Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[wasim625]

@whiteangel @talhawaleed @ishtiaq778

The battery is on 14.7 volts now and still charging.

There was something mentioned in the AGS paper and in this thread that users reported that battery will be bubbling / gassing in all caps equally. However at 14.7 volts The battery is at room temperature rising and I can't see any bubbling and gassing. Although there are very few air bubbles appearing occasionally in all cells. Is there a problem? Why I can't see bubbling / gassing in the cells?

The thing you are seeing is normal. By the way a battery should not be charged above 14.2 volts.

[wasim625]

@ishtiaq778
Brother i want to buy a constant battery charger for home/personal use. What capacity should i buy? Any brand i should go for? And how much will it cost me?

I have batteries ranging from 10 amp-hr to 200 amp-hr in usage.

[siraj_7]

Dear I was charging batteries for the first time, it is written on AGS pamphlet to charge them to 15V

The thing you are seeing is normal. By the way a battery should not be charged above 14.2 volts.

[asjdsm]

By discharging the lead acid batteries fully, if we mean that we will discharge it to 80% of its capacity which is to its low cut off voltage variable (10.3Volts) then this is good for batteries. lead acid batteries should not be discharged below 10.3Volts otherwise you will end up damaging the unit.

That?s why UPS are tuned to trip off once voltage on battery terminal reaches 10.3 Volts, discharging to this value and then recharging it back is good for batteries.

Sorry, had been away on a vacation trip to Gilgit areas so could not reply earlier.

Is 10.3v cutoff at load or is it at no load ie open circuit voltage of battery?

I bought khushk phoenix ugs 175 ah battery for 11500 and poured my own prepared electrolyte using distilled water From Valley water Co the one in op post.

Sg was 1250.

I poured into the battery and let it sit for 15_18 hours .
Khushk battery open circuit voltage was 0.45 volts.. As soon as I poured electrolyte its open circuit voltage reached 12.45.

Today my ups refused to charge it. After few seconds it would shutdown. I tried booting it like this few times then it started to charge.

Battery was charged for 2 hours.
My ut203 clamp meter was showing 10 amps current at startup. But I had installed a energy meter that measures ac current and watts and power factor and kwh.
It was showing 238 watts ac. And ac current was 1.01amps. Power factor was 0.81, But uni-t 203 showd 10amps.

Don't know if my uni-t meter is showing less current or watt meter is showing more watts or 10a dcx 13vdc =130 watts DC out from ups into battery is equal to 238watts ac into the ups.
No load was connected to ups.

Ups is hec China pure sine wave.

No system restart with this ups even with 25ah ags 175ah battery ( ags 175ah ka cell kharab ho gaya thay and ustaz sa replace kia tha aik cell total capacity srf 25-30ah ho k rah gai thi . after cell replacement.. Before it used to give me 5 minutes runtime at 15ah draw . Poray 8 mahinay chali ha is condition ma. 15ah ka current draw pa ya battery theek 1:30-2 gantay chalthi thi) and still working for that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[talhawaleed]

Is 10.3v cutoff at load or is it at no load ie open circuit voltage of battery?

I bought khushk phoenix ugs 175 ah battery for 11500 and poured my own prepared electrolyte using distilled water From Valley water Co the one in op post.

Sg was 1250.

I poured into the battery and let it sit for 15_18 hours .
Khushk battery open circuit voltage was 0.45 volts.. As soon as I poured electrolyte its open circuit voltage reached 12.45.

Today my ups refused to charge it. After few seconds it would shutdown. I tried booting it like this few times then it started to charge.

Battery was charged for 2 hours.
My ut203 clamp meter was showing 10 amps current at startup. But I had installed a energy meter that measures ac current and watts and power factor and kwh.
It was showing 238 watts ac. And ac current was 1.01amps. Power factor was 0.81, But uni-t 203 showd 10amps.

Don't know if my uni-t meter is showing less current or watt meter is showing more watts or 10a dcx 13vdc =130 watts DC out from ups into battery is equal to 238watts ac into the ups.
No load was connected to ups.

