Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[talhawaleed]

hope, you have not started using it. drain it and fill it with proper electrolyte.

if you do so, then their wont be any issue.

[Ishtiaq778]

Hi Talha,

Congrats on in depth research and then sharing it with such passion & clarity.
Problem: Discharging of battery
1. Last year, My Local made 1000W ups keep lowering the battery gravity until I had to get battery gravity/charge again for Rs.350.
2. So, I exchanged my old NS 175 which lasted 1.5 Years with new Volt NS 175 battery. But it didn't solve the problem.
3. I give UPS and battery to UPS Guy, He changed the card. and charged around Rs.2500 (including pick n drop + battery recharge + led change)
4. Still ups show same behavior of discharging the battery over the month.
5. I keep getting the battery recharge as quick fix every month
6. On 28 March I got new battery Phoenix XP165. Just after week its gravity was 1150 checked by hydrometer
7. I took battery and ups to ups guy on 2nd April, He said the ups cut off was not 1250. He did the tuning and charged Rs.600.
8. 13 April, I checked the battery its gravity is 1150 again. I am just using i5 pc and energy saver, sometimes Fan.

P.S. There is this white clot of some material at bottom of ups ( see Pic). I Guess previous battery also have these clots. Battery dealer's Charging place seem to giving it freely in dowry :P. I am going to wash it today with one spoon baking soda mixed in glass of water.

Kindly advised me. I am stuck, so is these 2 different Ups guys ( 1st card changer & 2nd Tuner) . I will be more than happy to follow your lead
Best Joy

Dear can u tell me the load shedding schedule and ur use of load on ups?

[Ishtiaq778]

usually this problem happen when, battery remains undercharge. With the passage of time gravity becomes low. what is specification of ur pc? using with CRT monitor or LCD? What exactly is your load??

[khurram_y3k]

AOA,

Thank you all for giving us this valuable information here.

Last Saturday i performed flush on my AGS 165 battery according to the procedure laid down in the thread. After that i checked the gravity of electrolyte in battery and it was 1120 (whereas gravity of electrolyte in original cane purchased from Pyro is 1250).

After the flush i kept the battery up side down for 30 minutes but i guess some water was still inside the battery and that is why gravity has reduced. I need help from seniors about how can i improve the gravity and will it improve back up time. Currently battery is giving backup of 1 hour with 1 fan and 2 energy savers.

Thanks for all the replies in advance.

Regards,

[best.mission.joy]

usually this problem happen when, battery remains undercharge. With the passage of time gravity becomes low. what is specification of ur pc? using with CRT monitor or LCD? What exactly is your load??

Hi Ishtiaq, Thanks for replying.

Load:
1. pc i5 with 19"LCD (built in graphic card, so no extra power consumption)
2. 1 energy saver
3. 1 Fan

Note: Last year I had CRT monitor for my second pc. When i suspected load shedding, I had to keep it's power button off otherwise it would restart both pc. According to my experience CRT monitor take took much power to start and its load is much greater than LCD. So I get rid of it.

Since my load is less than backup time of NS 175 Volta and now XP 165 phoenix, so most of time UPS get fully charged before next load shedding.

Steps
1. Today I am going to get the ups variables set to 7 amperes (or 8 to 10 charging rate) and cut of voltage to 14.2 Volts.
2. Going to get got electrolyte.

I hope it solves my problem.

Thanks for your input. I will keep your diagnosis in mind as well while observing the ups behaviour.

Have a nice day.

Best Joy

[MatapatapAAA]

Ive been having a wierd issue with my ups lately, its a systek 1600W model, and for a year it has served me well.
Ive been able to play ps4 on it, and typically it lasts us 3-4 hours before dying.

Once a issue arose of the battery finishing too quickly, and after calling the systek guys they said out of the 3 batteries we used, 1 was faulty and was throwing off the ups sensing mechanism. ( at the time i checked the voltage of each of the batteries myself, they seemed to be fine )

A year down the road, this issue as arisen This time the systek guys dont seem too fond of coming to look at the problem, ( has been a week and its been nothing but lollygagging on their side )

So how can i check that one of the batteries is faulty etc or not?

[MatapatapAAA]

Ive been having a wierd issue with my ups lately, its a systek 1600W model, and for a year it has served me well.
Ive been able to play ps4 on it, and typically it lasts us 3-4 hours before dying.

