Savings: Cng vs Petrol

Tags: #<Tag:0x007f6600f5a628>

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 07:46:32 +0500 #1

This thread was started because of this one https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/articles-driver-education-safety/177237-petrol-tips-info-must-read

Chevy Joy 2006
Readings below are for Year 2006

Petrol 57.8
Cng 33.3

CNG

2209 km traveled in Rs. 4026 in july (Rs. 1.8 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

2593 km traveled in Rs. 3670 in Aug (Rs. 1.4 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1797 km traveled in Rs. 2902 in Sep (Rs. 1.6 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1350 km traveled in Rs. 4417 in Oct (Rs. 3.2 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1594 km traveled in Rs. 2625 in Nov (Rs. 1.6 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1722 km traveled in Rs. 2922 in Dec (Rs. 1.6 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1497 km traveled in Rs. 2917 in Jan (Rs. 1.9 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

0958 km traveled in Rs. 2089 in Feb (Rs. 2.1 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 33.3

1413 km traveled in Rs. 2735 in Mar (Rs. 1.9 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 34.4

1651 km traveled in Rs. 3074 in Apr (Rs. 1.8 per km) - price of cng = Rs. 34.4

Adding it up:

In 10 months 16,784 km are taveled in Rs. 31,377
Average price of cng = Rs. 33.52

Averages

1,678.4 km are traveled in one month

Rs. 3,137 spent are in one month on cng

Only one reading petrol is available.

337 km in Rs. 2023 (6 km/liter)

Assumptions based calculations:

In one month 1,678 km is covered in Rs. 10,068 @ Rs 6 km per liter

In ten months 16,784 km are traveled in Rs. 100,680

Therefore

Rs. 100,680 - Rs 31,377 = Rs. 69,303/$1,155 saved in ten months for driving the car on cng instead of petrol.

Hypothesis

Lets suppose for 5 and 10 years respectively the price of cng and petrol is constant, therefore

5 years

100,680 km are traveled in Rs. 188,220 (Rs. 1.8 lac)

Whereas on petrol

100,704 km are traveled in Rs. 604,080 (Rs. 6 lac)

So after 5 years you have saved, Rs. 415,860 (Rs. 4 lac). (Enough to buy a second hand compact car.)

10 years

Cng
201,360 km are traveled in Rs. 376,440 (Rs. 3.7 lac)

Petrol
201,360 km are traveled in Rs. 12,08160 (Rs. 12 lac)

Saving
Rs. 12,08160 – Rs. 376,440 = 831,720 (Rs. 8 lac) (Enough to buy a second hand sedan/saloon.)

CNG

Pros

You save money.
Same
Same

Cons

You have to be a little patient in first and second gear.
Frequent trips to the filling station.
Not recommended for stallions.

Petrol

Pros

All gears function smoothly with and without the air conditioner switched on.
Same
Same

Cons

Frequent trips to the bank, for filling her up. Whereas if it had been on cng the extra savings could have come in handy in taking care of any dents, chips etc that might have been experienced in the previous year.
Same
Same

Conclusion

Cng > Petrol for now or until the price of petrol and diesel come down to Rs. 5 and Rs. 2, respectively or our currency (rupee) climbs higher on the exchange rate, meaning its value in the international market increases, exponentially.
Keeping in view the current discoveries (coal, oil, gas, gold etc) in Pakistan, that future doesnt seem far off.
Or both scenarios happen; ie. price of petrol and diesel come down to Rs. 5 and Rs. 2 respectively and the rupee trades in at $84.

p.s. In the petrol thread I wrote something regarding the nature of savings. I'm copy pasting it below again for easy reference and to get an idea that savings no matter how small, in conjunction they show their full fruit. Enjoy.

