Real Haunted Stories / Unexplained Phenomenon / Paranormal Activities

[mohtashimiqbal]

@automotorsport_lover

just wait until some one jumps , and labels you as a "conspiracy theorist " , lol , it seems like today , the people have invented this word as an excuse to close their eyes from truth .

yes i have seen the arrivals too a long time back , but i have been following other people like alex john , and rik clay , david icke too ,
of course a lot of things in a longer run turn out to be pointless .

but if a person looks with a keen eye , he might be able to pick up some golden info from all this supposedly junk of conspiracy theories flowing from everywhere.

The arrivals , was very good indeed , try following david Icke , that man has made sense whenever he explains seriously .

[rizkhan2010]

ok , yes i agree on the people part absolutely who support this ban .
i m more on the middle way instead .

the idea is exactly the same and useless , like they pop-up to ban nestle , ban Pepsi on every occasion ,
utter BS , and useless .

islam never bans trade with any one .

for HSS , use chrome only , and install the adblock add-on , no adware you would see.

now coming back to the valley part ,
I absolutely agree with you , and clarify that by raising an eyebrow , i never meant that i was suspecting it with some supernatural activity , i am totally open to understand this gravity thing as this is definitely the reason , no djinn nothing at all there ,

what creeps me out that why is it happening at the place , where according to the hadith , a major mega event is supposed to take place .

that is why i was willing to know that this has been happening there since forever , or has recently started ,
cause i was suspecting a bit ( personally) , that if these mystic happenings have started there recently , then we are surely very near to that mega event that is told in hadith , to take place at the valley of bai 'daah .

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Most probably this phenomenon is there since the beginning of time. The fact that traditionally this valley is called valley of-jinn in Saudia for hundreds of years is an indication that this apparently uneven gravitational pull has been there since long. Local people would have thought it to be a unique place until the existence of several other such places around the world was known.
However, Saudia is a huge country with a lot of other strange places which invoke curiosity. But dont forget that Saudia is a closed society which discourages openness and independent research due to various reasons. For example the thing in Saudi Arabia that fascinates me more is the world largest desert "Ruba-al-Khali" a.k.a Empty Quarter ..almost equal to the size of entire Pakistan (its towards the South Eastern parts of Saudia, large part of UAE, northern parts of Oman and north-eastern Yemen). It is so huge that except until recently (mid 2oth century) it was not even fully explored. The desert is believed to carry large oil aquifers. Even today, people know scant about the inhospitable desert.

[Automotorsport_Lover]

@automotorsport_lover

just wait until some one jumps , and labels you as a "conspiracy theorist " , lol , it seems like today , the people have invented this word as an excuse to close their eyes from truth .

yes i have seen the arrivals too a long time back , but i have been following other people like alex john , and rik clay , david icke too ,
of course a lot of things in a longer run turn out to be pointless .

but if a person looks with a keen eye , he might be able to pick up some golden info from all this supposedly junk of conspiracy theories flowing from everywhere.

The arrivals , was very good indeed , try following david Icke , that man has made sense whenever he explains seriously .

Yes ur correct...
I've followed allex johns but not much of others... plus yea sometimes they talk about things which are pretty pointless... such as 2012 Olympics ... they made a great fuss about it but nothing happened.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

[Xulfiqar]

@ mohtashim,

you have some real oddball views of the world - blaming a demise or situation on a certain people wont help because as a collective we have never ever tried to do anything that would develop into a learning science. anyway

you mention Lucifer as a djinn - wasnt he an angel?

[mohtashimiqbal]

@xulfiqar

its not about about blaming , but the signs of their existence are just too much to ignore ,

and i will absolutely not blame them but ourselves if someone has to be blamed , because it is our failure
that we have moved away from our foundations , and gave them space to seep and rot into the fundamental base of our faith , i.e our LAW . ( my signature speaks loud here)

a lot of it can be still done , but its better to spare it as it would stretch into another direction .
anyway ,

no , lucifer , aka Iblees , was not an angel , he was a djinn by species . That is what i have been trying to tell you since the beginning..
when we combine all available ayah's and all available hadith relative to this topic .

we find out , that Ibless was a Djinn by species , but due to his piousness he got a darja ( position) from Allah of that of an angel ,
from this we mean that his deeds were like that like of an angel , who doesn't have any free will , or nafs and all they do is to follow the command of Allah (swt) .

as contradictory to the species of human and djinn , whom Allah has granted a free will , and nafs .

here is the ayat ,

surah e kahaf verse 50 .

Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam": they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrongdoers! (50)

[Xulfiqar]

I believe your comment will spiral this conversation into the missing definitions of Angels and Djinns, it is quite a long one. I did a long paper on this once and it still is with my old teacher. There were 3 arguments from 3 different groups and one sentence that i had put in actually blocked all.

If Allah speaks that the angels were commanded to bow - all did except iblees - cannot imply that he was one djinn lounging about between the bunch of angels. Allah's command, word and doings are absolute. People have put up the arabic grammatic theory etc. But Allah does not speak arabic, infact his language is unknown to humankind.

Then the very definition of being created from "fire" and angels from "light". That was quite a long one. With old evidences from all books the difference of djinn and angel is still not fully clear. So one cannot try to guess what is what.

Anyway, for my sake - Satan should be kicked in the butt, djinn, angel or hybrid - Nothing refuses my Allah's will. had ye not seen water - it is your source of life, On one command - it rises and falls (examples are tsunami etc) yet does not say that I am superior as they rely on me. had ye not seen air - it is required by you, it also follows command BUT never claims of being superior, on one command it will acelerate to high speed and tear down anything in its path.

my first and last para was to explain that when Allah commands a certain "makhlooq" only that/those can respond back.

[mohtashimiqbal]

where our own intellect fails to understand and interpret accordingly , this is where hadith comes in force to explain what exactly is being stated , the book of hadith tell us that the angels are made of noor ,
and the djinn are made for fire..
and the human is made of mud ,

Quran obviously is the upper hand ,
at some places the hadith help out explaining the matter easily ,
at some places they get into a direct conflict , ( in this case we disregard the hadith )
at some places it sheds light on an area outside the circle ...
( in this case we check if it conflicts with any other sahih hadith with more witnesses)

it all depends on the meaning you derive out of any sacred text .
if its contradicting Quran or some really valid sahih hadith synchronized with quran , then we disregard it .

and by hadith yes i mean HADITH ONLY .( the words of prophet Muhammad ( s.a.w.w)
because in the books of hadith there are two entities .

1. words of Muhammad (s.a.w)
2. riwayaat /incidents that happened during that time which involved no words of the prophet ( s.a.w) .
   riwayaat again have to be thoroughly checked if they contradict with any hadith or ayat of quran .

if the riwayat contradicts , we again disregard it reject it .

hence , its upto you which way you may want to learn the quran ,

for me QURAN is the Word of Allah
hadith is the word of Muhammad (s.a.w.w)

Quran stays the upper hand in authenticating a hadith , but without the hadith we must not dare to get into all this " bareeeeki " that you are willing to ,
a sahih hadith comes before our interpretation/opinion about a matter .

[U]it speaks clearly that iblees was a djinn as his species...

[/U]rest is your free will how u may want to understand it .

i had more to say , but but i will cut it short because i will start speaking Ilmi language here it would confuse more people , so lets agree that he was a Djinn as the Quran says , and carry on

i will give one daleel on this ,

a teacher narrates ,

[U]that i ordered all the girls to get out of the class , and xulfiqar went out with all the girls . and he was among the boys .

now this doesn't make xulfiqar a girl :)[/U]

[Xulfiqar]

why would I walk out when the girls are ordered out of the class? For me to do that I would either be deaf (follow as see) or mentally retarded.

If you are trying to force the arabic grammar thing here then you are assuming that a djinn was lounging about hanging around with his angel buddies and followed what the angels were commanded. Just like my above reply - you cannot expect me to follow a command that is NOT FOR ME. for simplicity sake - if your PC has an interrupt query conflict - you dont assume that the now conficting item has morphed into something else out of its own will. There is no explanation to why a djinn followed command meant for an angel - this would open a bigger can of worms.