Ups is hec China pure sine wave.

No system restart with this ups even with 25ah ags 175ah battery ( ags 175ah ka cell kharab ho gaya thay and ustaz sa replace kia tha aik cell total capacity srf 25-30ah ho k rah gai thi . after cell replacement.. Before it used to give me 5 minutes runtime at 15ah draw . Poray 8 mahinay chali ha is condition ma. 15ah ka current draw pa ya battery theek 1:30-2 gantay chalthi thi) and still working for that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Its better, if you are writing in English then stick to it as it becomes very difficult to understand once you start writing urdu in English alphabets.

If you have installed the energy meter on battery terminals then all the reading its showing are in error as the meter installed measure AC current as compared to DC which is required at battery terminals.

10.3 Volts is a voltage at which UPS should beep during load shedding and should turn off automatically as we cannot allow a lead acid battery to discharge below this value.

Cut off Voltage at which charging should stop is set between 14.0 Volts to 14.4 Volts maximum.

As I understand, your problem is that you got your battery repaired in past, first process of repairing the battery by installing new lead plates is not a reliable process as there is no guarantee that you would be able to harvest your investment. Secondly, once you get a battery repaired by installing new plates then its alters its amp-hr ratings. Its very hard to guess the new amp-hr,, correspondingly new charging rates becomes different as compared to what was offered to you by the manufacturer.

Once, electrolyte is prepared then it’s very hot, you have to let it sit in her buckets for complete 24 hours before it cools down and should be poured in battery, I hope you did not directly poured it in the battery while being hot then allowed the battery to sit for 18-24 hours as this could instantly kill the battery.

Information which is relevant are, that your dc meter should be connected with batteries and you should observe few behaviors. 1: how long does it takes to reach 14 Volts, 2: when does charging stops, charging rate at different stages, how fast its approaching the cut off voltage, once put into the backup mode then observe the voltages on battery terminals as how fast it drops to 10.3 Volts as this last this will tell you the main problem if issue is with a battery or ups.

you should have hydrometer to further diagnose the electrolyte gravity.

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed @whiteangel

Update: Alhamdullilah volt meter now giving reading of 13.7 volts. I suspect maybe while I was asleep the light might have gone hence the voltage was on 13.5 for long time.

Update: 13.8

Update: 13.9 Volts

I wonder how slow is the constant voltage charger? Its output without battery is 11.3-11.5 volts and when charging the battery it is taking 1-1.5 hours to increase 0.1 volts after 13.5 volts

The ups charged the battery from 12.2 to 13.7 volts in 3 hours. The constant charger has taken 6 hours and charged the battery from 13.1 to 13.9 . Its a 12v 12amp charger.

Update: 14.1 volts and 9 hours passed, its talking too long...don't know what's the matter, another battery is also waiting to be charged currently at 12.4 volts. I am doubting either the constant charger is not 12amps or AGS GX165 is not 135 amperes and much more....

Update: 14.2 volts at 10 hours. I am wondering how does the Car battery guy say in 15 minutes that the battery is charged and Ok for use, the UPS battery guy was telling me he can charge the battery in 2 to 3 hours at 10% AMP-HOUR charging rate to full voltage... LOL... these guys are hacks or what?

Update: 14.3 volts at 10.30 hours

Update: 14.5 volts at 10.45 hours, don't know whats happening, all the resistance gone, battery charging very fast now.

Update 14.6 at 11: 00 hours

Update: 14.7 volts at 11:22 hours

nice to see that you are providing a very good update on voltage at battery terminal at every instant but you should also provide an update on charging rate at that instant which will clear your all the doubts.

reason behind it took only three hours to show you the change in voltage from 11.7 volts to 13.7 volts was that charging rate at start was high but later it has slowed down.

its hard to explain, once you try to climb up the babusar top on your vehicle then down in Chilas you vehicle accelerates more with less throttle open but at top, you have a far more throttle open but experience very less acceleration.

you should not exceed 14.4 volts as i dont know what AGS people says for the first time charging of the batteries but manual and most of the sites does not recommends above 14.4 volts as that is defined as a limit.

