Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30 Fully Synthetic Oil Drain Interval

[shahjaha.jhinkur]

lets do a test,

drain all oil from your engine and start it on stop watch set to 48 seconds. Please post the results.

8 seconds?

I believe LM Germany is smoking crack of they are claiming an 8 second interval of pumping 5w30 lube in a cold engine and 48 seconds for a 15w40 lube.

did they mention what temperature is this lube? or what is the specification of the oil pump?

Unfortunately, I don't have further details on this but perhaps you can conduct a test and I surely would love to see the results too.

[umer325]

That is not correct. Viscosity corresponds to the informal concept of "thickness". For example, honey has a much higher viscosity than water.

Okaay!
Thanks for clearing it bro.

[shahjaha.jhinkur]

Okaay!
Thanks for clearing it bro.

No problem bro!

[siraj_7]

Hi @xulfiqar, please solve the mystery how much time each grade mentioned below would take to lubricate the entire engine on a cold start as I don't understand a bit of what you are trying to say below.

lets do a test,

drain all oil from your engine and start it on stop watch set to 48 seconds. Please post the results.

8 seconds?

I believe LM Germany is smoking crack of they are claiming an 8 second interval of pumping 5w30 lube in a cold engine and 48 seconds for a 15w40 lube.

did they mention what temperature is this lube? or what is the specification of the oil pump?

[siraj_7]

What I have understood so far that most wear and tear occurs on a cold start in an engine, especially when champs rev the engine to redline for 3 - 4 time quickly after cranking the engine on a cold start. A newer engine is subject to more torture in a cold start than an old engine because the metal clearances are tighter. I've read that they use oil heators in very expensive millions of dollars worth of gensets because in case of a power failure they can't wait to for the oil to come on operating temperature and they have to put it to load in a matter of seconds and since the equipment is so expensive they can’t afford to cold start and put it to load. Even in many small Aircraft engines they use oil heaters to preheat the engine oil as these engines are very expensive to maintain and the clearances are even tighter and cold cranks can and have led to engine failures.
So based on these facts I think it is wiser to use a thin grade oil which will cover well the cold start phase and it is a myth that a thin grade oil will pass through the rings into the chamber. It happens only when the rings are hopeless. After buying an approx. 90k ran carby cultus 2001 which was previously ran on 20W50 flushed it with STP and then poured 10W40 with no oil level decreasing issue even after 3000 kilometers and plan to drain it at 5000. I will synthetic 10w40 next time and then ultimately shift to fully synthetic 5w-30 with OCI of 10000 and will change oil filter at 5K. A key to long OCI is to use a very good quality oil filter and frequently clean air filter and change it on time.

[bunsira]

The new generation of vehicles are designed with very narrow clearances in the engine and only low viscosity oils can easily flow under these conditions.
As far as higher ambient temperatures are concerned in Pakistan, the max temperature can be 50C or bit more. The engine is operating at about 100C, so oils are blended to withstand such a high temperature, so myth of higher ambient temp is gone, so are the days are numbered for 20W-50 or other viscous oils for new cars.
Recently Honda and some other Japanese OEM have designed cars which are using SAE 16 oil and forced API to introduce this category in their new viscosity standard. SAE 16 oil is about 8.5 viscosity @ 100C.
So it is safe to use 5W-30 & 10W-30 oils in Pakistani conditions for latest model cars or imported cars.

[arzaam.bhatti]

The new generation of vehicles are designed with very narrow clearances in the engine and only low viscosity oils can easily flow under these conditions.
As far as higher ambient temperatures are concerned in Pakistan, the max temperature can be 50C or bit more. The engine is operating at about 100C, so oils are blended to withstand such a high temperature, so myth of higher ambient temp is gone, so are the days are numbered for 20W-50 or other viscous oils for new cars.
Recently Honda and some other Japanese OEM have designed cars which are using SAE 16 oil and forced API to introduce this category in their new viscosity standard. SAE 16 oil is about 8.5 viscosity @ 100C.
So it is safe to use 5W-30 & 10W-30 oils in Pakistani conditions for latest model cars or imported cars.

