My Electric (BEV) Mehran Project

[frk2]

45MPG is equal to 19Km / Litre which sounds about right for a hybrid car.

[frk2]

I think the newer ones do about 70MPG which is equivalent to 30km /litre.

[bango]

@Frk2 - I'll get back to you once I've confirmed the milage from my friend. It would be stupid from my end arguing without confirmation.

[frk2]

Please do- it would be interesting indeed!

[nightsurfer]

Interesting figures that is super economical.

There is one question I would like to ask. Why do you not prefer going for the current cheaper batteries? I mean, that would decrease the overall cost of the car substantially (down to the level or even under Suzuki Mehran's price). Why not experiment (dare I say) by going for a cheaper comparatively lesser performing version first before going for an effecient expensive one?

Yes, your market will eventually be the upper mid educated class. But, to make your mark you have to sell your cars in good numbers some where. I'd say go for an ultra cheap ultra light Nano type version of the car. That would sell as it would create its own segment in the market which can be manipulated easily I suppose.

I would also suggest you to conduct a market survey and get the ultimate buyer's opinion specifically focusing questions such as, how much is the customer ready to compromise on quality for decreased cost; what are the absolute essentials do the customer hope for in a basic car etc..

[frk2]

@nightsurfer - these batteries are giving me terrible range and power. They start sagging after 10-15 minutes of driving reducing power considerably. These are Volta IT 750 UPS batteries - rougly 200Ah rating (for Starting purposes). Total range is also very limited to around 30-35km. I dont think that such a car has a future in this country untill it can survive a good 150-200km. That would mean that even if there IS load shedding, you could survive multiple days without a good charge. The better batteries also cause no noticeable change in power output till about 80 or 90% Discharge so they are far, far superior.

Also - these LiFePo4 batteries have a life of around 3000 cycles - roughly 300,000 to 450,000km !!! - The cheaper lead acid ones will be good only for around 500 cycles - around 50,000 to 75000km and they would lose power in a linear fashion - meaning they would keep getting weakre and weaker (unlike the LiFePo4s, which maintain good charge till about 95% of their life)

Makes sense?

[AmmarFaiz]

nice man ur really onto something here no other country at the moment is producing and sellin such cheap electric cars i think ur a pioneer man

[frk2]

Well cheap labor and lack of safety regulations really helps to decrease cost

[frk2]

Also - I dont understand why electric car makers dont produce electric cars that are part replaceable with earlier cars. That is what Tesla motors does (they dont produce anything of their own). That seriously helps to decrease cost - you can concentrate on making the car instead of worrying that the rubber dye for your sideview mirrors is out of stock - stuff like that. Leave mass scale manufacturing of small components to dudes who have been doing it for years - only add value where it matters (in the drivetrain). Thats my idea - lets see how it works if I do execute it

[frk2]

@nightsurfer - THIs was supposed to be a market survey :). So what would YOU guys rather have:

A Lead Acid Deep Cycle based car with a warranty of 1 year on the batteries, decent performance and range around 70-80km - somewhere around PKR 600,000

OR

A LiFePo4 based car with a warranty of 3 years on the battery, best possible performance and range around 120+ km.

[nightsurfer]

frk2:

Well, with those figures, a cheaper option really goes out of question doesn't it.

You surely have a nice workable solution there mate. Using parts that are already available is great idea but what have you planned for chassis and body pannels?

[frk2]

@nightsurfer - Body panels would be made out of GRP fiberglass. Chassis would be a ladder-type chassis fabricated locally - will know by next week who can manufacture the chassis for me.

[saadisb]

what abt powering the motor with hydrogen fuel cell. it will be one of its kind in the world. but it will be very expensive.

just giving an idea.

[Proverbial_Slang]

Mashallah!

This is by far THE BEST thread on Pakwheels yet. I totally agree with you design philosophy for an electric car. the choice of Mehran and keeping the original gearbox was an excellent choice. This is just too awesome! If I was a millionnaire, I would fund this project right now!

