Pioneer GM-D8604 vs Focal 4.75LE

[Durrani90]

Hey guys just wanted a comparison for the above 2 mentioned amplifiers. I currently own a focal 4.75 and a pioneer 8601 (monoblock) and the pioneer is pretty impressive in terms of size and power so was considering changing the focal for the pioneer 4 channel.
What would u guys suggest on this? Im looking to build an sql system, the head unit im using is a deh 80prs and speakers are focal ps165 components. Sub woofer is yet to be decided. Also i might add another set of components for the back or run the front stage active (not decided yet, so feedback on that is welcome too).
Anyway looking forward to suggestions, thanks...

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[CoLd_FuSiOn]

Hey guys just wanted a comparison for the above 2 mentioned amplifiers. I currently own a focal 4.75 and a pioneer 8601 (monoblock) and the pioneer is pretty impressive in terms of size and power so was considering changing the focal for the pioneer 4 channel.
What would u guys suggest on this? Im looking to build an sql system, the head unit im using is a deh 80prs and speakers are focal ps165 components. Sub woofer is yet to be decided. Also i might add another set of components for the back or run the front stage active (not decided yet, so feedback on that is welcome too).
Anyway looking forward to suggestions, thanks...

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Although class d is the future,The focal is a better amp,right now full range d class amps have caught up only in the high end range example being JL HD or Alpine pdx.I've personally heard the amp in question and the focal will serve you better in this scenario.

P.s As far as pairing is concerned focal is known to match well with brands like audison,dls,McIntosh etc.

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[roms]

Hey guys just wanted a comparison for the above 2 mentioned amplifiers. I currently own a focal 4.75 and a pioneer 8601 (monoblock) and the pioneer is pretty impressive in terms of size and power so was considering changing the focal for the pioneer 4 channel.
What would u guys suggest on this? Im looking to build an sql system, the head unit im using is a deh 80prs and speakers are focal ps165 components. Sub woofer is yet to be decided. Also i might add another set of components for the back or run the front stage active (not decided yet, so feedback on that is welcome too).
Anyway looking forward to suggestions, thanks...

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Focal 4.75LE is way better than 8604, but there are more amps out there which can do better than 4.75.

[Durrani90]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and what about goin active vs 2 pairs of components passive?

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[roms]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and what about goin active vs 2 pairs of components passive?

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What equipment do you have?

[Durrani90]

What equipment do you have?

mentioned in the first post, i.e "the head unit im using is a deh 80prs and speakers are focal ps165 components. Sub woofer is yet to be decided." and amps are 4.75 le and 8601 mono

[roms]

mentioned in the first post, i.e "the head unit im using is a deh 80prs and speakers are focal ps165 components. Sub woofer is yet to be decided." and amps are 4.75 le and 8601 mono

Ohh sorry, i completely missed it. Active all the way with this equipment, no second thoughts whatsoever

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[Durrani90]

Ohh sorry, i completely missed it. Active all the way with this equipment, no second thoughts whatsoever

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Okay! Sounds good. Btw ho much difference will it make if i run the system with or without the focal crossovers (ps 165 has seperate cross overs for e mids and tweets). Like id love the assurity that im mot gonna burn my tweeters

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[roms]

Okay! Sounds good. Btw ho much difference will it make if i run the system with or without the focal crossovers (ps 165 has seperate cross overs for e mids and tweets). Like id love the assurity that im mot gonna burn my tweeters

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New drivers driving a car have tendency to scratch it or wreck the car, but if driver knows what he is doing than he can keep it going for years. Same is the case here, no one can give you guarantee of tweets, but if you cross them right then all is good and safe. Almost all of SQ people run active, and don't burn anything.
Decision is yours but believe me its worth it.

[Durrani90]

New drivers driving a car have tendency to scratch it or wreck the car, but if driver knows what he is doing than he can keep it going for years. Same is the case here, no one can give you guarantee of tweets, but if you cross them right then all is good and safe. Almost all of SQ people run active, and don't burn anything.
Decision is yours but believe me its worth it.

i see, but being honest i am kinda new to this scene, sq that is. and suggestions who i can get it set up by in the pindi islamabad area? @madhouse12 recommended this one person to me for general work, but im not sure if i should trust him blindly in setting up an active system.

[madhouse12]

i see, but being honest i am kinda new to this scene, sq that is. and suggestions who i can get it set up by in the pindi islamabad area? @madhouse12 recommended this one person to me for general work, but im not sure if i should trust him blindly in setting up an active system.

Just use an appropriate size capacitor with the tweets if you want a peace of mind.

