Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[NakedTruth]

Talha Bahi, which UPS you recommended which may not reduce the speed of fan and also fan may make noise ???

You have to buy a sine wave or as we say, pure sine wave UPS.

[talhawaleed]

Talha Bahi, which UPS you recommended which may not reduce the speed of fan and also fan may make noise ???

There is a concept which is know an Voltage Waveform and current waveform. These UPS systems have been designed for Resistive Loads. Resistive loads are the where Voltage waveform overlaps the current waveform and resistive loads are bulbs, computers etc. In capacitive loads, current wave form leads the Voltage waveform whereas in inductive loads, current waveform lags the voltage waveform e.g motors such as compressors, fans. Generators have an ability to deal with inductive loads to quiet some extent as you often read rating in terms of Watts and then correspondingly VA. (kindly verify the definition for Inductive and capacitive loads, as its been time I have read and may-not be confusing the leading and lagging behavior.)

So therefore, fans will mostly be an issue on UPS systems as otherwise it is specifically written if it can deal with inductive loads.

[mfdarvesh]

You have to buy a sine wave or as we say, pure sine wave UPS.

Sine UPS also do the same, to some extent, I have checked Ecostar Pure Sinwave UPS

[ToxicDevil]

Can someone tell me the price of 60 amps battery? And which is better Exide or AGS.

[dms664]

Electricity is mostly an issue with third world countries therefore the branded foreign UPS are normally meant for data houses. They work fine but I don’t think they have an capacity to control charging rates as that variable is fixed by manufacturer. Normally cutoff is controlled in branded UPS system but problem comes once you want to attach batteries of higher capacity with UPS systems. You need to check sorts of batteries which can be connected with branded system, AMP-HR ratings recommended on manufacturer manual. These UPS are not meant to last for hours as it only provides you with Ample time to turn off your computers safely.

Load shedding here is very frequent here, sometimes after an hour for two to three hours in stretch. Charging Rates can be very well controlled on DESI UPS systems and adjusted in accordance to your choice of batteries.

Most preferred batteries are liquid deep cycle high AMP-HR batteries but they are not available in Pakistan and can only be imported directly from china. Even Homeage UPS does not have an option to control the charging rates and many users on this thread are facing similar issues.

Controlling charging rate is important so that you can fine tune your UPS system so that it charges its self quickly and in accordance to your batteries AMP-HR ratings so that your batteries be prepared for next cycle of load sheddings. Otherwise in longer run, batteries wont be charged and would die quickly because of remaining in discharged state for longer time and electricity wont be available once you want it. Local UPS systems have an Option to Control charging rate.

P.S: don’t buy old batteries, go for brand new.

in 24 volt homage ups there is no option of charge control but in 12 volt ups there is a button for charge control 15 amp and 20 amp and it carries a green logo of rapid charger on its packing.

[ToxicDevil]

Can someone tell me the price of 60 amps battery? And which is better Exide or AGS.

I bought AGS 60 amp battery. for 4800.
My previous battery was Exide 60AH and it lasted about 2 years. I used to refill it with tap water but I will use distilled water in this new one and see how long it lasts.

[Automotorsport_Lover]

In fact 6 UPS batteries of 200 AMPS which makes a set of three with two batteries each used to give me a backup time of 4 hours under full load once they were brand new. Back up reduces the entire year and once it reaches 2 hours then I normally perform this exercise and again gives me a backup time of 3.5 hours. Provided you have maintained your gravity entire year and never allowed it to go dry.

I also have other equipment connected with this UPS such as three tubes and 2 fans. It?s a local UPS which is available in every house these days.

