(Rant)So I had a dream

[sk_020]

My dear bro what are u talking about?? A plot is only been given to a 22 grade officer for once. For a 17-20 grade officer, it is not even possible to afford the rent of home in Islamabad city. Leave the corrupt people aside.

You live in Islamabad so I should tell you that a cultus is assigned for the duty of a 20 grade officer while 21/22 grade officers use one corolla on. Please show me a house where a government employee is running 5 govt cars in capitol. These few facilities are justified for them because they are working day and night in their offices for this country.

If you get an opportunity to visit an office of some high army official, you will realize how much spare time they enjoy.

My dear bro.. Go. look outside. A plot is not only given to a 22grade officer. Even 17 grade officer is getting plots. Go and check the sector of I-8/2. you will know. A 17 grade CDA officer was alloted a 10 marla plot 2 years back.
17-20 grade officer cant afford the rent of home in Islamabad city? brother? This is not 1980. Its 2011. Even 16 grade clerk can afford to live in Islamabad city.
House rent of a 18 grade officer is 13 thousand in govt. In semi govt like PTCL,PTA,Fab,etc allocates 25 thousand house rent to their 18 grade officer.
About cars.
When PTA chairman was retired. 10 cars of Govt came back from his home like Cruiser. Range rover. Corollas. Cultus. Sportage. Yes 10 cars..!!
Yes a 20 grade officer is entitled a Cultus.. But when he goes in a field duty. He also takes a car from that duty too.
I know these things very well bro.

If u get any chance to visit home of a bureaucrat above 21 or 21 grade. You will also know what type of charming life they are living.
Their assistant, deputy directors work. and they sit in office for the whole day.
Even in PAC meetings. They cant properly answer PAC chairman and Audit department.
Their sons are driving Merc, Supras, Beemers. from where this all money comes?
I think you know very well.

[Xulfiqar]

I liked it because I know the above to be very true.

[sk_020]

So you are saying that OUR forces and intelligence are so lame that they cannot detect aircraft and they had no idea that Laden was actually there - WHY ARE THE FORCES THERE FOR?

for the thinking bit - What do you think the world thinks now, They think of our forces are comical after that incident.

What next - someone drives over the border and blows up an entire city and we get a reason - that it was a stealth operation by someone and we had no idea.

One thing Xulfiqar bhai.
When mumbai city was attacked. and whole city was under disaster. Did indian people and indian media blame their army? intelligence? or Navy?.

They directly blamed Pakistan. and ISI and Lashkar e tayyaba.

Even till now. Its proved. That their own people were also in this attack. Still they blame ISI and Pakistan.
This is the difference in Leadership.. Media.. of india and Pakistan.

[levin]

@airomerix

there is something called planning, if planning went wrong , admit it. yes its true when a city habitants get over populated, they tend to move out, ive seen that happening but not in Pk.

human wants a certain amount of distance and privacy too,, rich or poor.

living inside Pk, talking about other countries is not right, go and spend few years , you will learn a lot what is real planning and how its been implemented.

[hunnyahmed]

My dear bro.. Go. look outside. A plot is not only given to a 22grade officer. Even 17 grade officer is getting plots. Go and check the sector of I-8/2. you will know. A 17 grade CDA officer was alloted a 10 marla plot 2 years back.
17-20 grade officer cant afford the rent of home in Islamabad city? brother? This is not 1980. Its 2011. Even 16 grade clerk can afford to live in Islamabad city.
House rent of a 18 grade officer is 13 thousand in govt. In semi govt like PTCL,PTA,Fab,etc allocates 25 thousand house rent to their 18 grade officer.
About cars.
When PTA chairman was retired. 10 cars of Govt came back from his home like Cruiser. Range rover. Corollas. Cultus. Sportage. Yes 10 cars..!!
Yes a 20 grade officer is entitled a Cultus.. But when he goes in a field duty. He also takes a car from that duty too.
I know these things very well bro.

If u get any chance to visit home of a bureaucrat above 21 or 21 grade. You will also know what type of charming life they are living.
Their assistant, deputy directors work. and they sit in office for the whole day.
Even in PAC meetings. They cant properly answer PAC chairman and Audit department.
Their sons are driving Merc, Supras, Beemers. from where this all money comes?
I think you know very well.

1. If an officer of CDA has done some kind of corruption why are u referring again and again to him?

2. Can u find a good home in ISL for 13k? Ask yourself.

3.There are some authorities and corporations of govt who makes their own revenue,and work as autonomous bodies. An example is OGDCL, their employees enjoy high pays and other benefits because their employer is the highest profit making company of govt of Pakistan. This is just like army officers on UN missions etc. Quoting their example is not justified, and that too is in some cases not every.