Once a issue arose of the battery finishing too quickly, and after calling the systek guys they said out of the 3 batteries we used, 1 was faulty and was throwing off the ups sensing mechanism. ( at the time i checked the voltage of each of the batteries myself, they seemed to be fine )

A year down the road, this issue as arisen This time the systek guys dont seem too fond of coming to look at the problem, ( has been a week and its been nothing but lollygagging on their side )

So how can i check that one of the batteries is faulty etc or not?

[Ishtiaq778]

Ive been having a wierd issue with my ups lately, its a systek 1600W model, and for a year it has served me well.
Ive been able to play ps4 on it, and typically it lasts us 3-4 hours before dying.

Once a issue arose of the battery finishing too quickly, and after calling the systek guys they said out of the 3 batteries we used, 1 was faulty and was throwing off the ups sensing mechanism. ( at the time i checked the voltage of each of the batteries myself, they seemed to be fine )

A year down the road, this issue as arisen This time the systek guys dont seem too fond of coming to look at the problem, ( has been a week and its been nothing but lollygagging on their side )

So how can i check that one of the batteries is faulty etc or not?

Use good digital DC voltmeter for diagnostic tests.
When UPS is on back up, Battery volt individually, by placing prob of meter on positive and negative pole of battery.
Battery showing low volts is the culprit.

[MatapatapAAA]

Use good digital DC voltmeter for diagnostic tests.
When UPS is on back up, Battery volt individually, by placing prob of meter on positive and negative pole of battery.
Battery showing low volts is the culprit.

I have a UT33C multimeter i use for electronics projects. I suppose that will do.
"back up"? you mean backing up power to the batteries i.e charging
or
"back up" as in the main power is gone and the ups is serving as a backup to the rest of the house?
So i am to check the batteries one by one when the ups is outputting power or when it is charging?
and also am i to disconnect the batteries first from each other or do i just need to hook it to each one individually?

And i just checked , when all the batteries are still connected and the ups is giving power to the rest of the house 2 batteries are at 11.90 volts and the other is at 11.96 volts. nothing looks faulty to me.

[MatapatapAAA]

Use good digital DC voltmeter for diagnostic tests.
When UPS is on back up, Battery volt individually, by placing prob of meter on positive and negative pole of battery.
Battery showing low volts is the culprit.

I have a UT33C multimeter i use for electronics projects. I suppose that will do.
So i am to check the batteries one by one when the ups is outputting power or when it is charging?
and also am i to disconnect the batteries first from each other or do i just need to hook it to each one individually?

[MatapatapAAA]

2 batteries are at 11.90volts other is at 11.96 volts.
This is while ups is outputting power as a back up and all the batteries are interconnected with each other.

[MatapatapAAA]

the system itself is a systek 1.6 VA classic ups with 3 batteries in series making 36v .
The batteries themselves are 1 millat M 100 battery and the other two are AGS GL 100 batteries.

[whiteangel]

AOA,

Thank you all for giving us this valuable information here.

Last Saturday i performed flush on my AGS 165 battery according to the procedure laid down in the thread. After that i checked the gravity of electrolyte in battery and it was 1120 (whereas gravity of electrolyte in original cane purchased from Pyro is 1250).

After the flush i kept the battery up side down for 30 minutes but i guess some water was still inside the battery and that is why gravity has reduced. I need help from seniors about how can i improve the gravity and will it improve back up time. Currently battery is giving backup of 1 hour with 1 fan and 2 energy savers.

Thanks for all the replies in advance.

Regards,

Gravity of a battery depends on SOC (state of charge). If you pour 1250 electrolyte in a battery which is low on charge, the plates absorb the sulphur and the gravity of electrolyte goes down. When the battery is being charged, the plates release the sulphur back into the electrolyte and the gravity of the battery increases. Charge the battery fully and check electrolyte level, it should come back to 1250.

[khurram_y3k]

Gravity of a battery depends on SOC (state of charge). If you pour 1250 electrolyte in a battery which is low on charge, the plates absorb the sulphur and the gravity of electrolyte goes down. When the battery is being charged, the plates release the sulphur back into the electrolyte and the gravity of the battery increases. Charge the battery fully and check electrolyte level, it should come back to 1250.

thanks for your replay whiteangel.

