Resurrecting a 1948 Jaguar 1-1/2 liter Saloon

[VCheng]

Today was a good day - Alhumdolilah,

Gear box was removed with the help of my mechanic. He grabbed it from one side and I from the other and we carefully pulled it back and then up and over to the passenger side. Then after a short breather it was lifted out from the passenger door and kept on the garage floor just as the workshop manual said it should be done.

............

So now the strip down work will begin tomorrow. I'll begin with the front end of the box and work backwards. I also had a cursory look at the engine seal hidden behind the flywheel. Initial inspection reveals no leakage but I won't bet on it.

Cheers

That looks in great shape overall, given the age. You may want to consider replacing the flywheel seal, and any other seals down there, while you have everything apart.

[faisalayub]

Today was a good day - Alhumdolilah,

Gear box was removed with the help of my mechanic. He grabbed it from one side and I from the other and we carefully pulled it back and then up and over to the passenger side. Then after a short breather it was lifted out from the passenger door and kept on the garage floor just as the workshop manual said it should be done.

Amongst the loud applause I present pictures:

Gearbox removed

Initial gearbox inspection results

Another view of the leaking seal

So now the strip down work will begin tomorrow. I'll begin with the front end of the box and work backwards. I also had a cursory look at the engine seal hidden behind the flywheel. Initial inspection reveals no leakage but I won't bet on it.

Cheers

Wow.. MASHALLAH.. thats a great work... Lets hope for the best ... its better to get close inspection of each and every component, in first it sees ok, and we left it and proceed further, but at the end the area which we left by saying that it is ok creates a big trouble.. It happened with me so many times ...

[msabbasi]

That looks in great shape overall, given the age. You may want to consider replacing the flywheel seal, and any other seals down there, while you have everything apart.

I was waiting for someone to say "change the flywheel seal". There are no seals at either the fly wheel nor the pulley end (where the fan belt goes)!!! The crafty Brits have something called a return threaded oil collector screw which prevents the oil to escape out of the housing and leak out. Very clever stuff. In fact there is actually an air gap between the crankshaft and the seal housing. The principle is similar to a labyrinth seal. Here is a "poor" quality drawing of the engine:

In case there is an oil leak, then all I have to do is re-centre the return threaded oil collector so as to maintain an equal air gap all around it and the crank

[msabbasi]

Wow.. MASHALLAH.. thats a great work... Lets hope for the best ... its better to get close inspection of each and every component, in first it sees ok, and we left it and proceed further, but at the end the area which we left by saying that it is ok creates a big trouble.. It happened with me so many times ...

Faisal Sb.,

Thanks. I have been discussing with my better half where she will allow me to make a mess as I strip down the box. So far no area has been allotted to me. So it seems that perhaps tomorrow may not proceed as planned Begum ke ijazat ky bina koey kaam krna khattarnaak hota hai!! That is a lesson learned after 30 years of marriage :o. Veterans in the marriage department will know what I am talking about:)

I am with you on the point you have raised. Just to avoid big trouble later, I have planned to do a leak test of the gearbox out side for about a week before it goes back into the car.

Cheers

[VEEeight]

Faisal Sb.,

Thanks. I have been discussing with my better half where she will allow me to make a mess as I strip down the box. So far no area has been allotted to me. So it seems that perhaps tomorrow may not proceed as planned Begum ke ijazat ky bina koey kaam krna khattarnaak hota hai!! That is a lesson learned after 30 years of marriage :o. Veterans in the marriage department will know what I am talking about:)

I am with you on the point you have raised. Just to avoid big trouble later, I have planned to do a leak test of the gearbox out side for about a week before it goes back into the car.

Cheers

The irony of it is that better half will not be impressed by the sheer extent of your ability , knowledge and attention to detail.....unless of course you DO display the same in other matters of daily life!

I have been waiting to read of successful progress on this particular problem and can "rest easy" knowing you are well on your way......space and other issues permitting of course

Incidentallly, I think the XJ here got word of its great aunt's innards being removed and by virtue of either sympathy or protest has decided to spring a gearbox leak all of its own! Admittedly it's a GM box and if it has to be taken out, I know it's about an hour and a half to do so with the car on axle stands

[Xulfiqar]

bad post - sorry bout that.