[talhawaleed]

@whiteangel @talhawaleed

Salaam bros, my batteries are getting charged as I write this post, I bought a constant voltage charger without any cutoff. Its a simple transformer packed in a metal box.

I need to know that do I charge batteries with caps open or caps closed. I went to buy hygrometer from battery shop today. I saw he was charging a new battery for customer with caps removed (opened)

first time either you can do it with caps open or with caps loosely tied.

[siraj_7]

@ishtiaq778 @talhawaleed

I have charged the battery to 15.1 volts now. The reading is shown on volt meter connected to battery while charger is on. After I turned off the charger, the battery voltage came down to 13.3 by reducing about 0.1 volt in 30 seconds to 1 minute. The bubbling was present there but it was like 3 to 4 bubbles appearing per second ( the speed was not however like when a gasket is bad and a lot of bubbles appear in the radiator neck). Also Battery voltage even at 15.1 volts is room temperature.

Now my question is that has the initial charging completed? Because the 15.1 voltage to be reached for 15 minutes is with the charger on or off? Since the below pamphlet from AGS says that the reading should be consistent for 15 minutes. Now my question is with the charger on or off? Because with the charger on the reading stayed for 15 minutes but when I turned the charger off the reading came down to 13.3 volts in 5 to 10 minutes.

Also I charged to 15V based on AGS pamphlet recommendation, Now I have read from @talhawaleed and @xulfiqar to not go above 14.2-14.4 volts. What do I do now? Would this have caused damage to the battery. I measured SG after charging it was 1270. When I poured it was 1250 (Sourced from Pyro Lahore)

Update: After about 1 hour, the battery voltage has settled to 12.6 volts

[Navqam]

Dear Talha Brother, this is Naveed from Rawalpindi, thanks for the reply. First of all i must clear that i am using a local, made in Karachi "Sun Power" brand UPS with 1350 VA written on it. Total load i need is 3 fans and 6 E/savers (not all together). what battery power suits my requirement?

Please advise me the shop/location to purchase the battery you mentioned in your reply. Also very kind of you to please mention address of Pryo Chemicals in Islamabad. What should i ask the pyro chemical guys to give? Also tell me how to pour electrolyte in the battery. I want to purchase the meter to check electrolyte level and gravity, pls advise one :P. I am not very technical thats why asking for toooo many favors. I will only purchase the battery once your advise is received please.

kind regards,

[Navqam]

forgot to attach your reply...

				[IMG]https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png[/IMG] Originally Posted by Navqam 					<a href='https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/mechanical-electrical/153379-maintaining-ups-car-batteries-post4872549#post4872549'>[IMG]https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png[/IMG]</a> 				
			Dear Talha Bro,

This is Naveed from Rawalpindi. My dear, i am facing some UPS & Battery issue and am sure you can help me out. Presently i have one local "Sun Power" UPS 1000 VA (for 3 fans and 6 E/Savers). Battery installed is AGS GR-165. Two days back the battery went "OFF" dead after 40 minutes backup for 1 fan and 1 E/Saver. It took around 1 complete day to charge again. On next use, it never provided one minute back up. I took the battery (which is 13 months old now) to the dealer, who removed the caps, checked its gravity, on the last cell he told me that the cell is GONE and battery is useless now. He proved it by short circuiting + & - of the battery. A boil was created in that specific cell, even fumes were coming out.

He told me that battery needs to be replaced, and UPS needs to be checked. May be it is overcharging (battery was never noticed swelled) and for many other issues.

Please advise me what to do. My total load for UPS is 3 fans and 6 E/Savers. Please tell me the brand / Specs of UPS & Battery to purchase. An early reply is requested please.

Best regards.

Important Note: Please note that AC Volts (Electricity) from IESCO received varies between 190-200 Volts. In this situation which UPS suits; Local or Homage/Inverex/Luminous type?