Your explanations above wont carry enough water - because you yourself have time and again challenged the very limits of Allah's creations within this same thread.

anyway - popcorn time.. this thread is now comical. Guys on this thread must have met, seen or slept with djinns and their female counterparts somehow - but not me and I know I cannot either. Its a boundary that is not in my capacity to breach this is not a postulate - its faith.

[mohtashimiqbal]

lol , no no no

i m not forcing anything , the matter has been explained well in hadith its not theoratical ,
the djinn species existed on earth before humans ,and they used to travel into skies ,

Iblees was the only jinn that was allowed in the heavens among the angels , because of his deeds , he was indeed very pious and obedient . so he was the only one of his kind who was present among the angels in heavens .

so Allah swt commanded all the angels ( that were present there ) to bow down before adam , so as iblees was there it was binding on him too as Allah ( swt) had blessed him inside heavens and among angels .

so then he refused , and then he was thrown on to the earth .

i can even get you references if you insist , there are a lot of hadith availabale on this issue.

later all the djinn species were thrown on the earth , and they could no longer listen to angels from the gate of heavens , ( because previously they used to steal news from heavens ) ( this is in quran )

and then Allah cast a wall of fire onto the skies and they no longer could reach the gates of heaven , ( previously they could )
and only iblees was let in due to his deeds .

u will get some of the extracts in surah e jinn some in surah e namal , and some from hadith what i have told .

i HOPE this time i am clear.

[Xulfiqar]

^^ That creates even more holes... As I said there are no explicit definitions of the "species" the only definition of species of both is only of their base matter. So either the concept of Angel and Djinn is not fully explained - as an angel can be evil also just like a djinn cannot be evil, or they are both addressed the same, <--- trying to explain this with your sentence of me following the girls out of the class would be.

All girls were asked to leave the room - all left except one - she was of "so and so origin"

so and so origin can be "chinese, black, caucasean, indian, etc" - this gives you a spread of variety staying in one vertical.

the concept of earth is also different as creations of pure smokeless fire do not need the boundaries of earth as we know at our current capacity. neither do creations of pure unseen light.

[mohtashimiqbal]

ok , simple and short .

there are all girls sitting in a classrroom , and only Xulfiqar is there as a boy .
teacher yells , GET OUT ALL OF YOU.
All the girls leave the class , but Xulfiqar doesnt .

and then the teacher narrates .
I told all the girls to get out from the class , but xulfiqar didnt , and he was a boy .

[Xulfiqar]

ok , simple and short .

there are all girls sitting in a classrroom , and only Xulfiqar is there as a boy .
teacher yells , GET OUT ALL OF YOU.
All the girls leave the class , but Xulfiqar doesnt .

and then the teacher narrates .
I told all the girls to get out from the class , but xulfiqar didnt , and he was a boy .

How does this fit? the command is for EVERYONE - if the person xulfiqar does not follow then its denial of order.

btw in this case the teacher needs a "loaded panadol" - first command is for everyone, the later narration is only for girls.

[mohtashimiqbal]

yes denial of order , that is what iblees did , dint he ?

Allah swt ordered billions maybe zillions ( Allah knows best ) Angels to BOW down before Adam .
only one was a jinn there .

now there are two ways to narrate it ,

1. Allah (swt) ordered 8776549809230486723846 angels and 1 jinn to bow down before adam , and iblis the jinn did not .

2. Allah swt ordered the angles to bow down before adam , but iblees did not , and he was a jinn .

so for me and any sane person this is enough information to understand ... as Allah has told .
(that iblees was an exception amongst the angels while being a different species)

while u are more than welcome to go and scratch the numericals .

now Allah said "bow down to adam" thats it ,
this was binding on everyone present there in heavens ,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx angles and one jinn .

Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam": they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrongdoers! (50)

[Xulfiqar]

you got it wrong again.