Well the battery have been fully charged and discharged multiple times since Saturday. I have checked the gravity when it was fully charged and WAPDA was on and also during load sheding. At both times gravity was 1120.

Please suggest what should i do now. Should i replace the electrolyte?

[Ishtiaq778]

2 batteries are at 11.90volts other is at 11.96 volts.
This is while ups is outputting power as a back up and all the batteries are interconnected with each other.

ok check volts of battery when ups about to off. let the load run without wapda for 1 or 2 hours. Then check the volts of each battery

[best.mission.joy]

hope, you have not started using it. drain it and fill it with proper electrolyte.

if you do so, then their wont be any issue.

Updated Cell Number
I have talked to PyroChem (Lahore) at 042 -35839278. The person at desk gave me number of sales supervisor Rehmaat Bahi # 0301-8405723. Rs.930 for 12 Litre 1250 electrolyte. This is price of carton have 24 bottles. Each bottle of 500 ml.
Market rate of carton is Rs.1200. Rs.50 per bottle as per Rehmat Bahi

Amount needed for xp165 Phoenix is 9 Liter as told by battery guy

Availability of Pyrochem Electrolyte in Islamabad:
Mr.Rehmaat told me that he will book the carton to Bilal Travels.

Note:
When I called bilal travels, they said they don't transport liquid Cargo. I have yet to talk about it to Rehmat Bahi. UPDATE: Yes, Rehmat bahi confirmed that Bilal travels don't transport liquid cargo. So I can't get electrolyte through cargo service.

Meanwhile, i have given battery to new battery dealer to fix its gravity and over watering situation.

[best.mission.joy]

Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post

He is ripping you just because you don?t know anything. Interesting thing is that he himself does not knows jack. This thread simply

tells you that you need to pour a good electrolyte in your batteries and if you adjust the charging rate and cut off voltage between 14.0V to 14.4V then you will never face these issues.

Since, your BATTERY is XP 165 PHEONIX the website says that it has an amp-hr rating of 120 amp-hr so adjust the charging rate to 7 amperes and cut of voltage to 14.2 Volts.

P.S: pheonix ugs grade batteries are better then xp grade as they have been manufactured for ups.
If you are able to do these two things, then you are good to go. No need to wash it, but if you can purchase a good electrolyte from pryo chemicals then drain it to fill a good one.

---

Hi Talha,
I have took Ups to guy who have changed the card. When I told him values, he was quite impressed and set the values for free

Battery High: 13.99 ( previous value 15 )
Battery Low: 10.5 ( previous value 8.5)
Charging rate: 16.60 ( previous value 18)

He said this is tickle charging and when charging start it will start with 16.60 in start and as battery got charged, this value keep dropping till it reach 2 amp.

Please advise should I Still set vaule to 7 amp charging rate?

[talhawaleed]

Quote Originally Posted by talhawaleed View Post

He is ripping you just because you don?t know anything. Interesting thing is that he himself does not knows jack. This thread simply

tells you that you need to pour a good electrolyte in your batteries and if you adjust the charging rate and cut off voltage between 14.0V to 14.4V then you will never face these issues.

Since, your BATTERY is XP 165 PHEONIX the website says that it has an amp-hr rating of 120 amp-hr so adjust the charging rate to 7 amperes and cut of voltage to 14.2 Volts.

P.S: pheonix ugs grade batteries are better then xp grade as they have been manufactured for ups.
If you are able to do these two things, then you are good to go. No need to wash it, but if you can purchase a good electrolyte from pryo chemicals then drain it to fill a good one.

*****************************************************************************************

Hi Talha,
I have took Ups to guy who have changed the card. When I told him values, he was quite impressed and set the values for free

Battery High: 13.99 ( previous value 15 )
Battery Low: 10.5 ( previous value 8.5)
Charging rate: 16.60 ( previous value 18)

He said this is tickle charging and when charging start it will start with 16.60 in start and as battery got charged, this value keep dropping till it reach 2 amp.

Please advise should I Still set vaule to 7 amp charging rate?

Extreme load shedding is 3 hours of load shedding after every hour, or two hours of load shedding after every one hour of light, only under these circumstances your charging rate should be maximum allowable charging rate. Rest everything is ok and in Islamabad, one hour of load shedding after every three hours is not much that you should adjust the charging rate to its maximum capacity. 7 amperes of charging rate in your case is perfectly well.