[I]Thing is that, you need to verify the charging rate on this UPS, if dealer is saying that battery is gone then I believe that he is telling you the right thing as you just verified that it gave a backup time of one minute. Once, things boils down to one minute then I guess, condition of the battery will be very bad and beyond recovery. Battery can only be recovered, if you detect a problem earlier and before a damage has taken place.

I believe, that you got an imported UPS and most of the imported UPS trickles charges the battery starting from 10 Amperes which you are expected to verify using multimeter along with the cut off voltages. Since, battery installed was AGS GR-165 so that tells me that its amp-hr rating must be grater then 100 AH so UPS setting is not an issue here.

You problem was a bad electrolyte, next time try to buy a phoenix UGS series without their electrolyte and buy the electrolyte from pryo chemicals.

Whenever you use a bad electrolyte then one experiences the same results as you have quoted. Secondly, most of the battery water (de-ionized water) available in market is a fraud. Check the main thread for TDS values of brands which you can buy. TDS value of battery water should be between 0-10. AGS tonic is a good product.

sorry, that was a premature failure. [/I]

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[Ishtiaq778]

@Ishtiaq778 @talhawaleed

I have charged the battery to 15.1 volts now. The reading is shown on volt meter connected to battery while charger is on. After I turned off the charger, the battery voltage came down to 13.3 by reducing about 0.1 volt in 30 seconds to 1 minute. The bubbling was present there but it was like 3 to 4 bubbles appearing per second ( the speed was not however like when a gasket is bad and a lot of bubbles appear in the radiator neck). Also Battery voltage even at 15.1 volts is room temperature.

Now my question is that has the initial charging completed? Because the 15.1 voltage to be reached for 15 minutes is with the charger on or off? Since the below pamphlet from AGS says that the reading should be consistent for 15 minutes. Now my question is with the charger on or off? Because with the charger on the reading stayed for 15 minutes but when I turned the charger off the reading came down to 13.3 volts in 5 to 10 minutes.

Also I charged to 15V based on AGS pamphlet recommendation, Now I have read from @talhawaleed and @Xulfiqar to not go above 14.2-14.4 volts. What do I do now? Would this have caused damage to the battery. I measured SG after charging it was 1270. When I poured it was 1250 (Sourced from Pyro Lahore)

Update: After about 1 hour, the battery voltage has settled to 12.6 volts

Dear, u did a perfect job.......initial charging is complete now..........This reduction of volts of disconnecting charger is normal.......
15V is just for once for equalization of electrolyte ........it has no harmful effect at all...........but after initial charging battery cut off should never exceed 14.4......ideal is 14.2V......

[whiteangel]

@Ishtiaq778 @talhawaleed

I have charged the battery to 15.1 volts now. The reading is shown on volt meter connected to battery while charger is on. After I turned off the charger, the battery voltage came down to 13.3 by reducing about 0.1 volt in 30 seconds to 1 minute. The bubbling was present there but it was like 3 to 4 bubbles appearing per second ( the speed was not however like when a gasket is bad and a lot of bubbles appear in the radiator neck). Also Battery voltage even at 15.1 volts is room temperature.

Now my question is that has the initial charging completed? Because the 15.1 voltage to be reached for 15 minutes is with the charger on or off? Since the below pamphlet from AGS says that the reading should be consistent for 15 minutes. Now my question is with the charger on or off? Because with the charger on the reading stayed for 15 minutes but when I turned the charger off the reading came down to 13.3 volts in 5 to 10 minutes.

Also I charged to 15V based on AGS pamphlet recommendation, Now I have read from @talhawaleed and @Xulfiqar to not go above 14.2-14.4 volts. What do I do now? Would this have caused damage to the battery. I measured SG after charging it was 1270. When I poured it was 1250 (Sourced from Pyro Lahore)

Update: After about 1 hour, the battery voltage has settled to 12.6 volts

The initial charging has been completed. It reached the desired voltage and the reading was constant for at least 15 minutes, so the process is complete. 14.2v is the normal cut-off, when the battery is in regular use. The procedure you did was for initial charge only. Now when you connect the battery to UPS, you should set cut-off to 14.2v.