[Xulfiqar]

I was waiting for someone to say "change the flywheel seal". There are no seals at either the fly wheel nor the pulley end (where the fan belt goes)!!! The crafty Brits have something called a return threaded oil collector screw which prevents the oil to escape out of the housing and leak out. Very clever stuff. In fact there is actually an air gap between the crankshaft and the seal housing. The principle is similar to a labyrinth seal. Here is a "poor" quality drawing of the engine:

In case there is an oil leak, then all I have to do is re-centre the return threaded oil collector so as to maintain an equal air gap all around it and the crank

I had two things in mind - firstly a labyrinth seal situation like this and the other being a rope seal like MB engines of the old times used - you have answered your own question about leaks here - it takes a special hand to seal up leaks here, not impossible but requires patience of a saint and workmanship of a craftsman.

[msabbasi]

Gearbox disassembly has begun. I notice that this was the first time in 64 years the box had been opened.

As mentioned earlier, I'll be working from the front of the box and will be making my way to the back. Bell housing was removed complete with clutch throw out bearing and actuating mechanism. Once the bell housing was out of the way, one can remove the oil seal cover. This is what the box looks like without the bell housing and seal cover...

I took out the seal from its cover and when I had a close look at the seal it was very clear why oil was pouring out. Here is a close up of the input shaft seal. Note the sealing element all cracked/broken due to becoming brittle with age.

New seal is already in hand. However there is a slight fly in the ointment. Old seal OD is 48.8mm while the replacement seal OD is 49.0mm a difference of 0.2mm. Once all the parts are washed and cleaned, I'll look further into this to see if it will become and issue. Anyhow the old and new seals are sitting side by side. Note the old seal is 3/8" thick while the replacement seal is 7/16" inch. The 1/16" difference is to my advantage because this will make seal run on the shaft at a fresh location.

[VEEeight]

Gearbox disassembly has begun. I notice that this was the first time in 64 years the box had been opened.

As mentioned earlier, I'll be working from the front of the box and will be making my way to the back. Bell housing was removed complete with clutch throw out bearing and actuating mechanism. Once the bell housing was out of the way, one can remove the oil seal cover. This is what the box looks like without the bell housing and seal cover...

I took out the seal from its cover and when I had a close look at the seal it was very clear why oil was pouring out. Here is a close up of the input shaft seal. Note the sealing element all cracked/broken due to becoming brittle with age.

New seal is already in hand. However there is a slight fly in the ointment. Old seal OD is 48.8mm while the replacement seal OD is 49.0mm a difference of 0.2mm. Once all the parts are washed and cleaned, I'll look further into this to see if it will become and issue. Anyhow the old and new seals are sitting side by side. Note the old seal is 3/8" thick while the replacement seal is 7/16" inch. The 1/16" difference is to my advantage because this will make seal run on the shaft at a fresh location.

MY GOODNESS!!!! This is heart surgeon stuff

[ansarghani]

At last you caught the culprit!

Gearbox disassembly has begun. I notice that this was the first time in 64 years the box had been opened.

As mentioned earlier, I'll be working from the front of the box and will be making my way to the back. Bell housing was removed complete with clutch throw out bearing and actuating mechanism. Once the bell housing was out of the way, one can remove the oil seal cover. This is what the box looks like without the bell housing and seal cover...

I took out the seal from its cover and when I had a close look at the seal it was very clear why oil was pouring out. Here is a close up of the input shaft seal. Note the sealing element all cracked/broken due to becoming brittle with age.

New seal is already in hand. However there is a slight fly in the ointment. Old seal OD is 48.8mm while the replacement seal OD is 49.0mm a difference of 0.2mm. Once all the parts are washed and cleaned, I'll look further into this to see if it will become and issue. Anyhow the old and new seals are sitting side by side. Note the old seal is 3/8" thick while the replacement seal is 7/16" inch. The 1/16" difference is to my advantage because this will make seal run on the shaft at a fresh location.

