R32 will take over market, i think due to covid its taking bit longer.

[ch.talal]

R32 is much better than R410A which is the blend of two gases (R32 and R125). If the ratio of two gases get disturbed HVAC system fails to perform at its peak performance.

But R32 has high discharge temperature so a bigger condenser is required to cool it down. So R410A systems can't be filled with R32 unless condenser is upgraded.

I am sure production of R410A will never be phased out completely so its availability will not be an issue in future.

[dms664]

So R410A systems can't be filled with R32 unless condenser is upgraded.

so r32 can be filled in r410 systems if the condenser is big?

[matifkhan]

R410A is in phase down stage due to its high GWP. R32 is also an interim arrangement may remain mainstream for a shortest period of most referigerants. Better alternatives are already appearing on horizon. R290 has GWP of 3 but its flammability is a major concern. I think Godrej in India had been using it in its ACs. In other news, Daikin may also start replacing R32 as early as 2023. So, its all happening pretty fast now.

[rajaahmed96]

Daikin already has R32 units available internationally since long time.