"i know the pic only shows 15 miles (24 km) difference between the least and the most high temperature setting but if we are into saving i.e. using energy light savers, using a tub (balti) instead of a shower to take a bath, using fuel efficient cars (not talking about hybrids) sold in Pakistani market, cutting down on our dining out and other such like activities, then the points stated in the above mail hold substance for us. Otherwise if we're spendthrifts and expect to make a saving from only filling up our petrol tanks early in the morning, then that does not make sense. We need to be saving at every level of our individual life (not in a miserly but rather in a comfortable manner) for such little savings to work for us, in the long run."

Please do correct me if you find my calculations incorrect.
Thank you

saadrashad (saadrashad) 2011-09-30 08:00:51 +0500 #2

well bro y did u took average to 6 liter per Km y dont u change your reading to city average 16km /liter minimum
also please mention wear and tear of engine on gas as compared to petrol

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 08:24:59 +0500 #3

Because like I already wrote before, I only had one reading of petrol. Maybe in the next few coming days I would be better able to find the exact number. But if you can get me those numbers from some real world scenario then I could better adjust the readings accordingly.

I am specifically talking about the difference of running a car on cng as compared to running it on petrol.

As to the wear and tear on the engine, the only thing that i have heard from the chevy mechanic is that it uses more engine oil as compared to when running on petrol because it is more dry.

If you're car is giving you consistent numbers for a number of years then the health of your engine is automatically conveyed to you. And right now I know how it runs on cng, and not on petrol.

I once did a test the summer of 2010. Filled up the cng tank and then drove in the following manner.

I had the tank filled in at 7.0 something kg.
Changed into second gear at 30km and fifth gear at 75km/hr.
Drove between 75km/hr and 80km/hr. (It was really very bothersome...)
Drove without a/c
At the end of the week it gave me 170km and at another time 180km.
Did not over rev or try to race with anyone.

stonedsaint 2011-09-30 08:27:55 +0500 #4

Good effort but i would agree with saadrashad here, u can have much more efficient cars .... my city idsi marks 20 km/liter on highways, some vitz can attain upto 23 km/liter, some mira do 26-27 km/liter .....
my personal exp with cng rides so far, they save like 50 % .... petrol costs almost double the price of cng in case of average normal 1.3liter sedan ......

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 09:05:43 +0500 #5

hmm 16km/l. My math is not too good so let me know if the below numbers are correct or not. On a personal note, these new numbers make much more sense also.

Hypothesis

Lets suppose for 5 and 10 years the price of cng and petrol is constant, therefore

5 years

100,680 km are traveled in Rs. 188,220

Whereas on petrol

100,704 km are traveled in Rs. 363,660

So after 5 years you have saved, Rs. 175,440 (Rs. 1.7 lac)

10 years

Cng
201,360 km are traveled in Rs. 376,440

Petrol
201,360 km are traveled in Rs. 727,320

Saving
727,320 - 376,440 = 350,880 (Rs. 3.5 lac)

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 09:13:55 +0500 #6

Those are some nice figures. Thanks for sharing.

Petrol costs vs cng cost difference in year 2006 and 2011

2006

Petrol: 57.8
Cng: 33.3
Difference: Rs. 24.5

2011

Petrol: (Premium) 84.8
Cng: 67.62
Difference: Rs. 17.18

The difference between petrol and cng is not that great but a person who was running his car on cng from 2006 to 2011 faced an increase of Rs. 34.32 which is nearly 100%. Whereas for a person running his car on petrol faced an increase of Rs. 27 which is roughly 25%. So a comparison between the two would suggest, provided both were in the same income bracket, that, keeping all things constant, such as spending habits, the one running on cng saved more than the one running it on petrol, even though he faced a 100% increase in price.

drtanveerali (drtanveerali) 2011-09-30 09:19:08 +0500 #7

I agree with ur math with one big BUT , That is the future availibility of CNG, as per my knowledge now govt. plans to shift the gas to industry inorder to increase export. in this contest they will increase the price of CNG gradually almost equal to petrol. then how a person can even recover the CNG kit money in such surcamtances?