[Durrani90]

Just use an appropriate size capacitor with the tweets if you want a peace of mind.

links to any suggested capacitors for tweets? im assuming they're different from the ones used for amps

[omarss]

If you are running active, the most basic and safest capacitor would be 8 microfarad installed inline on the positive terminal of the tweeter. You can vary the capacitance to 16 microfarad at the most. so your safe zone would be from 16-8 microfarad, installed inline. This give you a 6db slope on the tweet.
@roms , @madhouse12 please validate.

[roms]

If you are running active, the most basic and safest capacitor would be 8 microfarad installed inline on the positive terminal of the tweeter. You can vary the capacitance to 16 microfarad at the most. so your safe zone would be from 16-8 microfarad, installed inline. This give you a 6db slope on the tweet.
@roms , @madhouse12 please validate.

I am not in favour of using caps on tweets, you can say it my personal preference because caps (high pass filters) induce a phase shift which create problems specially when you are building a cohesive system.
For starters, it is a must. @omarss is right, its safe between 8-16 mf. I would suggest a bipolar capacitor rated above 100v and around 13mf capacitance. Reason is the tnp tweet's Fs.

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[CoLd_FuSiOn]

links to any suggested capacitors for tweets? im assuming they're different from the ones used for amps

If you are running active, the most basic and safest capacitor would be 8 microfarad installed inline on the positive terminal of the tweeter. You can vary the capacitance to 16 microfarad at the most. so your safe zone would be from 16-8 microfarad, installed inline. This give you a 6db slope on the tweet.
@roms , @madhouse12 please validate.

A bipolar capacitor with at least 100v rating is needed.

The thing is even when running active we can't do anything about turn on or turn off pops from amps which are full range signals and therefore can damage the tweeters.To avoid phase shifts, we plant our capacitor on a point that is so far away from our active point and still provides protection that the output has attenuated so much it doesn't make a difference.

Here are two extremes, the focal is a 4ohm driver and let's say we'll cross it at 4k.We'll use the passive crossover point at least one octave below the active point to avoid any phase issues.If the passive point is near the active then we'll definitely have phase issues as the output from the active slope hasn't attenuated the driver enough hence there is interaction.

8uf cap will be problematic since we intend to cross at 4k

This would provide enough protection without introducing a phase shift.

As with many things there are multiple school of thoughts,you can choose the one that suits you in this case protection vs no protection.This is subjective and my personal opinion has been stated above.

Best of luck...

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[omarss]

Popping from the amp????

Only old amps and low quality amps produce the popping noise which damages the speakers.... If the amp goes pop every time you power it up... you SHOULD change the amp.

I dont think the Focal Amp that OP has will pop.

The phase shift is induced due to the passive filter being applied. It wouldnt really matter where you place it, a phase shift will be there.

[CoLd_FuSiOn]

Popping from the amp????

Only old amps and low quality amps produce the popping noise which damages the speakers.... If the amp goes pop every time you power it up... you SHOULD change the amp.

I dont think the Focal Amp that OP has will pop.

The phase shift is induced due to the passive filter being applied. It wouldnt really matter where you place it, a phase shift will be there.

Prevention is better than cure, high end tweeters cost a lot and provided we're in a Pakistan they'll be hard to find separately.Either way, whether if it's a full range signal or unintentional manipulation of the crossover point that sends more than the tweeter can handle then it takes care of that.

That is debatable but I've already shared my thoughts on this,that provided you use a proper rated capacitor it'll be taken care of.The rest is personal preference, both things are acceptable and both are followed.

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[madhouse12]

Pops in amp can be cause by many things, damaged rca is one of them. I agree with clodie that prevention is better than cure.

[roms]

Turn on & off pop is basically a DC offset not a full range siganl.
Secondly it can occur in amp at two stages. Rca ground loop not isolated, causes a preamp stage pop which can be eliminated by grounding the RCA and head unit.
If you rule out the preamp stage issue than it is the output stage of the amp. Autopsy of amp can help identify faulty caps. Modern amps deploy muting circuits and relays which accommodate DC offset at switch "on&off" intervals.

The phase shift is a phase shift and has nothing to do with the attenuation of signal. The phase shift induced at point where signal is attenuated 24 or 36db will affect the entire passband of that specific driver. Tests & reaults have shown that the high pass filter at 10hz or low pass filter and 20khz causes a phase shift which can be clearly identified on the FR plot. And yes this is true for the all pass filter as well.
Still i would say, caps are must for beginners. So OP should consider them.

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[daniyal9131]

So if a passive capacitor or crossover crosses at say, 3000hz at 18db slope, and we try to actively cross the driver at 4000hz at 12db slope, then:

1.Will this introduce phase issues?
2.Will my active crossover point work or is the passive crossover defining the crossover point and head unit, dsp or any other electronic crossover can not over it?