Previously set cut of Voltage to 15Volts was an abuse on batteries and these sorts of thing kills the batteries very soon. Charging rate
earlier was also very high to 18 amperes and 16.60 amperes is still high.

Maximum charging rate for these batteries should never exceed 12 amperes at any stage may it be tickle charging?

Still you want to keep it high then set it at 9 amperes of charging rate for xp165 as amp hour rating is 120.

Battery low can be further adjusted to 10.3 Volts from 10.5V.

p.s: Mistakes in above picture: AMP-hr rating/10 = amperes, which is charging rate.

so 120/10 =12 amperes which in your case is the maximum allowable charging rate.

cut of voltage to 14 Volts is ok.

[MatapatapAAA]

ok check volts of battery when ups about to off. let the load run without wapda for 1 or 2 hours. Then check the volts of each battery

Problem located. The 2 of the batteries are at 11.80 volts when the ups is beeping critical and one of them is in between 10 to 10.2 volts.

issue is that this is a brand new ags battery, it has not been even a year since it has been purchased and setup. I believe the problem to be with bad electrolyte, as i can see some very small translucent solid particles when i open up the battery to look at it. This same thing happened with my last battery.

Another issue may be that my uncle was the one to fill up the batteries. he has a motto of "whats good in normal amounts is better in large amounts "So he makes his kids wear 3 layers of clothes in pakistan summers, and fills the ups batteries beyond the max point. This may not be the reason the battery died but it is likely the reason why they dont last as long.

So what can i do?
im thinking of completely dumping the electrolyte in all three batteries, and refilling/remaking them up to point with proper, high quality fluids. The batteries when we purchased them they were filled up with self made electrolyte from the ags shop at dha cng opposite k block lahore

from what ive picked up from this thread, right now i have to charge batteries fully. flush them, and load them up with new electrolyte. How much do i order from the pyro guys? do they even sell to lahore?
( i dont mind at all paying a little bit more if they are to be shipped to me, but i demand cash on delivery )

and also where can i find a hydrometer in lahore? i have a multimeter serving as a voltmeter and ammeter but i dont have a hydrometer.

our load shading routine is power goes after every hour, or MAYBE after every two hours. during summer.

Winter power goes twice a day for a hour each, sometimes not at all.

addendum=
I do have some relatives that can get me pyro electrolye from the twin cities, but i need to know how much my 3 batteries will need.
1x millat M100
2x AGS GL 100

[talhawaleed]

AOA,

Thank you all for giving us this valuable information here.

Last Saturday i performed flush on my AGS 165 battery according to the procedure laid down in the thread. After that i checked the gravity of electrolyte in battery and it was 1120 (whereas gravity of electrolyte in original cane purchased from Pyro is 1250).

After the flush i kept the battery up side down for 30 minutes but i guess some water was still inside the battery and that is why gravity has reduced. I need help from seniors about how can i improve the gravity and will it improve back up time. Currently battery is giving backup of 1 hour with 1 fan and 2 energy savers.

Thanks for all the replies in advance.

Regards,

This has been explained, that electrolyte gravity is an indicator which simply tells you how good your batteries are or points towards a problem area which needs to be addressed such as ups adjustment. If its low, then it pointing towards an adjustment, specific gravity will increase if your batteries properly charges its self and discharges itself on ups which is properly tuned. Lets assume that your ups is properly tuned and then trust me, within two weeks, it will show its true value as sulfuric acid and distilled water will get enough time to mix with each other, further specific gravity should always be checked on a fully charged batteries as during discharging specific gravity reduces and during charging it increase as during discharging sulfuric acid gets absorbed in cells plate and during discharging it comes out to mix with electrolyte that?s why one experiences increase and decrease in specific gravity and this indicator tells you that how well your batteries are doing. Think it of an indicator, like amp-meter as an indicator which indicates a charging rate and voltmeter as an indicator which indicates either dc voltage on battery terminals or AC output voltage. Putting a higher gravity electrolyte will never solve your problem but will make things worse.

I wrote in thread, KNOW YOUR SITUATION like if you have three hours of load shedding after every hour or one hour of load shedding after every three hours. Correspondingly, make adjustments on UPS. if these adjustments are ok, then correspondingly the s.g will also be ok and batteries will last for longer.

good to see that you used pryo's electrolyte, now make sure that your ups is properly adjusted.