zunny (zunny) 2011-09-30 09:49:44 +0500 #8

my alto used to cost me around Rs 1.5/km back in 2007 n on petrol it used to cost like Rs 6 on petrol(car being tuned on CNG as its primary fuel etc so lesser mpg) . Nowadays costs around 3 /KM on CNG n around Rs 8 on petrol. Lets assume an avg of Rs 4 /KM saved in last 4 yrs. Its done around 70,000 in 4 yrs. Multiplying that =4 x 70000=Rs 2,80000 (two lacs eighty thousand) got the car CNG tuned max 4 or 5 times avg cost /tuning Rs 300. Total 1500. Thats the only additional cost of CNG. Rest all periodic services same as petrol. So i reckon ive saved over a quarter of a million on fuel by using my car on CNG in last 4 yrs which is like half the price of the car i paid for.in this ratio the car will become free in next 4 yrs if i drive it for another 4 yrs! I paid 45k extra for the FF CNG which has recovered its money i invested. Furthermore my car can still fetch me over 125k more than what i paid for in 2007 after driving for 4 yrs n 70k. (i know the devaluation phenomenon etc etc..... N how much more ill have to put in for a new car today of same specs etc.....) but still its quite a handsome amount of fuel saving i reckon.

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 12:11:31 +0500 #9

zunny;3030031:

my alto used to cost me around Rs 1.5/km back in 2007 n on petrol it used to cost like Rs 6 on petrol(car being tuned on CNG as its primary fuel etc so lesser mpg) . Nowadays costs around 3 /KM on CNG n around Rs 8 on petrol. Lets assume an avg of Rs 4 /KM saved in last 4 yrs. Its done around 70,000 in 4 yrs. Multiplying that =4 x 70000=Rs 2,80000 (two lacs eighty thousand) got the car CNG tuned max 4 or 5 times avg cost /tuning Rs 300. Total 1500. Thats the only additional cost of CNG. Rest all periodic services same as petrol. So i reckon ive saved over a quarter of a million on fuel by using my car on CNG in last 4 yrs which is like half the price of the car i paid for.in this ratio the car will become free in next 4 yrs if i drive it for another 4 yrs! I paid 45k extra for the FF CNG which has recovered its money i invested. Furthermore my car can still fetch me over 125k more than what i paid for in 2007 after driving for 4 yrs n 70k. (i know the devaluation phenomenon etc etc..... N how much more ill have to put in for a new car today of same specs etc.....) but still its quite a handsome amount of fuel saving i reckon.

i like your style of thinking, mate

yasirkhanpk (yasirkhanpk) 2011-09-30 12:20:51 +0500 #10

I have chevrolet exclusive on petrol and on highways I get between 18 and 21 km per litre too.

napalm (napalm) 2011-09-30 12:22:13 +0500 #11

i wasnt talking about the future, i was referring to the past four, five years of cng use. As for the present and the future, well that's anybody's guess. But i agree with you that if the price of cng equals the price of petrol, then there is no point in converting to cng. Rather stick to petrol or get a diesel car and enjoy the benefits of a quick and comfortable ride. But that isnt going to be happening any time in the near future. but eventually it will and then people altogether will switch over to petrol or mainly diesel. Seeing how much coal we have in Thar and surrounding areas, i wont be surprised if Pakistan gets named as the most diesel efficient and diesel dependent country of the world by 2020 or between 2020 and 2050. Just my thoughts.

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2011-09-30 13:38:10 +0500 #12

you are not accounting for lost time in fillups, non-availability in some areas/times and the general lack of power output the car would have, And the exponential repair cost of the engine as you run it underfuelled and overloaded all times.

In 5 years you can have a car that looks and feels like rubbish if you dont care about maintenance, and if you do - please add that cost too, e.g. most mechanics in Pakistan prefer an engine change now and are so crazy that they will have overhauled your engine 5 times in 5 years. Add that cost too.