1) These UPS have a PCB card which has many variable.
2) These variables can be adjusted using a screw driver
3) During load shedding the Output of the UPS is much more than normal electricity
4) Adjust the variables such that your Output Voltage should never exceed 265 Volts once batteries are fully charged
5) Adjust such that once output voltage reaches 223 Volts then your UPS should trigger the alarm and should shutdown within 10 seconds.
6) Adjust the charging rate such that you each battery should not get more then 10 A while charging.
7) If you have number of batteries connected in parallel then 10 AMPS at maximum should pass through each.
8) Slow charging is very good for batteries but if it is slower than this then you won?t be ready before the next load shedding.
9) UPS should stop charging your batteries once the output voltage of both the batteries reaches 28 Volts or 28.8 Volts.
10) During Load shedding once output of batteries (where two batteries are connected in Series) reaches 21.9 Volts then Alarm should be triggered and UPS should shut down.
11) This voltage should correspond to 223 Volts at output under load.
12) Always keep your UPS line separate from main line
13) Always test under full load so that you are aware about the maximum load that your UPS can take.
14) Your UPS should shutdown immediately if load exceeds the maximum load.
15) Now your computers should be safe under these configurations.
16) You will need a good quality Voltmeter and AMP meter.
17) Since chemical properties of batteries changes the entire year so you will have to check your tuning after every three months.

All these parameters are controlled by the variables present on the PCB card. Best is that you goto a Local UPS shop and ask them to adjust these variables according to the specification and see how they do it. Take a paper tape and mark each variable so that once you do it then you don?t forget it.

ALWAYS TREAT ELECTRICITY WITH RESPECT OTHER WISE YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE RESULTS

@talhawaleed
Hi,

Recently, I have ended up purchasing a local made UPS. The components are new but it has been assembled by my electrician. Specs are: 1000Watts, 24Volts. It has a trickle charging kit in it which according to the electrician charges the batteries even with very low voltage from wapda. He says that these UPSes dont require any stablizer before them.

Im running 2 85mp AGS battries that are new.
I got UPS installed yesterday, although loadshedding had been quite a lot but it has failed to charge battries at required rate!
The UPS output has been set at 240Volts, charging amps are 9.5 I think... but the UPS never trips down!! It was not even able to charge from 25.5volts to 28volts in 3 constant hours! It did not trip! wont it heat the battries? constant charging but not able to trip?? battries are new? i dont know why is it not tripping?

Now that tonight my battries were fully drained, please explain why the hell my electrician could not get it sorted out? What should i ask him to do now? I want my UPS to get back to full voltage(28volts) within 1 hour after 1 hour of leadshedding...

what do u suggest? where the problem is?

PS. My UPS's casing made loud sound when I turned off everything else and just used 1 fan (no lights no nothing) I think the electrician is trying to make adjustments while trying to get rid of the Goonjh at the same time... What is this sine wave thingy? can a pure sine wave kit help?

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed
Hi,

Recently, I have ended up purchasing a local made UPS. The components are new but it has been assembled by my electrician. Specs are: 1000Watts, 24Volts. It has a trickle charging kit in it which according to the electrician charges the batteries even with very low voltage from wapda. He says that these UPSes dont require any stablizer before them.

Im running 2 85mp AGS battries that are new.
I got UPS installed yesterday, although loadshedding had been quite a lot but it has failed to charge battries at required rate!
The UPS output has been set at 240Volts, charging amps are 9.5 I think... but the UPS never trips down!! It was not even able to charge from 25.5volts to 28volts in 3 constant hours! It did not trip! wont it heat the battries? constant charging but not able to trip?? battries are new? i dont know why is it not tripping?

Now that tonight my battries were fully drained, please explain why the hell my electrician could not get it sorted out? What should i ask him to do now? I want my UPS to get back to full voltage(28volts) within 1 hour after 1 hour of leadshedding...

what do u suggest? where the problem is?

PS. My UPS's casing made loud sound when I turned off everything else and just used 1 fan (no lights no nothing) I think the electrician is trying to make adjustments while trying to get rid of the Goonjh at the same time... What is this sine wave thingy? can a pure sine wave kit help?

You are refereeing to 2* 85mp which I understand as 85 AMP-HR batteries and if that?s true then I don?t understand why you are buying 85 AMP-HR batteries. Why don?t you invest more and buy something like 200 AMP-HR batteries which at-lest would be able to take a reasonable load and provide a good backup time. if you realize, we use 85 AMP-HR batteries in little bigger cars like Pejaro and do you think its enough to power your house for during an extended 1 hr load shedding.

Fine, tuning is your responsibility as most electricians are completely blank as you must have realized it by now. Get hold of a DC AMP-Meter as show in the image and find out the exact charging rate using the method shown in the image. Determine the correct AMP-HR ratings of your batteries and confirm the charging rate here and tell us about the intensity of load shedding in your area.

