Resurrecting a 1948 Jaguar 1-1/2 liter Saloon

[capsat]

Abbasi saheb ALLAH (swt) ap ko aur apki Jaguar ko tammam ajeeb-o-ghareeb drivers' sai_mahfooz rakhay

[VEEeight]

I wonder if there is a way around the leaking radiator using something comparatively modern without deviating too much from the car's patina. The problem with these non pressure systems is the tendency to boil over a lot quicker than with a conventional one but I imagine the car being used mostly in winter, so it may not be such an issue.
Longmans are an old comfortable sort of name. It's a long story but about 20 years ago they helped me out with some head gaskets for a Buick I have.....apparently not a big deal, but it was , as although the gaskets were identical but they each had to be of a diff thickness and only they had the right materials for that at the time.
As for the Vitz driver, he seems to have an awful lot of relatives here in Lahore

[msabbasi]

Abbasi saheb ALLAH (swt) ap ko aur apki Jaguar ko tammam ajeeb-o-ghareeb drivers' sai_mahfooz rakhay

Ameen .....

[msabbasi]

I wonder if there is a way around the leaking radiator using something comparatively modern without deviating too much from the car's patina. The problem with these non pressure systems is the tendency to boil over a lot quicker than with a conventional one but I imagine the car being used mostly in winter, so it may not be such an issue.
Longmans are an old comfortable sort of name. It's a long story but about 20 years ago they helped me out with some head gaskets for a Buick I have.....apparently not a big deal, but it was , as although the gaskets were identical but they each had to be of a diff thickness and only they had the right materials for that at the time.
As for the Vitz driver, he seems to have an awful lot of relatives here in Lahore

Just watch out for the dreaded Vitz walla.

It seems that this hole was repaired earlier with a small steel disc placed over the hole and secured with a clamp. Up to this time I thought the clamp was part of the radiator design. It was not until I removed the clamp and hammered at the small disc that I realized that it was a repair attempted decades ago. I have used the same steel disc with some 625 degree RTV. It is held in place with a jubilee clamp. Sounds very "jugari" but due to the danger explained earlier, I cannot think of a better repair solution.

As far as these types of systems are easy to boil over, you are 100% correct. Modern systems operate under pressure (about 0.9 Kg/cm2) which raises the boiling point of the water to about 115 degrees C. Same principle as a pressure cooker. A higher temperature is needed because today's engines are much, much higher performing compared to yesteryear engines i.e. they have higher specific output. Today’s Civic 1.8 has a displacement of 1799cc and produces 138bhp (specific power output 76.7 hp/lit) while the old girl has an engine displacement of 1776cc (almost same as the civic) but only produces 65bhp (specific power output 36.1 hp/lit). Thus we can see that today's cars produce about twice the power of old cars and so generate a huge amount heat thus the need for the pressurized systems.

As far as this particular car is concerned, its normal design operating temperature is 75 degrees C. On very hot days while standing at idle I have seen the temp rise to as much as 85 degrees which drops down to about 80 as soon as the car is on the move. During winter months the temp is steady at 75 in all situations - standing or on the move. This I remeber as a kid because dad always was watching the temp gauge.

[VEEeight]

You may well not agree with this but experience has shown just how effective some jugaars can be!
In my prev post I had mentioned the issue of the head gaskets on a Buick. What my moron mechanic had done at the time was to get the heads skimmed individually conveniently forgetting the central plate that links the heads as they are bolted onto the block. After the furor of how the engine had been ruined died down, the centre plate was literally rubbed down to size with the heads semi tightly bolted to the block but it got to the point where some of the ports would be damaged if the sanding was to continue. One head had been cut excessively. The only answer was a thicker gasket under that head. This was done and is okay to this day 20 years later!

In my opinion, in our environment with genuine spares not easily available or prohibitively expensive esp given the exch rates, if a plausible, practical alteration is possible, it is the way to go. However, it is a very tricky balance.

As for pressure based cooling system, I rem how in the early years , I drove an Accord also with a blown h/gasket all thru the winter months witn the radiator cap removed. Just had to top up with water every other day or so

Yes, the trials and tribulations of old car running does indeed bring sanity into question

[msabbasi]

You may well not agree with this but experience has shown just how effective some jugaars can be!
In my prev post I had mentioned the issue of the head gaskets on a Buick. What my moron mechanic had done at the time was to get the heads skimmed individually conveniently forgetting the central plate that links the heads as they are bolted onto the block. After the furor of how the engine had been ruined died down, the centre plate was literally rubbed down to size with the heads semi tightly bolted to the block but it got to the point where some of the ports would be damaged if the sanding was to continue. One head had been cut excessively. The only answer was a thicker gasket under that head. This was done and is okay to this day 20 years later!