Accountants maybe great with numbers but forget that the item (car) is a mechanical item. It requires upkeep which costs money. CNG as an alternative fuel is good on paper but in real life its not that promising, the biggest flaw is that it has a very short travel range whereas a liquid fuel is potable and also provides a good travel range. Keeping into consideration this reason CNG is best suited for forklifts running in warehouses and buses which follow a designated route - these vehicles can be built and designed to be run on CNG alone and would not have issues of fuelling as a car would have at a commercial CNG pump.

Diesel burning cars provide excellent mileage and are extremely long life - sadly our problem in Pakistan is that we are cheap minded people. We would not spend any sort of money for proper repair procedure or parts and would rather opt for "Jugaar" do be done. It wont work no matter how slick you think your jugaar is.

Living in Karachi I used to run a diesel engine vehicle - and it was a sure deal everytime I spun the key. you cannot argue with 20-24 km/lit driving normally. But I had to work on it with correct specs to get it to that range. It was more close to 12 km/lit when I had bought it from its previous owner. On the other hand there was a CNG car in the house too which had more finickies with it and was hopeless when the CNG filling stations were shut down due to something.

And just for mentions sake - take a look at traffic jams in our country where cars would be pushed as they ran out of CNG and have no petrol as the fuel system has rusted or plugged up. You cannot carry CNG to a car can you? I am all "pro CNG" but it should be used where its effeciency is highest - a car is not that.

dms664 2011-09-30 16:42:09 +0500 #13

Everybody love to drive on petrol but not everybody can afford it. So those who are driving their cars on petrol are lucky ones to find it affordable and don't think that those who are running their cars on cng are willingly allowing their cars to undergo more wear n tear n other cons of cng but its only to save few bucks and let their BHARAM intact in the society.

People come with a point that if you can keep a 1.5 million car you must have the funds to drive it on petrol . One can buy his dream car after saving for years and when the savings reach 1.5 million then one buys his dream car but now how to feed the car as feeding it with petrol is out of question for a middle class safaid posh who doesnt have any bucks after 20th of each month so for that cng is a blessing.

napalm (napalm) 2011-10-01 06:21:22 +0500 #14

Xulfiqar;3030305:

you are not accounting for lost time in fillups, non-availability in some areas/times and the general lack of power output the car would have, And the exponential repair cost of the engine as you run it underfuelled and overloaded all times.

In 5 years you can have a car that looks and feels like rubbish if you dont care about maintenance, and if you do - please add that cost too, e.g. most mechanics in Pakistan prefer an engine change now and are so crazy that they will have overhauled your engine 5 times in 5 years. Add that cost too.

Accountants maybe great with numbers but forget that the item (car) is a mechanical item. It requires upkeep which costs money. CNG as an alternative fuel is good on paper but in real life its not that promising, the biggest flaw is that it has a very short travel range whereas a liquid fuel is potable and also provides a good travel range. Keeping into consideration this reason CNG is best suited for forklifts running in warehouses and buses which follow a designated route - these vehicles can be built and designed to be run on CNG alone and would not have issues of fuelling as a car would have at a commercial CNG pump.

Diesel burning cars provide excellent mileage and are extremely long life - sadly our problem in Pakistan is that we are cheap minded people. We would not spend any sort of money for proper repair procedure or parts and would rather opt for "Jugaar" do be done. It wont work no matter how slick you think your jugaar is.

Living in Karachi I used to run a diesel engine vehicle - and it was a sure deal everytime I spun the key. you cannot argue with 20-24 km/lit driving normally. But I had to work on it with correct specs to get it to that range. It was more close to 12 km/lit when I had bought it from its previous owner. On the other hand there was a CNG car in the house too which had more finickies with it and was hopeless when the CNG filling stations were shut down due to something.

And just for mentions sake - take a look at traffic jams in our country where cars would be pushed as they ran out of CNG and have no petrol as the fuel system has rusted or plugged up. You cannot carry CNG to a car can you? I am all "pro CNG" but it should be used where its effeciency is highest - a car is not that.

