Khyber - Performance after Complete Engine Overhaul

[DUDE007]

@speedster_101
What quality/price seals you got?

Was the gearbox opened to change shifter seal?

Do cam, crank and rear man seal need engine to be removed to replace them?

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[Xulfiqar]

Last time the engine of my SA-310 was overhauled in 2008. Now it is overhauled again in 2016, after almost 8 years.
The car was reducing engine oil, though 20W50 was being used. As the seals were also leaking, it was not clear that engine oil was getting reduced by oil leakage or due to oil consumption. The smoke was occasional. So in Oct 2015, I changed all the seals (cam, crank, rear main seal), clutch n pressure plate, clutch bearing, timing belt, timing bearing etc. Gear shifter seal was also replaced as gear oil was getting leaked.
The leakage for both (engine oil and gear oil) was stopped after that, but the car was still reducing engine oil. I wanted to get the engine overhauled in winter, plus I had to complete my MS thesis before that, therefore I waited till January 2016.

if the cylinders are ovalled and the crank is damaged along with the cam and rockers - the above mentioned oil is what killed it.

A well kept suzi G10 engine blows out its valve seals - this happens due to using low quality seals and running the head hotter than normal. Before teardown a compression and oil pressure test could have shown you accurate diagnosis that if your engine actually needed an overhaul.

In my experience - as mentioned above the usual failures were simply valve seals and tappet cover breather. Both of these lead to huge oil consumption and blue-white smoke.

[DUDE007]

@xulfiqar is it possible to have a noticeable increase in low end torque if the valve lash is kept a little looser than spec? I have read online about people performance tuning through valve lash on flat/roller tappets but no idea if they ended up burning the valves.

So is it a good idea or are there other ways to increase low end torque?

Car is khyber.

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[Xulfiqar]

@Xulfiqar is it possible to have a noticeable increase in low end torque if the valve lash is kept a little looser than spec? I have read online about people performance tuning through valve lash on flat/roller tappets but no idea if they ended up burning the valves.

So is it a good idea or are there other ways to increase low end torque?

Car is khyber.

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loose tappets will clatter a lot and will wear out very quick. The valves wont burn as burning happens from valves not closing fully (jammed tappets) - Low end torque is not simply a tappet or toon job.

Go over everything on the engine, adjust to factory specs. Including distributor (if the centrifugal advance is sloppy the engine will feel like a dead honda 50 pulling 4 milk bottles)

[usman_arooq2]

loose tappets will clatter a lot and will wear out very quick. The valves wont burn as burning happens from valves not closing fully (jammed tappets) - Low end torque is not simply a tappet or toon job.

Go over everything on the engine, adjust to factory specs. Including distributor (if the centrifugal advance is sloppy the engine will feel like a dead honda 50 pulling 4 milk bottles)

how can we set distributor advance properly on khyber? i believe mechanic messed it up and even disturbed some springs.

[speedster_101]

How many miles did it run in 8 years

The odometer was stuck for around 3 years. When it started working, the car traveled 70,000 KMs after that.

[speedster_101]

@speedster_101
What quality/price seals you got?

Was the gearbox opened to change shifter seal?

Do cam, crank and rear man seal need engine to be removed to replace them?

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I once changed the cam and crank seals and for that engine was not removed.
But in Oct, 2015 the engine was taken out of the car, gear box was separated and then it was sent to machinist. I do not know how he changed the shifter seal. But the mechanic told me that he has changed two seals. Shifter seal and top seal.

The following three pictures were taken in Oct 2015 when seals work was carried out.

[speedster_101]

if the cylinders are ovalled and the crank is damaged along with the cam and rockers - the above mentioned oil is what killed it.

A well kept suzi G10 engine blows out its valve seals - this happens due to using low quality seals and running the head hotter than normal. Before teardown a compression and oil pressure test could have shown you accurate diagnosis that if your engine actually needed an overhaul.

In my experience - as mentioned above the usual failures were simply valve seals and tappet cover breather. Both of these lead to huge oil consumption and blue-white smoke.

The camshaft and rockers were perfectly okay, however cylinders needed boring. The size went to 1.00 from 0.50
About crankshaft, the main end and big end bearing went to 0.50 size from 0.25. Does it mean it was damaged?
The Thrust collar/washer new and old size is 0125.
Why do you think that 20W-50 oil damaged the engine? It was old API SG, suitable for these engines.

[speedster_101]

Coming back to engine overhaul. Last time I bought parts from Waseem autos, Saddar, Rawalpindi and many members told me about his high prices so this time I bought all the parts from Koh-e-Noor Traders and I find his prices less than Waseem.

ART Pistons: Rs. 2050/-
Big and main end bearing: Rs. 1150/-
Thrust collar: Rs. 250/-

NPR Piston Rings: Rs. 1450/-

Fuji Valves: Rs. 1500/-

KANSAI Valve Guides: Rs.350/-

MUSASHI Valve Seals: Rs. 300/-

GMB Water Pump: Rs.1250/-

ARX Timing Seals: Rs.300/-

KGK Overhauling Kit: Rs.1000/-

SANKEI Temp Sending Unit: Rs.260/-

[ahmed2396]

Next time don't use 20w50. Use delo 15w40 else sgo 10w40. Replace pcv valve also.

[speedster_101]

Next time don't use 20w50. Use delo 15w40 else sgo 10w40. Replace pcv valve also.

Why not 20W50?
I have checked the PCV valve, its good.

[speedster_101]

Cylinders boring.

Installation of valve guides and setting of valves.

[U]Head Resurfacing

[/U]

[ahmed2396]

Why not 20W50?
I have checked the PCV valve, its good.

50 weight is quite heavy. 40 will be good. Tried and tested. Delo in these old flat cam cars and they last very long.

[speedster_101]

50 weight is quite heavy. 40 will be good. Tried and tested. Delo in these old flat cam cars and they last very long.

Actually the user manual of SA-310 recommends API SD, SE and SF. These oils are not coming anymore.
Havoline is API SG but its 20W-50. The thinner oils are API SM/SN.
Last week I bought 2 packs of SGO Premium (3L and 4L), its API SG. I think its the only 10W-40 oil coming in API SG.

[ahmed2396]

Actually the user manual of SA-310 recommends API SD, SE and SF. These oils are not coming anymore.
Havoline is API SG but its 20W-50. The thinner oils are API SM/SN.
Last week I bought 2 packs of SGO Premium (3L and 4L), its API SG. I think its the only 10W-40 oil coming in API SG.

I know. This oil and Delo are the options, but delo really cleans out engine very well and has more zddp then this oil.

[DUDE007]

I know. This oil and Delo are the options, but delo really cleans out engine very well and has more zddp then this oil.

Does delo come in 10w40? I have only seen 15w40 version.

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[ahmed2396]

Does delo come in 10w40? I have only seen 15w40 version.

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Delo comes in 15W40 and its fine to use all over a year. Delo has better additive package then this oil. 15W40 or 10W40 are good for these old suzukis

[speedster_101]

Head and engine block were cleaned before sending them to machinist but they were cleaned again thoroughly before putting them together.

[speedster_101]

Assembling the parts back into the engine.

[speedster_101]

The metal pipe connected to water body was full of rust, reducing its diameter. We bought a new pipe along with other spare parts on first day but it was of Suzuki Margalla. Mechanic was reluctant to go and exchange the pipe but I said no way I am putting back the engine with the old pipe. Finally he went and exchanged the pipe.