1. I have visited many of them, and apart from the one's which were having strong family background ( of which many DMG officers belong) or were corrupt, I was unable to find a lavish living.

[Xulfiqar]

One thing Xulfiqar bhai.
When mumbai city was attacked. and whole city was under disaster. Did indian people and indian media blame their army? intelligence? or Navy?.

They directly blamed Pakistan. and ISI and Lashkar e tayyaba.

Even till now. Its proved. That their own people were also in this attack. Still they blame ISI and Pakistan.
This is the difference in Leadership.. Media.. of india and Pakistan.

Of course they did - its a systematic approach, you depute armed military at the borders and police within - if something gets through, then its not the media or news rats who have the last word, It begs to see it through clean eyesight. They used their media to their favour - our media is usually half asleep anyway.

levin - you sir - have put the cherry on the cake.

[sk_020]

1. If an officer of CDA has done some kind of corruption why are u referring again and again to him?

2. Can u find a good home in ISL for 13k? Ask yourself.

3.There are some authorities and corporations of govt who makes their own revenue,and work as autonomous bodies. An example is OGDCL, their employees enjoy high pays and other benefits because their employer is the highest profit making company of govt of Pakistan. This is just like army officers on UN missions etc. Quoting their example is not justified, and that too is in some cases not every.

4. I have visited many of them, and apart from the one's which were having strong family background ( of which many DMG officers belong) or were corrupt, I was unable to find a lavish living.

your knowledge is very short about govt.
Each and every officer of CDA got plots in I-8.. Its not an individual person.
I'm damn sure. Its even discussed in PAC meetings regarding plots distribution.

Good home? You can find a good home in sector I-9 & I-10 in 13-15k. one portion. I believe.

Ok if i quote Ministries, senate. They also come under federal govt. They are also enjoying more benefits and high salaries than other departments.

U have visited most of them right?
But when u will see them in PAC meetings. You will know about them.
About their corruptions. You will even see them infront of Audit officials. Requesting them to settle their paras like their servants. I myself seen these types of scenes too..

[hunnyahmed]

your knowledge is very short about govt.
Each and every officer of CDA got plots in I-8.. Its not an individual person.
I'm damn sure. Its even discussed in PAC meetings regarding plots distribution.

Good home? You can find a good home in sector I-9 & I-10 in 13-15k. one portion. I believe.

Ok if i quote Ministries, senate. They also come under federal govt. They are also enjoying more benefits and high salaries than other departments.

U have visited most of them right?
But when u will see them in PAC meetings. You will know about them.
About their corruptions. You will even see them infront of Audit officials. Requesting them to settle their paras like their servants. I myself seen these types of scenes too..

Bro my info is not less. I know that the employees of all development authorities get plots in their schemes and societies. It was u who was targeting about one CDA officer so i said that.

Ministries? what do u mean ministries? All departments r ministries and they almost have same levels of facilities. Senate, PM Secretariat, NA and presidency have extra bonuses etc. Anyways bro, u talking about corruption and as I said earlier that is an all together different topic.

[airomerix]

@levin, Xulfiqar

I admit that our army is currently 'failing' to do what it is supposed to do as said by you regarding May 2 operations etc but cursing army ALONE for it will not do that job.

What pisses me off is when ever a major/colonel comes up to sell his car on PW, some guys start to QUESTION him from where and how he is driving that car. From where did he get the money etc? Like all army personnel were road sided vandals before joining it? And yes from there all anti army guys gather and support him because they think that his car actually belongs to THEM (tax payers money etc).

If we talk about corruption, its like you start to beat up a Lieutenant because his commander is a moron?

As for army as a whole, we have to be rational. We already know our whole military and civil high brass is stuck under american feet. If thats so then voting our current leadership and then cursing army will make you look like a stupid.

P.S

Hillary Clinton was VERY right. If you dont want America then stop taking Aid. But No! We will take aid because this practice was given to us by our own ancestors. :S

[airomerix]

This long post becomes invalid because there's not a single person out there patrolling, not a single army men - unless someone decides to ring the bells of one of their bases.

You live in karachi so you know better. But i visited karachi this january and I saw atleast one Army mobile on every chowk. I think its pretty fair considering they are actually doing 'police' work in PEACE time if any. No?

Sometimes you look like you're being paid by Armed forces to protect their image at Pakwheels.

No im not getting paid or anything. But everyone tends to blame the military because he donot gets a plot from his bank or pan shop.

Xulfiqar - Before you, there was anonpak, Doc, trueye, and alot more sane minded folks with whom you could have had a debate without tempers firing up and they had some facts backing up their claims, or atleast something substantial to back their posts.