From an enthusiast's point of view your words are very practical.

But for a realist's, they hold no practical value.

That said the name of the game is conservation and if one has the option of switching to a viable use of alternative energy, then why shouldnt one to maximize his returns on his investment? As for your stating that engines need to be over hauled on a yearly basis for use on cng, then for those individuals I would suggest buying cars whose engines can take the wear and tear of a dry fuel without sacrificing too much on the performance.

As for off roading, well if the person is planning on selling his vehicle after a year or two of use, then why does it bother you as to how he treats his purchase? Just give your opinion and then let him blow a gasket before coming to his senses and then going back to what you originally advised him. Humans generally learn after they have committed serious mistakes, while some 'beeba' bachas, whose luck is good happen to live in the company of people who mean them no harm, so they go with the flow and generally end up without too many bruises ad scratches. Whereas others mostly have to muck it out in life, to find the right answer to everything because everyone around them is full of lies and deceit. So you cannot enforce your judgement on anyone. Rather give an opinion and then sit back, relax let them wreck their car and when they come to you for help, help them out.

Personally I would never suggest cng to anyone but seeing how the prices of fuel, food, clothing and other items of everyday use and luxury (restaurants, cinemas, theaters, clubs etc) have been climbing steadily with the value of the rupee continuously falling, you cannot blame people for using cng in the car.

And generally for such people their use of the vehicle is strictly limited to straight roads, to and fro from office to school, home. Very few compared to them, only a handful engage in off roading activities. And for those individuals, i would not even recommend petrol. When diesel clearly gives more torque, the basic element required in any off roading activity.

Dont let other peoples choices bother you so much. Let them do what they want. You're only here to guide them, not enforce your opinion on them. Let them fall a few times, to figure out where they're going wrong, because eventually they will realize and hopefully will either get a car which can run perfectly on cng as well as petrol or get a cycle.

My analysis was strictly based on the difference between running a car on cng and petrol. But if you must then you would know the prices of the little items that would be required to be changed after the car has travelled that many kilometers, just add them all up and you will realize that the saving to be had from running the car on cng, would pay for all of these little maintenance items (oil, oil-air filter, brake servicing etc) Whereas a person running his car on petrol would have had to shelve out extra money from his pockets.

Where I live I have not faced any cng related issues but that doesnt mean i never ran out of cng when it was their day off. I did but because I had a half full tank of petrol, I could easily run my car on it until the cng was made available again. Yar, mein kehta hoon keh save karo magar itna nahin keh tumhari ya tumharay saath waloun ki tabiat kharaab honay lug jae. Otherwise if you cant afford petrol (cng), diesel for a car then get a bike. and if not that even then a cycle or public transport. When i say afford, i mean the care and maintenance also.

I understand what you mean by maintaining a car in its original form but given the economic circumstances of the past ten years, shortcuts had to be made to maintain a house, wife, kids, one's life. A car's health takes a back seat in light of such priorities. Hope you dont mind my opinion.
Its just one man's opinion against, mostly everyone

sayyedain (sayyedain) 2011-10-01 06:44:33 +0500 #15

very nice Napalm brother excellent review and artical

immad100 (immad100) 2011-10-02 06:07:22 +0500 #16

zunny;3030031:

my alto used to cost me around rs 1.5/km back in 2007 n on petrol it used to cost like rs 6 on petrol(car being tuned on cng as its primary fuel etc so lesser mpg) . Nowadays costs around 3 /km on cng n around rs 8 on petrol. Lets assume an avg of rs 4 /km saved in last 4 yrs. Its done around 70,000 in 4 yrs. Multiplying that =4 x 70000=rs 2,80000 (two lacs eighty thousand) got the car cng tuned max 4 or 5 times avg cost /tuning rs 300. Total 1500. Thats the only additional cost of cng. Rest all periodic services same as petrol. So i reckon ive saved over a quarter of a million on fuel by using my car on cng in last 4 yrs which is like half the price of the car i paid for.in this ratio the car will become free in next 4 yrs if i drive it for another 4 yrs! I paid 45k extra for the ff cng which has recovered its money i invested. Furthermore my car can still fetch me over 125k more than what i paid for in 2007 after driving for 4 yrs n 70k. (i know the devaluation phenomenon etc etc..... N how much more ill have to put in for a new car today of same specs etc.....) but still its quite a handsome amount of fuel saving i reckon.