In my opinion, in our environment with genuine spares not easily available or prohibitively expensive esp given the exch rates, if a plausible, practical alteration is possible, it is the way to go. However, it is a very tricky balance.

As for pressure based cooling system, I rem how in the early years , I drove an Accord also with a blown h/gasket all thru the winter months witn the radiator cap removed. Just had to top up with water every other day or so

Yes, the trials and tribulations of old car running does indeed bring sanity into question

Head skimming is only done if the head is badly warped. If the head is slightly out of true, I prefer to lap the head on a piece of thick glass because machining takes away too much material. In your case a thicker gasket was the only way to go.

I gather from your post that the Buick is still around. Pictures?

The plate you are referring to is called a compression plate. It was also used in my car's model so as to combat low quality petrol available during and after the WWII. However in this car it has been omitted by the factory, perhaps, due to better fuel quality. Despite not having a compression plate, the compression ratio is a very low 7.5:1 as compared to 10:1 for today's cars. As you know higher compression ratio means you get a bigger bang during the ignition cycle of the engine.

What happened to your Buick was inevitable. Other symptoms apart from a blown head gasket usually are; running hot, knocking and finally pistons with holes in them, otherwise called, Holy pistons.

My sanity has been beyond question for a long, long time:)

[VCheng]

Thank you for such a glowing tribute. Hardly deserved. Car was good to begin with. Insha Allah will make it to the VCCCP show this November if they make it.

Had a bit of an altercation with a Vitz. I was standing still at a traffic light with a respectable gap between me and the car in front. This jack--s tried to squeeze his Vitz in the gap. I blew and blew the horn (car has a very loud horn) to stop him but he just kept going. He scraped my fender (pic below) and his car was scraped from bumper to bumper all along the left side. Just as he did his deed, the light changed, I chased him down 'ala' Need for Speed style and got him. Just asked him one question, "WHAT ON EARTH WERE YOU THINKING??????. Said I was saving right side of my Vitz. I felt like slapping him silly. Well son, your car also has a left side in case you didn't know. Only thing that made me happy was that his car needed a full repaint on the left side.

So back we go to the paint shop.

This is an ever present danger of taking a classic car on the road. The driver of the said car may exercise care while driving his pride and joy but the roads are full of jerks that can't drive. Hence forth the car will be only taken out during non-rush hour traffic.

What grand old veteran does not have a war scar or two to show, with a story to go with it?

[msabbasi]

What grand old veteran does not have a war scar or two to show, with a story to go with it?

VCheng,

True but this part of the car was painted not more than a month ago at the cost of 35,000/-. I was rather happy with the paint job, see page 8, post # 183.

If it was a genuine accident I'd not be feeling so bad about it. Just very annoyed at the way the whole thing happened. The Vitz man stopped next to my car for a few minutes. Eyeballed the gap thought his 5-1/2 ft wide car will go through a 5 ft wide gap and just proceeded to shove his car in the gap. Here I was madly blowing my horn to stop him even before our cars came into contact with each other. WHAT A FOOL!! And to add insult to injury, once the cars touched, normal reaction is to stop the car immediately...but nooooo the FOOL just went on going and going as his car took paint from my car from end to end. WHAT A MORON!!

Anyway, will be posting pictures of the repainted section soon.

[VEEeight]

Your frustration is understandable, justified and needs to be vented out. It's the sheer "unnecessariness" of it and how EASILY It could have been avoided. At such times it feels almost as if the other guy wanted to do it deliberately. This s NOT the sort of "patina" you want on the car.

You're very right about these old GM engines but my share of holed pistons came about on the XJ's original engine when it dropped a valve during just idling. Am sure THAT was bec the head had been skimmed just once too often. I always found these engines a bit rough. The 2.8 version was even worse but the 3.4 revved a lot better, felt smoother.

The Buick is sort of mothballed at the moment. It's an all original 1974 Electra Limited with the 455cu:in ( 7.4litre) very torquey but still rather all f#^t and no s%^t engine. Plz excuse the French but a better way of describing this isn't coming to mind just yet! It is one of the 4 ( I believe) that were specially airlifted along with 6 LeSabres on an emergency basis for the Islamic summit conference in 1974 bec, as the story goes, Mercedes were not committing to supply the stretched 115s.

