Kia-Lucky Motors launches Grand Carnival

[nickatnite]

If you expect a Rio to sell for 1.5million then how come Suzuki is selling a compact hatchback, the Celerio for 1.5 million plus in your market?. Is Rio the same as Celerio?

[usman19854]

Rio is more like a competitor to swift while Picanto is the competitor to celerio, though we still get decade old swift that balances out the difference between swift and celerio anyway.

New automakers are going to get a 10% duty reduction on the kits they import for local assembly in early years so it's possible that Kia products won't be as ridiculously priced as Suzuki's are here. I expect a decently specced Rio between 1.5-1.6 m.

[nickatnite]

Kia is entering the indian market too and no car is going to be released until it pushes out of the massive factory they're constructing in south india for domestic market and for export.Kia's sister concern Hyundai is already established in india and manufactures approx. 750,000 cars each year for domestic market and export. If Kia was serious about the pak market they will have never had a local partner and allowed the local partner to sell cars they can import under the govt, scheme at exorbitant prices. Tell me i'm wrong because in india Hyundai and Kia are run by Hyundai and Kia.

[usman19854]

It depends on confidence a company has on a particular market, unfortunately Pakistan is still a very high risk market compared to India. It's similar story in most of middle East, most brands in UAE are partner with Al-Futtaim. Shouldering the business with a local player also shoulders that risk if it doesn't turn out the way you expect it to be, good news is that the local partner is one of Pakistan's largest business conglomerates and has a strong footprint in the country. As for the prices, they've launched only 1 vehicle ATM and it's pricing is way better than what existing players are offering at that price point so we can't comment on pricing unless the locally assembled units arrive.

Also having a local partner doesn't mean that the business isn't run by the company itself, all the existing Japanese automakers in pakistan have local partners but there's a good fraction of Japanese directors on their BOD's

[nickatnite]

Hyundai lanched the Accent initially in the US and it got to where it is now in that market.The Accent was a 4500 dollar car at that time. Hyundai launched the Santro in India and now is the 2nd largest carmaker in the world's 4th largest car market.The Santro was a 3-4lac car in india. In pakistan Kia launches a 50lac plus car defying conventional logic and the same sense of deja vu is sinking in ala Vitara, Kizashi, Audi was going to build a plant in pakistan acc. to PW scribes and so on if you know what i'm saying. Defies conventional automotive logic.

[usman19854]

They're trying to build a market presence before they can start local manufacturing which isn't possible before mid 2019, they realise that 11 new automakers are starting operations in pakistan and they need to have a setup already in order to get it easy once the production starts, they cannot though have showrooms without a product so they've launched one that they're probably not going to manufacture locally, I expect Picanto and Rio to be the first vehicles to roll out of their Pakistani production line and they're the cheapest ones they have in their current lineup.

[alam2632]

Could it be the Political reasons? PML-N era just ended and maybe just for a publicity stunt they might have forced the manufacturer to roll-out some CBUs just to publicize that in their tenure International automakers invested a lot and etc.
Just an assumption, though! But the quiet launch of an unexpected vehicle for Pakistani Market really questions their mindset.
Apart from assumptions, it really is a welcome change though. At least we would have options in the future Inn Shaa Allah!

[wasiqshahab94]

As much as i dislike the noonie goonies, that assumption is way too farfetched to be even pondered upon. Let's not blame the politicians for every little thing. They have bigger things to be worried about.
I think we should give kia-lucky a chance, see what they can do to shake up the market.
At the end of the day, Us consumers will be the beneficiaries.

[alam2632]

Yeah, I'm not blaming though! Yes they have bigger things to worry about but when elections are on the verge of happening you can expect anything from'em! My assumption was laughable but it's the way things work around here.
But for the fact that new automakers are at least introducing something, it is worth appreciating and the way we give multiple chances to the same man in politics, we should also give chance to the new automakers and try new cars and that's the only way our market will grow!

[pwuser149263468783]

I swear that optima is such a beauty and a beast at the same time

[pwuser150428366789]

not defying,, improvising with the tools available,, they are allowed custom free imports of about 100 cbu only for testing the market,, how could they import a RIO which would start to sell like a hotcake and then they'd have to bear the custom duties for every other CBU,,.. still they are a year behind for the production,,
KIA wasnt supposed to be launching anything before 2019,,, but they have launched something to sound an alarm that they are here,,, now be patient and the rest is yet to come....