+10000000....

capsat (ومن شر حاسد إذا حسد) 2011-10-02 06:26:56 +0500 #17

Statistical maths................!.......... kukh palay nahi para...-F

Xulfiqar (Xulfiqar) 2011-10-02 18:47:17 +0500 #18

@napalm

I did not mention any offroad activities did I? - I mentioned a diesel hatchback - this car is used for urban/highway driving. Not offroading.

waqastariq (waqastariq) 2011-10-02 19:30:46 +0500 #19

+1 to that!

smokin (smokin) 2011-10-03 16:12:54 +0500 #20

i think u people living in utopia i know CNG is cheaper but it has its drawback in carby engine it runs fine but now carby era has gone it works on efi engine upto some extant but i haven't a good experience i m currently having 07 mehran CNG which is my personal. 06 altis which is of my brother its also on CNG. and 11 xli of my father. btw mehran is with me since 2007 i bought it 0 meter.
my father used to hav xli 09 petrol he sold it and bought 11 xli now comming to the point he sold it on 45 k on the odo oil changed 4 to 5 not even a single penny spent on any thing else it used to give him 16 km/l according to which 211000 rs spent on the fuel expense and 23500 on lube = 234500 in two years and 45 k km normaly 10 kg tank of cng gives 140 -145 km average it means rount about 176000 rs spent on cng 25560 rs on lube = 201560 plua in 45 k u have lost ur warenty +suspention +allignment for the whole life of car + after 100 k head or engine too it means that in ur cng maintenance price is not considered in it now lts come to the difference between them the diff is of rs round about 33 k now we double the milage to 90 k after 90 k people will save 66 k now let me tell u a thing now a days cng kit worth u 50 k i can only add 16 k for its maintenance it means people ll recover the cng kit price after 90 k kilometers WTH and after 90 k running on cng head of the car ll end and it is a fact i have many friends who ruined their engine on cng and fuel injectors 1 fuel injector cost u 8 k and there r 4 in the engine as u all know loss of compression infact a complete engine overhaul ll be required i dont know the exactly amount but it will cost u more than 50 k so in the end people ll find that they r 40 to 50 k in loss after instaling CNG so its up to u to opt for cng or petrol.

now in my brother altis it used to give him 17 km average bit when the fuel price went to 90 rs in 2008 he instaled cng at first he find it very cheep 180 to 200 km in a 10 kg tank full no issues at all only oil change and filters change but afterwards it started creating trouble first i found the issue in the alignment never settled till date then fuel injector stop responding one by one 1 injector cost 8 k in back 2010 i hav a receipt if any one has doubt i ll show him after that it work fine for some time but later the head of the car started creating issue engine started shiviring broke some plates type thing in the exhaust suspension also gone bad due to lifting up the rear by packing in btw it has done only 100 k on CNG and the is in pathatic condition engine wise but body wise is in mint condition yesterday i was driving his car when i crosed 30 in the 1st gear i heard a sound of blast under the hood i opened the bonot and found that air filter box was broken into two pieces WTh it was due to CNG backfire so in short we ll spend 100 k rs including the injector price after runing 100 k.

now comming to my car my mehran give me 16-17 km on ac in highway and 15 in city on petrol and in winters CNG average is good but in summers it sucks so its not cheep at all
aur han 10 sal ma aap aur koi nai to kmzkm 4 bar to engine overhaul krwa chuka ho ga to 10 sal ki planinh na kro