I have just a few suggestions to improve on the overall efficiency of the car.

1- Use LED's for lights, which will reduce electricity consumption by upto 20%.

2- Cheap aerodynamic improvements. I know we don;t have wind tunnels, but I still believe something can be done on those lines.

I know it is a bit early for this project, but these two things will enhance the efficiency of the vehicle a lot. Please do think on these lines.

Once again, hats off to you! I salute you for taking the initiative and actualy materializing this project. As far as people accepting new technology iss concerned, Yes, people do have an issue with accepting it here in Pakistan. My uncle imported electric scooters 4 years ago with a range of 80Kms and a top speed of 70Km/h and was not able to sell a single unit. It might have been the wrong choice of his location, but the point is, that they did not sell at all.

Things have changed now. Fuel prices have gone through the roof, and international media attention has shifted somewhat towards alternative fuels and technologies.

It would be interesting feedback here as I work for a US based company which does customer staisfaction surveys for US automakers and while reviewing those, I hear a lot of customers talking about hybrids, clean diesels, biodiesel and pure electric vehicles. The biggest issue with electrics and hybrids in the long run is of

a) Disposal of batteries (Environmental implications).

b) Cost of new batteries after every few years.

Let me give you an example. A VW Jetta TDi does almost the same mileage as a Prius or an Insight, but provides much more power. These new VW diesels are super clean. They even have a "California Edition". I could go on and on about this as cars and related technology are my passion, but this is going off topic now and this popst is already way too long for most people's taste.

Once again, excellent piece of work!

Allah Hafiz.

[frk2]

@proverbial_Slang: The cheap aerodynamics are already part of the design. This would include:

1. more 'pointy' frontal shape to reduce frontal area and drag.
2. fender flares and side body flares (like those found on the supra)
3. A small rear tail.
4. Wheel well covers for the rear tire.
5. Under body polished fiber glass 'pan'

This will all be done keep a 'alto' type look so I hope it doesnt start looking stupid

These are also cheap as the body is made from fabricated fiber

You have a excellent point regarding the batteries.

1. Changing batteries - I dont know if you are aware of the newer mass market LiFePo4 batteries being made in china. They have a 80% DOD life of 3000 cycles!! At a range of around 80-100km thats roughly 300,000km. Changing the batteries every 300,00km is still about the same price as getting your engine rebuilt probably twice in the same time frame.

2. Disposal - Yes this is a problem. However they are now using old litihium batteries to make new ones. As this recycling technology improves in the next few years the cost of lithium batteries would come down drastically.

[frk2]

@saadisb: Looked into it. A hydrogen full cell that can provide 26kw of power is modestly priced at about $500,000+

[ahmedk06]

@jabbar81

why dont u shove a brand new DC motor up urs and stop hitting on what this guy has done and is doing, people like u are the pessimistic neglects of the society who dont know how to live and let live. you are continously making direct shots at him. this is not an amusement park where one just brags only. The only way to reach up is to hike a ladder one step at a time , you try two steps and u break ur back. Anyways i have been to EME and the so called Mechatronix of Nust is something i am vvery aware of but here this guy is designing a prototype not a whole car itself. Even nust cant do that. i know there expertise.

hats Off to this guy , what a beautiful simple idea.

and i dont think so that the tires wud skid. Go and google what a Slip Diff and a Diff is. and here previous gearbox is still there

[frk2]

@proverbial_slang: Help me out here then with some real market data juice What are the main pain points is it:

1. Cost competitiveness with existing ICE cars of similar stature
2. Range
3. Cost Efficiency (petrol vs electricity)
4. Power and showing off (burning rubber, etc)

[281804shkm]

w8in f0r pix..!!

[frk2]

There are some pics early on in the thread. I was soo occupied in testing it that I forgot the pics after it actually came back. Its gone again to the mechanic as the mehran's differential has too much play in it which was p***ing me off so thats being currently repaired. Pics would be back end of next week max.