I managed to get hold of it in 1993 when it was languishing out in the open in a workshop here in Lahore. At the time it belonged to Peshawar-based film producer and has apparently appeared in a few Pushto movies!

Am sending a picture of it taken a few months ago. It's currently still jacked up and I intend to get it back on the road with some gentle refurbishing during the next summer, much on the same lines as what you have done on the jaguar. The OTHER picture is the main reason for putting it up on bricks as I can't possibly manage both at the same time !!!!

[msabbasi]

Your frustration is understandable, justified and needs to be vented out. It's the sheer "unnecessariness" of it and how EASILY It could have been avoided. At such times it feels almost as if the other guy wanted to do it deliberately. This s NOT the sort of "patina" you want on the car.

You're very right about these old GM engines but my share of holed pistons came about on the XJ's original engine when it dropped a valve during just idling. Am sure THAT was bec the head had been skimmed just once too often. I always found these engines a bit rough. The 2.8 version was even worse but the 3.4 revved a lot better, felt smoother.

The Buick is sort of mothballed at the moment. It's an all original 1974 Electra Limited with the 455cu:in ( 7.4litre) very torquey but still rather all f#^t and no s%^t engine. Plz excuse the French but a better way of describing this isn't coming to mind just yet! It is one of the 4 ( I believe) that were specially airlifted along with 6 LeSabres on an emergency basis for the Islamic summit conference in 1974 bec, as the story goes, Mercedes were not committing to supply the stretched 115s.

I managed to get hold of it in 1993 when it was languishing out in the open in a workshop here in Lahore. At the time it belonged to Peshawar-based film producer and has apparently appeared in a few Pushto movies!

Am sending a picture of it taken a few months ago. It's currently still jacked up and I intend to get it back on the road with some gentle refurbishing during the next summer, much on the same lines as what you have done on the jaguar. The OTHER picture is the main reason for putting it up on bricks as I can't possibly manage both at the same time !!!!

You had previously mentioned about the dropped valve on the XJ. Very sad. Nice collection of American muscle. Is that a 1976 Fleetwood? And do I detect a Caprice behind the Buick? All very nice. I drove a '88 Caprice Brougham LS (with the 1/4 vinyl roof) prior to buying the Jaguar in Saudi. It was a V8 305cid, a bit under powered but a very reliable car. Parts dirt cheap and any mechanic under a tree with a screwdriver could fix it. Picture of the car below is not mine but it looked exactly like this and was the same colour too, grey inside as well. Mine was the 4 meter dashboard version with individual front seats.

[ansarghani]

Posting few pics of '74 Buick Electra in Peshawar, perhaps one of the same Islamic Conference cars.. it's in immaculate condition.. All original!

[ansarghani]

[ansarghani]

[msabbasi]

Posting few pics of '74 Buick Electra in Peshawar, perhaps one of the same Islamic Conference cars.. it's in immaculate condition.. All original!

Very nice indeed. Looks identical to the car in the post by VEEeight!! Maybe it is one of the Islamic Summit cars.

[VCheng]

VCheng,

True but this part of the car was painted not more than a month ago at the cost of 35,000/-. I was rather happy with the paint job, see page 8, post # 183.

If it was a genuine accident I'd not be feeling so bad about it. Just very annoyed at the way the whole thing happened. The Vitz man stopped next to my car for a few minutes. Eyeballed the gap thought his 5-1/2 ft wide car will go through a 5 ft wide gap and just proceeded to shove his car in the gap. Here I was madly blowing my horn to stop him even before our cars came into contact with each other. WHAT A FOOL!! And to add insult to injury, once the cars touched, normal reaction is to stop the car immediately...but nooooo the FOOL just went on going and going as his car took paint from my car from end to end. WHAT A MORON!!

Anyway, will be posting pictures of the repainted section soon.

I do feel your pain at the unnecessary aggravation, expense and damage. But it takes the proverbial balls of steel to drive in Pakistan these days, specially in a classic like your Jaguar.