[Automotorsport_Lover]

My load is just 2 fans and max. 3 savers.... Electrician recommende these batteries, these are 15 plates each. I dont know what amp - hr means. But what I know is that these are 85 ampere battries...
Load shedding is of indefinate pattern, consective every other hour atleast. But these days it is more like 1.5 hrs loadshedding after every 1 hour.....

Charging setted by electrician is arround 9-9.5 amps i think... because when he checked from amp meter, it showed 4.5amps from one wire and 5 amps from the other going into the module from transformer.

[talhawaleed]

My load is just 2 fans and max. 3 savers.... Electrician recommende these batteries, these are 15 plates each. I dont know what amp - hr means. But what I know is that these are 85 ampere battries...
Load shedding is of indefinate pattern, consective every other hour atleast. But these days it is more like 1.5 hrs loadshedding after every 1 hour.....

Charging setted by electrician is arround 9-9.5 amps i think... because when he checked from amp meter, it showed 4.5amps from one wire and 5 amps from the other going into the module from transformer.

Batteries are rated in AMP-HR, thing which you are referring to as 85 amperes is 85 AMP-HR. Now good charging rates for 85 AMP-HR batteries are 8 Amperes as 4-5 amperes is little less. UPS normally have provision to adjust the charging rate either to 5 amperes, 12 Amperes and 22 Amperes. Now, you need to confirm the charging rate using the same meter as show in picture. Another thing, put entire load on UPS and use the same meter to measure the current drawn, as you will realize that fans consumes a lot of current and 85 AMP-HR batteries are not enough for two fans and will not last for an hour.

With 2*175 AMP-HR batteries or 2*200 AMP-HR batteries, you have a provision to increase the charging rates till 20 Amperes which will charge the batteries quickly and in return will also provide you with a reasonable backup time such that you would be comfortably able to run two fans on UPS system.

Right now 85 AMP-HR batteries with 4 to 5 Amperes of charging seems like a disaster under two fans and load shedding after every hour.

P.S: UPS are good for places where at-least load shedding occurs after every two hour for an hour or maybe two. Areas where light comes for an hour and goes for three, I would recommend generators as UPS needs a bare minimum time to charge the batteries.

[dms664]

@talhawaleed
Hi,

Recently, I have ended up purchasing a local made UPS. The components are new but it has been assembled by my electrician. Specs are: 1000Watts, 24Volts. It has a trickle charging kit in it which according to the electrician charges the batteries even with very low voltage from wapda. He says that these UPSes dont require any stablizer before them.

Im running 2 85mp AGS battries that are new.
I got UPS installed yesterday, although loadshedding had been quite a lot but it has failed to charge battries at required rate!
The UPS output has been set at 240Volts, charging amps are 9.5 I think... but the UPS never trips down!! It was not even able to charge from 25.5volts to 28volts in 3 constant hours! It did not trip! wont it heat the battries? constant charging but not able to trip?? battries are new? i dont know why is it not tripping?

Now that tonight my battries were fully drained, please explain why the hell my electrician could not get it sorted out? What should i ask him to do now? I want my UPS to get back to full voltage(28volts) within 1 hour after 1 hour of leadshedding...

what do u suggest? where the problem is?

PS. My UPS's casing made loud sound when I turned off everything else and just used 1 fan (no lights no nothing) I think the electrician is trying to make adjustments while trying to get rid of the Goonjh at the same time... What is this sine wave thingy? can a pure sine wave kit help?

Sir trickle charging is not for low voltage from wapda but it is something which come into play when the batteries get fully charged and then very low pulses of charge is being delivered to the batteries just to keep em top up and avoid discharge. This is called trickle charging.
The stabilizer thingy is there in homage where you get a button at the back of ups with two options narrow and wide. Set it on wide and it will keep charging even on very low voltage. On Narrow mode it will get into back up mode when the voltage drops below 180

[dms664]

@talhawaleed

Sir I cant recall the formula which you shared in this thread earlier to determine the charging amp for a battery but for now I have set 20 amp for my 200ah AGS battery. Is that ok or should I change it to 15?

If you can share that formula again please

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed

Sir I cant recall the formula which you shared in this thread earlier to determine the charging amp for a battery but for now I have set 20 amp for my 200ah AGS battery. Is that ok or should I change it to 15?