Lets just hope that you do not abandon PW like those guys did because of these...... well, you know.

Thank you Baber

[sk_020]

No im not getting paid or anything. But everyone tends to blame the military because he donot gets a plot from his bank or pan shop.

Oops... :P.. Problem to sab ko yehi hay ..

[Xulfiqar]

Im not questioning the current situation - Im questioning it since inception, Our army loves to come into power and do whatever they wish and when the going gets tough, it steps aside for the latest muppet to take the reigns of the already booed down carriage.

When they fail in their jobs - they come up with childish responses - Its simply arrogance, I'll give you a little example - when I was running my shop, I gave thorough analysis of the in question vehicle and presented options. Not childish reasons of - factory fault hai yeh etc. I charged money for my quality analysis and service.

Similarly when working in the data networks field - I was awarded entire projects from cradle to grave - If something went wrong - its my duty to get it working again, thats what I was getting paid for.

So reasoning of out of our controls do not count, If your job is to protect and serve then DO IT, If you are part of the Intel then DO IT. The entire forces have become so weak that alien gangsters can enter Pakistan land and to top it a PAKISTAN NAVY SHIP and grenade it. It doesnt get more obvious that some appointed operation is either missing or simply ignorant or actually part of it.

I may sound arrogant or unpatriotic But please look through it - compare it to history, you will find something interesting. The most recent, The Mogul empire, busy eating qorma and pilau fighting with own relatives while the East India Trading company quietly uprooted them.

[sk_020]

^^.
Defending borders and running a shop differ from each other. We are sitting here and saying that Army forces cant defend terrorists entering in our country.

If you look at the situation of Waziristan. and u already said u went to waziristan too before operation.
Things are so much different than before. Please. Now go there and have a look at the condition of that place.
2 years back. When terrorists were Near peshawar and were in shabqadar.
Do you know what they used to behave with residents there?
They wont even let anybody go out of shabqadar. I dont want to explain more.

15000 officers and jawans lost their lives for this country. and still you are saying that forces are doing nothing?

Ask people of South waziristan/Swat about present conditions and also ask what were the conditions before.
Our own people are caught red-handed supporting militants.
Forces have suffered great loss due to this terrorism.
Our own people were supporting them. Proofs have been provided to this govt that India and other neighbouring countries are the main culprits. But still this Media and govt is silent like Rats..

[MominHaq]

The Mogul empire, busy eating qorma and pilau fighting with own relatives while the East India Trading company quietly uprooted them.

A great example that pretty much explains the current situation in its entirety.

[Bombaywalla]

One thing Xulfiqar bhai.
When mumbai city was attacked. and whole city was under disaster. Did indian people and indian media blame their army? intelligence? or Navy?.

They directly blamed Pakistan. and ISI and Lashkar e tayyaba.

Even till now. Its proved. That their own people were also in this attack.
Still they blame ISI and Pakistan.
This is the difference in Leadership.. Media.. of india and Pakistan.

//MOD EDIT:

Self admitted off topic comments removed.

//

P.S: Sorry for going O/T, but stupid statements require clarification.

[levin]

toffeejalebi started the topic,, lets get him.

aftari for all who replied on the topic by him

[airomerix]

//MOD EDIT:

Self admitted off topic comments removed.

//

P.S: Sorry for going O/T, but stupid statements require clarification.

//MOD EDIT:

Self admitted off topic comments removed.

//
p.S

Sorry for going Off topic. Had to CLARIFY some inhumane posts. :S

[sk_020]

Missed what bombaywalla wrote. :S. I wish i could see to answer his post

[MominHaq]

Missed what bombaywalla wrote. :S. I wish i could see to answer his post

Answer or argue pointlessly?

[BackToCivicFaiez]

you are either too young or something else, I can take your statement and say that you are implying that the ISI works pro-bono - but I would not, becuase it doesnt.

Please stop deviating from the discussion on the table. If it were intelligence working for the country - your rupee/dollar parity or the security situation would not have looked like it is now.

How does your Houston statement fit in please?

10,000 men risking their lives, their families' lives, not getting paid enough and living under the worst of conditions to keep the nation's secrets gaurded ( nobody knows where the bombs are, the reason why no one is going to risk a nuclear war to take over vast amounts of resources in our country ).

And you're telling me its not national interest?

So tell me what you think they are doing? You say they have sold the country, but they havent received the payment, have they?
You are saying people who can maintain such a high level of secrecy for such a long time are just plain idiots?
Once you get in power, dissolve the ISI and see what happens to national security.