[VEEeight]

Ansarghani :

Am very sure this IS one of the elusive Islamic summit Electras especially if it also has a blue velour interior. All the 4 had that. Mine has one wheel cap missing. Would love to know more details about it. I believe one got junked and don't knw the fate of the 4th, if indeed there were just 4. I know the regn numbers of the 10 ranged from RIC 9201 to 9210. The one I ended up with is 9209

msabbasi:

The cream car is a 1976 Fleetwod Brougham with a very colourful history. It started life in California, was in London for a few years and then brought into Pak by a very well kn?wn VIP on special permission. The car next to the Buick is indeed a caprice, a 1978 "Kuwaiti" sporting a 350cu in V8 and the very rare factory fitted sun roof. About 19 years ago I managed to save it from a fate worse than being scrapped.....literally hours before it was to be diesalised!

Currently am in a quandry over this car also. ALL the trim, and as you know there is a lot of it, except for the bumpers, needs to be repaced ; as does the interior. Its been resprayed in a slightly more cheerful shade than its original reddish maroon. The trim will all have to be procured new so till the time THAT happens, the car rests. I also need those wire wheel covers.

The one you had looks grand and immaculate! I must compliment you on your dscerning choice of vehs A brougham version in white was offered from khi a few months ago, but I have enough yank tanks to contend with for now

[msabbasi]

msabbasi:

The cream car is a 1976 Fleetwod Brougham with a very colourful history. It started life in California, was in London for a few years and then brought into Pak by a very well kn?wn VIP on special permission. The car next to the Buick is indeed a caprice, a 1978 "Kuwaiti" sporting a 350cu in V8 and the very rare factory fitted sun roof. About 19 years ago I managed to save it from a fate worse than being scrapped.....literally hours before it was to be diesalised!

Currently am in a quandry over this car also. ALL the trim, and as you know there is a lot of it, except for the bumpers, needs to be repaced ; as does the interior. Its been resprayed in a slightly more cheerful shade than its original reddish maroon. The trim will all have to be procured new so till the time THAT happens, the car rests. I also need those wire wheel covers.

The one you had looks grand and immaculate! I must compliment you on your dscerning choice of vehs A brougham version in white was offered from khi a few months ago, but I have enough yank tanks to contend with for now

Thank you for the compliment. I thought the yellow car was a 76 Fleetwood.

My old Caprice was the 49 state version US imported to Saudi. It is quite common to find the US imports on the roads, Blazer/Caprice/Suburban/and so on. The speedometer on my car was marked in MPH up to 80 while the Saudi cars had KmPH marking upto 200. On the road my car's top speed was limited to 160KmPH. When I went fast, the needle used to go all the way round the gauge past 80 mph mark and beyond to about the 6 O'clock position:). Saudi version did not have the limiter and could easily do 200.

Regarding your Caprice, if it is red on the outside it should be a deep maroon on the inside. Maroon seats, carpet (very deep pile) and roof lining. You will be interested to know that in Saudi even today these Caprices are the taxi car of choice. Since there are literally thousands on the roads, parts are plentiful and very, very cheap. For instance I replaced all four shock absorbers on my Caprice at the rate of SAR 70/- each. In fact I put in the most expensive gas filled ones, regular ones were 30/- each. Side marker light (red one at the rear flank) SAR 5/- each. Bonnet logo SAR 30/-. original AC Delco or Harrison A/C compressor 300/-. All this is original GM stuff not China made. Compare these prices to my BMW 745Li. Just the rear shocks at SAR 6000/- each. If I were still in Saudi I would have gone to King Saud Road, Dammam (litered with auto shops) bought ALL your trim for SAR 2000-3000 and then gone to the interior trim shops an bought all the interior materials in the original cloth plus carpets all for another 2000 - 3000/-. When you fianally decide to get around to the Caprice, maybe Dubai might provide results. Best bet will be Al-Ghandi Auto or GM Middle East. Good thing is that even if they don't have the part, they will be happy to arrange it for you.

Cheers

[VEEeight]

Thank you for the compliment. I thought the yellow car was a 76 Fleetwood.

My old Caprice was the 49 state version US imported to Saudi. It is quite common to find the US imports on the roads, Blazer/Caprice/Suburban/and so on. The speedometer on my car was marked in MPH up to 80 while the Saudi cars had KmPH marking upto 200. On the road my car's top speed was limited to 160KmPH. When I went fast, the needle used to go all the way round the gauge past 80 mph mark and beyond to about the 6 O'clock position:). Saudi version did not have the limiter and could easily do 200.