If you can share that formula again please

20 amperes for 200 AMP-HR batteries are maximum allowable charging rate but if load shedding is frequent such as one hour after every hour then stick to it and if you have a gap of 2-3 hours in between then consider reducing this to 15 Amperes.

Due to frequent load shedding, I have also increase the charging rate to 22 Amperes for my 220 AMP-HR batteries on temporary basis.

[talhawaleed]

Sir trickle charging is not for low voltage from wapda but it is something which come into play when the batteries get fully charged and then very low pulses of charge is being delivered to the batteries just to keep em top up and avoid discharge. This is called trickle charging.

The stabilizer thingy is there in homage where you get a button at the back of ups with two options narrow and wide. Set it on wide and it will keep charging even on very low voltage. On Narrow mode it will get into back up mode when the voltage drops below 180

You are right, trickle charging has nothing to do with if Voltage from WAPDA is too low.

[Automotorsport_Lover]

Sir trickle charging is not for low voltage from wapda but it is something which come into play when the batteries get fully charged and then very low pulses of charge is being delivered to the batteries just to keep em top up and avoid discharge. This is called trickle charging.
The stabilizer thingy is there in homage where you get a button at the back of ups with two options narrow and wide. Set it on wide and it will keep charging even on very low voltage. On Narrow mode it will get into back up mode when the voltage drops below 180

@dms664 @talhawaleed

The battries discharged because one of the fuse had given away...
Anyways, Now it has been set again to 9.5 Amps. giving satisfactory back up.... So i just need to know, is really trickle charging kit not a solution for low volts? my electrician said that this UPS wont need any satblizer?

And i also suspect that it does need one... We usually get 180-200 volts in summers.

[umer_siddiqui]

It may sound silly, but is the charging current adjustable for every UPS? And what are the pros and cons of increasing it? I have a Homage UPS with 180 AMP HR battery.

[dms664]

20 amperes for 200 AMP-HR batteries are maximum allowable charging rate but if load shedding is frequent such as one hour after every hour then stick to it and if you have a gap of 2-3 hours in between then consider reducing this to 15 Amperes.

Due to frequent load shedding, I have also increase the charging rate to 22 Amperes for my 220 AMP-HR batteries on temporary basis.

sir what was that formula to calculate the charging current for different batteries?

[talhawaleed]

@dms664 @talhawaleed

The battries discharged because one of the fuse had given away...
Anyways, Now it has been set again to 9.5 Amps. giving satisfactory back up.... So i just need to know, is really trickle charging kit not a solution for low volts? my electrician said that this UPS wont need any satblizer?

And i also suspect that it does need one... We usually get 180-200 volts in summers.

As per my understanding, Trickle charging: once batteries are fully charged let us @ 9 Amperes then UPS reduces the charging rate to 1 amperes to make sure that batteries remains in its top most charging state and does not loose charge. It’s a preventive measure to keep the batteries in top notch condition and as we know that batteries looses charge once let after charging so you can say that this is also a precaution.

Rest other members can further explain this.

[talhawaleed]

It may sound silly, but is the charging current adjustable for every UPS? And what are the pros and cons of increasing it? I have a Homage UPS with 180 AMP HR battery.

sir what was that formula to calculate the charging current for different batteries?

We need to determine the AMP-HR rating of your batteries then formula says AMP-HR ratings/10 is the maximum allowable charging rate. Like if AMP-HR rating is 200 then maximum allowable charging rate can be 20 Amperes. I can adjust it to 15 Amperes, 10 Amperes but if load shedding is frequent then I will set it to 20 Amperes. Slow charging is good for batteries but ours problem is a frequent load shedding so in order to protect the batteries from prolonged discharged state, we try to keep it close to to maximum.

P.S: few UPS have provision where you can charge the charging rates and whereas in few manufacturer has not given this provision. Like local ones have a provision where you can adjust the charging rates.

[car_bus2008]

The Positive terminal of my second battery just changed its colour from silver to black and also the backup of my UPS got affected too.

When the batteries were new i was getting a backup of 2hours.

And now only 30mins from 2X140Amp Volta Batteries.

Please help.

1st Pic The terminal gone black in colour

2nd Pic the terminal of First Battery which is OK

3rd Pic the Positive terminal which gone black.