After you disconnect the charger, the battery voltage will continue dropping. It is normal. When you measure voltage of battery without connecting anything to it, it is called Open Circuit Voltage. It will always be different from battery voltage reading while being charged or discharged. If the Open Circuit Voltage is 12.6 volts after a few hours it means battery is 100% charged.

[wasim625]

@ishtiaq778
Brother i want to buy a constant battery charger for home/personal use. What capacity should i buy? Any brand i should go for? And how much will it cost me?

I have batteries ranging from 10 amp-hr to 200 amp-hr in usage.

@ishtiaq778
Bumpp

[asjdsm]

Its better, if you are writing in English then stick to it as it becomes very difficult to understand once you start writing urdu in English alphabets.

If you have installed the energy meter on battery terminals then all the reading its showing are in error as the meter installed measure AC current as compared to DC which is required at battery terminals.
energy meter was ac based and it was installed in wall socket and ups input was connected to it.it was not conected to battery ...

10.3 Volts is a voltage at which UPS should beep during load shedding and should turn off automatically as we cannot allow a lead acid battery to discharge below this value.

battery open circuit voltage with no electrolyte were 0.45 v .. as soon as i poured electroloyte preparted to 1.250 sg battery voltage reached 12.45 but ups wont charge it .. after few reboots it accepted it ..

Cut off Voltage at which charging should stop is set between 14.0 Volts to 14.4 Volts maximum.
this is china ups and has no charge current cotrol or termination contrle that can be adjusted by user.

As I understand, your problem is that you got your battery repaired in past, first process of repairing the battery by installing new lead plates is not a reliable process as there is no guarantee that you would be able to harvest your investment. Secondly, once you get a battery repaired by installing new plates then its alters its amp-hr ratings. Its very hard to guess the new amp-hr,, correspondingly new charging rates becomes different as compared to what was offered to you by the manufacturer.

this is related to my old ags 175 ah battery whose one cell was dead . others were weak. this ags battery example is given only to give an idea of what this ups is capable of .

i bought new phoenix ugs 175a h battery and had made elctrolyte few weeks ago and was at room temp and poured in battery battery was slightly warm..

Once, electrolyte is prepared then it?s very hot, you have to let it sit in her buckets for complete 24 hours before it cools down and should be poured in battery, I hope you did not directly poured it in the battery while being hot then allowed the battery to sit for 18-24 hours as this could instantly kill the battery.

Information which is relevant are, that your dc meter should be connected with batteries and you should observe few behaviors. 1: how long does it takes to reach 14 Volts, 2: when does charging stops, charging rate at different stages, how fast its approaching the cut off voltage, once put into the backup mode then observe the voltages on battery terminals as how fast it drops to 10.3 Volts as this last this will tell you the main problem if issue is with a battery or ups.

i will observe them.
you should have hydrometer to further diagnose the electrolyte gravity.

yes i have it and after first charge battery sg was 1.24 or 1240-1250

my replies are inline .. hope this will help in making sense of my previous thread. regards.

[siraj_7]

Alhamdullilah Both 135 amp batteries charged to 15 volts with 12amp charger. The first battery took 24 hours, the 2nd took 30 hours. Mainly because of load-shedding in the time of 2nd battery and probable main line voltage drops.

Recommend every one to connect the constant charger on stabilizer because these are based on a transformer and there is no circuitry inside hence they will give 12V only on 220V. Hence to save your time put a stabilizer.

I will never recommend any body to initially charge their batteries with UPS or automatic charger because they cut-off at 13.8 to 14.2 in just 2 to 3 hours (amp-h/10 capacity rating) and that is not enough.

Will post the entire process along with pictures later once I connect the batteries with UPS and the UPS with main panel.

A special thanks to all the helpfull members here for teaching me the correct process.