[msabbasi]

All parts were subjected to a preliminary wash today to remove all the gunk. I also tried to fit the input shaft seal but due to it being 0.2mm larger at the OD, prevented it from being inserted into the housing. So I am off to the "lath walla" tomorrow morning Insha Allah. More later.....

[VCheng]

All parts were subjected to a preliminary wash today to remove all the gunk. I also tried to fit the input shaft seal but due to it being 0.2mm larger at the OD, prevented it from being inserted into the housing. So I am off to the "lath walla" tomorrow morning Insha Allah. More later.....

It may be that size to ensure a tight fit using a hydraulic press.

[msabbasi]

It may be that size to ensure a tight fit using a hydraulic press.

The required location interfearence fit as per ANSI standards should be 0.04mm to 0.05mm. It took quite a few strong taps from my hammer to get the old 48.8mm OD seal out. This one has no chance of going into its housing if it is 0.2mm larger even with a press. So tomorrow, I'll have the housing measured and then machined to have a 0.05mm interfearence with the seal:)

[VCheng]

The required location interfearence fit as per ANSI standards should be 0.04mm to 0.05mm. It took quite a few strong taps from my hammer to get the old 48.8mm OD seal out. This one has no chance of going into its housing if it is 0.2mm larger even with a press. So tomorrow, I'll have the housing measured and then machined to have a 0.05mm interfearence with the seal:)

That sounds like a good plan, as long as you have enough material to machine out and a press is used to install the seal.

[Xulfiqar]

if the shaft is grooved then look for a sleeve repair. Bearing sales places may have them. In cases of some odd ball engine repairs, mostly european I had some sleeves bought from USA, they are about 2 or 4 dollars a piece depending on size and are used for the very purpose of leaks even with new oil seals due to a groove worn into the shaft.

[msabbasi]

if the shaft is grooved then look for a sleeve repair. Bearing sales places may have them. In cases of some odd ball engine repairs, mostly european I had some sleeves bought from USA, they are about 2 or 4 dollars a piece depending on size and are used for the very purpose of leaks even with new oil seals due to a groove worn into the shaft.

I am totally familiar with the sleeves you are talking about and the groved shaft syndrome. Shaft is in pretty good shape considering the car has only covered 15,000 miles.

Just the rubber seal has taken a vacation. Seals I got are from UK specialist who deals with SS, SS Jaguar and Jaguar parts specifically the model years from 1934 - 1951. Finding parts for my 1-1/2 litre is next to impossible from other suppliers. It little baby Jaguar has bespoke engine/gearbox/diff/chassis. Body is almost same as the bigger 2-1/2 and 3-1/2Litre cars so body parts are easier to get. Frankly speaking I am happy to have the seals even though one is a little bigger.

Below is a picture of the seal housing and seal. There is plenty of meat in the housing to accept a bit of skimming.

[Xulfiqar]

MY GOODNESS!!!! This is heart surgeon stuff

umm this is repair 101

[msabbasi]

deleted - duplicate

[Xulfiqar]

I am totally familiar with the sleeves you are talking about and the groved shaft syndrome. Shaft is in pretty good shape considering the car has only covered 15,000 miles.

Just the rubber seal has taken a vacation. Seals I got are from UK specialist who deals with SS, SS Jaguar and Jaguar parts specifically the model years from 1934 - 1951. Finding parts for my 1-1/2 litre is next to impossible from other suppliers. It little baby Jaguar has bespoke engine/gearbox/diff/chassis. Body is almost same as the bigger 2-1/2 and 3-1/2Litre cars so body parts are easier to get. Frankly speaking I am happy to have the seals even though one is a little bigger.

Below is a picture of the seal housing and seal. There is plenty of meat in the housing to accept a bit of skimming.

The shaft is in neat condition no doubt. Just slightly skim the housing and slap the seal in, fill it with vaseline or assembly goo before you push the whole shabbang home.

[msabbasi]

umm this is repair 101

Rightly said