Im saying that his commands are absolute and directed. he commanded ALL angels - then tells that one did not bow and it was a djinn - this means that there were more djinns present there which followed similar command. So are djinns a "type" of angel?

In all books of Allah, satan is a fallen angel - it means that he was damned, which aligns with the Qoran too when he was interrogated. It speaks of Iblees being an angel more than 5 times and then explains him as a djinn and he speaks of being made of fire - the very definition of "djinn" - It does not say that he refused on a background of him not being an angel but directly that he spoke of his creation - this leads to the question of the real meaning of the word "angel" is it a cluster of species or ONE single species.

You have a boat load of such ilm - you obviously would know what this is - it has been asked a number of times.

[mohtashimiqbal]

all the previous books and all the hadith stand none against the statement that IBLEES was a jinn ( as Quran says )

plus , the matter is explained in hadith , so i will consider Muhammad(saw) first as a muslim ,

while u can go and study bible and torah . and derive any definition for anything that is contradictory.
you can even go and read ramayan and geeta they might be bought by some prophet too .

for me Quran is the starting and the ending , only only next best thing to Quran is Hadith , the words of my prophet Muhammad( s.a.w) .

You have a free choice , live it , and believe what you want .

[Xulfiqar]

by your rationale.

lets say you work in the network infrastructure security offices of a firm and all the application support team are called for a meeting - You follow them without reason.

Explain that in your terms.

The Qoran says that "ANGELS" were commanded - and one djinn did not follow, which raises a question - We all know that Allah is absolute and never can mistake. This leads to the question of why was there was an odd one out. This can mean that angels are a collective of species as iblees (damn him) has been called an angel too multiple times.

Coming back to this thread. Ive finished my popcorn..

[Xulfiqar]

all the previous books and all the hadith stand none against the statement that IBLEES was a jinn ( as Quran says )

plus , the matter is explained in hadith , so i will consider Muhammad(saw) first as a muslim ,

while u can go and study bible and torah . and derive any definition for anything that is contradictory.
you can even go and read ramayan and geeta they might be bought by some prophet too .

for me Quran is the starting and the ending , only only next best thing to Quran is Hadith , the words of my prophet Muhammad( s.a.w) .

You have a free choice , live it , and believe what you want .

The Qoran is surely complete - but it does not mean that you block out yourself. In the book the mention of the nutcase Iblees being an angel is also present - You seem to be offended by this and are assuming that I am some sort of weirdo believer - which you tried to imply in some previous pages.

Im arguing on the logic that makes it interesting.. You claim to have a lot of ilm - but say that you are limited to the Qoran only - It speaks of old civilizations bygone - which are explainable by history and also the previous books - (yes I do agree they are not in the original form now - but all the missing links of those books were explained by the Qoran - that is how I converted 2 guys to become muslim)

[mohtashimiqbal]

ive already answered it two replies back , no point in asking the same question again and again ,

now its time for me to GRAB the popcorn bag ...

Allah swt ordered billions maybe zillions ( Allah knows best ) Angels to BOW down before Adam .
only one was a jinn there .

now there are two ways to narrate it ,

1. Allah (swt) ordered 8776549809230486723846 angels and 1 jinn to bow down before adam , and iblis the jinn did not .

2. Allah swt ordered the angles to bow down before adam , but iblees did not , and he was a jinn .

so for me and any sane person this is enough information to understand ... as Allah has told .
(that iblees was an exception amongst the angels while being a different species) ( understanding with help of hadith )

[Xulfiqar]

to each his own... - by your sentence Im not sane.

[mohtashimiqbal]

oh and plus ,

Allah forbid if i may ever ever make such a claim , everyone's a learner till they breath their last.

and no one is blocking Quran out ,
next best thing is hadith , ( which obviously you are seemingly ruling out which is explaining the whole matter easily )
then our historical elements ,

then out of the circle is science ,
we go by it as long as it doesnt contradict with quran .
Thats it , nothing can contradict with the upper hand in control , this is the hierarchy , while you are free to define your case.

and no i dont think you are a WIERDO believer , and on the previous pages it was a strictly general fact i told , and surprizingly u took it on yourself .