[MGK]

So in continuation of my last post on this thread. I think this van can do very well in the commercial line also if anybody is looking to setup a luxury transport service in Pakistan as many motorways have been completed then this van can do wonders. So here is a free idea for you, if any transporter runs it between M2 only and considering it 11 seater less 1 driver so 10 passengers, if you charge 1500 per person for a one way trip from lahore to isb or vice versa you make 15000 per trip, maximum 5000 expenses of fuel and miscellaneous you save 10000 net profit for one trip and if you happen to do up and down trips i.e. 2 trips in a day then 20000 per day multiply it by 30 days a month you make 6 lacs less one or a two lac more for driver salaries, maintenance, office expense or if you have a web or app etc still 4 lac a month per van is not bad. You can choose route of your choice, many motorways have been completed, but your best best would be north side where most of the passengers look for such services. I will be your first customer.

[Porsche_Maker]

I consider it as a best possible MPV for family needs more thn 5 people as it can take the people and some luggage. KIA is very capable car and can handle local conditions.
But may be if they brought this car on 3-4 Million segment could be more successful. As Suzuki APV did a very good sale in initial time period and price was just right for many to buy it as commercial usage vehicle as well.

[Hitlersaab]

office

Would you prefer to pay Rs.1,500 and travel in this van having 11 seats configuration?? Think twice and then answer. Will the comfort level & leg room be equal to bilal or daewoo bus??

If not, & most of the people will say no, then its Return on Investment is negative.

If yes, still you can't earn Rs.10,000 per day because its engine is 3.3 liter and would hardly do 5-6 km per liter. So fuel cost will be atleast Rs. 5500 from Isb to lahore. What about other expenses? For example you pay approx 1500 as toll for passenger van and 500 per trip as driver salary. Add adda tax and other ghunda gardi taxes & driver lunch of approx Rs. 1000. Total cost so far = Rs. 8500

So, you save Max Rs. 6500 per day which is highly unlikely IMO as you may not be able to run the vehicle whole 30 days with all 11 seats booked. No? Anyways, you earn Rs.195,000 per month.

Now what about wear & tear? You would have to change the tyres every 5 to 6 months & 18" tyres won't cost you any less than Rs. 50,000.

Adding all other expenses like routine servicing & maintenance, You would be able to save Max 180,000 per month with a lots of ifs & buts. The biggest if is if you will be able to sell tickets at 1500 per seat, especially last two rows??? .

Conclusion: Despite of all the hopes & optimism, Kia Carnival with 3.3ltr v6 engine is NOT a practical car for Pakistan. Period!

I would agree with @nickatnite that either kia or lucky group is not serious in this business or have very bad market research team

[pwuser150790203591]

Not a bad business team, I can assure you of that. They have taken away executives from toyota indus and honda atlas and have hired best of business graduates from country's top business schools i.e lums and iba.
Their office in karachi super cool btw. Why would anyone who isn't serious will invest in a manufacturing facility? do you know how much that costs? if they were not serious they'd have just leased an assembly line from someone like gandhara. Non serious players like chevrolet, landrover etc have done that in the past.

and imo they know carnival isn't a mass market car, thats why they have launched it only as cbu as they know it won't be crossing that 100 unit import limit anytime soon.

[asharab.butt]

Bro please you actually think that just because this has a 3.3 v6 it will have bad fuel economy? Please check international models. Even a mclaren 675lt returns around 8 kmpl on highway. This is new tech which will mean better fuel efficiency. Just do a Google search and you will know the fuel consumption.

[asharab.butt]

Anyone who thinks that the carnival can be used commercially is wrong. This is a minivan. Its supposed to cater to a larger family that cant fit in a 5 seater car. In most developed countries these are used by young parents who have multiple kids.

[pwuser150790203591]

pakistan should enforce seating laws, a 5 seater car shouldn't be allowed to carry more than 5 ppl as its unsafe. See how minivan sales increase then !

[Hitlersaab]

Bro please you actually think that just because this has a 3.3 v6 it will have bad fuel economy? Please check international models. Even a mclaren 675lt returns around 8 kmpl on highway. This is new tech which will mean better fuel efficiency. Just do a Google search and you will know the fuel consumption.

Well dear here is a link of the real mileage of Kia Carnival which shows its real mileage between 6 to 9 km/ltr:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/kia/grand_carnival/all

Even if I take 8kmpl which is highly improbable in Pakistan, still fuel cost will be around pkr5000 for lahore-isb one sided journey. And my main arguement was not its fuel cost but will you be able to get enough passengers at pkr 1500 per seat? My answer is dtraight No. A van is a van no matter how luxury it is.

[usman19854]

Can work good with rentals though.