[princelibra]

Talhawaleed bhai and ishtiaq bhai

My homeage UPS was cutting off at 14.29 and now at 14.24, why???
after full charge it stays at 13.69 and now 13.63, why ???
battery gravity accurately at 1250, battery 4 months ols Pheonix UGC 175

backup time good.... so whats the reason

thanx

shahzad

[racer7]

By default, you will have to replace all the internal wirings of your UPS as this will remove the blinking and shortening issue and after having done this then you will have to tune your UPS.

Terminals normally get hot if they are corroded as very less current is being delivered to the batteries resulting in being hot due to a very small contact area or very high current is trying to make its way to batteries with small contact with terminals.
If above issues are checked and problem remains intact then it may be a problem with batteries.

Anyway, you should have an amp-meter and voltmeter with you and should exactly know the settings which supposed to be running on your UPS like cutoff Voltage, charging rate. Then verify those with meters and see if settings are right or not. There are too many variables involved and they are easy. Purpose of this thread is that you should rely less on technicians and more on your skills, instincts and knowledge. It can be anything, try to diagnose it with meters and if you don?t understand then post results as otherwise its difficult to say anything.

Bro @Ishtiaq778 and @talhawaleedthank you for the detailed replies. I have changed the terminals with the new one and the problem of heating the terminal is gone. Secondly I have found that the fan was struggling very much to move and the transformer of UPS was sounding loud. I checked the transistors, ICs on the board and DPDT relay switch and found the relay switches of my UPS were not working properly. I tested it with the multimeter and mutimeter beeped. So I decided to replace the replays with the new one. Got new relays from Hall road Imtiaz Electronics and installed. The UPS got fit and discharging supply was good and fan and lights were working fine.

Problem: Bros after two days I noticed that within 15 minutes the ceiling fan was gone and the struggling sound may be heared from UPS transformer and the ceiling fan.

I have not sufficient knowledge about the readings that how to deal with this problem and my questions are:

1. How can I check with multimeter that which device in the UPS is faulty so that I may replace it.
2. How can I measure the current supply which is passing through the devices that whether it is sufficient or not for a ceiling fan?
3. How can I test transformer, transistors etc in detail that these are working properly or not?

Waiting for your replies anxiously and thank you in advance.

[Ishtiaq778]

Talhawaleed bhai and ishtiaq bhai

My homeage UPS was cutting off at 14.29 and now at 14.24, why???
after full charge it stays at 13.69 and now 13.63, why ???
battery gravity accurately at 1250, battery 4 months ols Pheonix UGC 175

backup time good.... so whats the reason

thanx

shahzad

Dear, its fine..........UPS providing trickle charging.........of 1 to 3 A to keep the battery fully charged....

[Ishtiaq778]

Bro @Ishtiaq778 and @talhawaleedthank you for the detailed replies. I have changed the terminals with the new one and the problem of heating the terminal is gone. Secondly I have found that the fan was struggling very much to move and the transformer of UPS was sounding loud. I checked the transistors, ICs on the board and DPDT relay switch and found the relay switches of my UPS were not working properly. I tested it with the multimeter and mutimeter beeped. So I decided to replace the replays with the new one. Got new relays from Hall road Imtiaz Electronics and installed. The UPS got fit and discharging supply was good and fan and lights were working fine.

Problem: Bros after two days I noticed that within 15 minutes the fan was gone and the struggling sound may be heared from UPS transformer and the fan.

I have not sufficient knowledge about the readings that how to deal with this problem and my questions are:

1. How can I check with multimeter that which device in the UPS is faulty so that I may replace it.
2. How can I measure the current supply which is passing through the devices that whether it is sufficient or not for a fan?
3. How can I test transformer, transistors etc in detail that these are working properly or not?

Waiting for your replies anxiously and thank you in advance.

Which fan struggling noise?? Ceiling fan or cooling fan installed on back side of UPS???

[racer7]

Which fan struggling noise?? Ceiling fan or cooling fan installed on back side of UPS???

Brother it's the sound of ceiling fan. Also above post is corrected.