Regarding your Caprice, if it is red on the outside it should be a deep maroon on the inside. Maroon seats, carpet (very deep pile) and roof lining. You will be interested to know that in Saudi even today these Caprices are the taxi car of choice. Since there are literally thousands on the roads, parts are plentiful and very, very cheap. For instance I replaced all four shock absorbers on my Caprice at the rate of SAR 70/- each. In fact I put in the most expensive gas filled ones, regular ones were 30/- each. Side marker light (red one at the rear flank) SAR 5/- each. Bonnet logo SAR 30/-. original AC Delco or Harrison A/C compressor 300/-. All this is original GM stuff not China made. Compare these prices to my BMW 745Li. Just the rear shocks at SAR 6000/- each. If I were still in Saudi I would have gone to King Saud Road, Dammam (litered with auto shops) bought ALL your trim for SAR 2000-3000 and then gone to the interior trim shops an bought all the interior materials in the original cloth plus carpets all for another 2000 - 3000/-. When you fianally decide to get around to the Caprice, maybe Dubai might provide results. Best bet will be Al-Ghandi Auto or GM Middle East. Good thing is that even if they don't have the part, they will be happy to arrange it for you.

Cheers

generally most car enthusiasts would identify this car as a Cadillac but zeroing in on it as 76 is specialist knowledge:)

The interior on the caprice is indeed maroon but was in a very very tatty state and will be redone. Am happy to learn that sourcing the materials I need is not going to be a live or die issue. I have been told this before also and am, for the moment, content to let the car rest on axle stands for now. I am very partial to cars with sunroofs and am glad to have this car bec of that alone. Will start on it after the Buick.

What's the latest on the Jag?

Good health!

[msabbasi]

generally most car enthusiasts would identify this car as a Cadillac but zeroing in on it as 76 is specialist knowledge:)

The interior on the caprice is indeed maroon but was in a very very tatty state and will be redone. Am happy to learn that sourcing the materials I need is not going to be a live or die issue. I have been told this before also and am, for the moment, content to let the car rest on axle stands for now. I am very partial to cars with sunroofs and am glad to have this car bec of that alone. Will start on it after the Buick.

What's the latest on the Jag?

Good health!

The sun roof was a very rare option on the Caprice. I have seen just a handful during my time in Saudi. I'd suggest not to delay working on your Caprice too long for the fear of parts getting harder to find. BTW what is needed for the Buick apart from one wheel cap? Oh I forgot to tell you, regarding the Caprice, the original wire type hub caps are very hard to find, most people were fitting a Chinese alternate. It doesn't look as smart as the original but something it is a better than nothing deal.

The Jag is a nondriver at the moment. As already mentioned, the radiator had leaked. Well it was a failure of a very old repair of the lower outlet pipe of the radiator plus the hose fitment to the same outlet was too short. Both these things contributed to the water dripping out of the radiator. Both problems have been rectified and the radiator is back in the car partially filled with water and there is on leak. But the top hose is the show stopper. I am waiting on M/S Longman to come up with the required hose. They said check back after ten days. If this fails I'll have to take up my friend on his offer to send me the hose. He is in Australia and a fellow owner of the same model. Or write to my supplier in UK to send the same. Let's see what happens. I have been toying with the idea of doing a temporary fix by wraping tape around the damaged top hose. You have mobilized me into action. I'll do the temporary repair and see if it holds. If we are good to go, I'll get an appointment at the paint shop to repair the scrape on the wing.

Cheers

[VEEeight]

Yes, so I believe. Here in Pak I have seen only one other. You make a valid point as the car was repainted 3 years ago and I should get my finger out and atleast get the parts which include all the trim along the sills, wheelarches, the side mouldings and even the windscreen surrounds. I got a screen for it which is still in its packing w?y back in 1995! Some years ago I got a set of bolt on wire RIMS so maybe they will do when the time comes. For the interior I could really do with all the trim and inside panels for the doors as the originals are well past any sort of repair even. Mechanically all was well ( last time it got driven....) right down to the cruise control AND even the power seats worked! After the Cadillac and the Buick it actually feels "small"!!!!

Speaking of the Buick, externally it just needs that wheel cover. By way of keeping a visual balance , albeit lopsided, I got the plain steel rim chromed! Inside , one of the reading lights in ( in THIS case the 'B' pillar as it is pillar less ) has an outer cover missing, the carpet in the left footwell needs sorting. The bonnet will need to be looked at nearer the time it will be mobilised as it is bubbling around the edges. Both these cars are in covered ventilated storage and are cleaned every 2/3 days but they should be out and about

As for the Jaguar, am sure the right spec hose will soon be in place but a temporary jugarr would not be entirely out of place as atleast the car will be mobile and despite all the hassles, a car like this on the move......absolute poetry in motion