nope viscosity still has something relating to ambient temperature airflow over the oil sump and the delta increase in temperature is important as oil plays a role in cooling, i would like to see your 0W-20 oil work at sahara desert with temperatures upto 57 C and ill happily laugh when it fails. neither have manufacturers moved as fast as you make out in engine clearances. the reason why they specify very low viscosity oils recently is that its a easy way to getting good fuel economy and just advertising better consumption figures on the sticker which is essential in winning over customers. they dont give a thing about your car if it fails after the warranty period expires.

case in point both honda accord and toyota corolla specified 5W-30 in america in 2009 and in the facelift of those models in america with exactly the same engines they started specifying 0W-20 oil even though the tolerances hadn't moved a inch, it was jsut to advertise better fuel consumption figures.

if the manufacturer specifies 0W-20 in all the mepratures in all markets then fine, otherwise the jdm manual doesnt conclude anything, especially when it even ashen been translated properly.

and yep 20W-50 is reserved for cars from the last century.

[siraj_7]

@xulfiqar I want to shift to 5w-30 fully synthetic API SN in my carby cultus G10 2001 with 100K on the ODO and not reducing any oil alhamdullilah and stretch my OCI to 10,000Km (I install best quality genuine oil filter and frequently clean my air filter and change it on time) Also for 10,000 OCI should I change oil filter at 5000 ? Its VIC oil filter for Suzuki G10

So will 5w-30 oil be harm full or should I got for it? Currently I am using mineral API SN 10W-40

[bunsira]

I did not mention 0W-20 and we are not living in Sahara desert.

[siraj_7]

By the way those who say Suzuki G10 is a bad engine, check this out:

ICP Savannah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was very surprised to find that this engine is used in single propeller aircraft as well. It must be pretty good to have been commission for an aircraft because their is no margin of error when you are flying in the air as an engine failure can lead to death specially on a single engine plane.

[siraj_7]

@arzaam.bhatti we are not living in Sahara Desert and 20W-50 is extremely bad on the engine for cold morning cranking. Most of the wear and tear happens during a cold start. 20W-50 is not suitable in any way for our Suzuki's especially for those who run on direct fan where the engine will never reach optimal temperature and with clogged oil galleries, temperature here in Karachi stays around 30 and rarely touches 40. It has never or might have very rarely gone to 50 and not in my lifetime.

[arzaam.bhatti]

@arzaam.bhatti we are not living in Sahara Desert and 20W-50 is extremely bad on the engine for cold morning cranking. Most of the wear and tear happens during a cold start. 20W-50 is not suitable in any way for our Suzuki's especially for those who run on direct fan where the engine will never reach optimal temperature and with clogged oil galleries, temperature here in Karachi stays around 30 and rarely touches 40. It has never or might have very rarely gone to 50 and not in my lifetime.

when did i say to use 20W-50?i said to use 5W-40 and possibly 5W-30 if its in range in all owner manuals not just jdm and to stay away from 0w-20, as far as suzuki goes one should rig the fans and thermostat correctly theres no other way around that, the poster location is in lahore and i was talking from lahore location point of view, right now its 42C and worse is to come, in karachi you can use 5W-30 if you drive around in city. i wouldn't use 0W-20.

[Xulfiqar]

Unfortunately, I don't have further details on this but perhaps you can conduct a test and I surely would love to see the results too.

My benz engine is filled with M1 0W40 which I change when the car tells me to - which is is between 20,000 and 24,000 kms. I did a pressure test once with a mechanical gauge (car has no oil pressure sensor from the factory)

about half a second or so after startup the oil pressure was plenty at the port, I have once tested an old diesel benz with valve cover removed and it made a royal mess 1/2 or 1 second after start and it was filled with 15W40 oil. - even after an oil change it takes 2 or 3 seconds to completely pressurize the massive filter it has with stone cold oil.

[Xulfiqar]

What I have understood so far that most wear and tear occurs on a cold start in an engine, especially when champs rev the engine to redline for 3 - 4 time quickly after cranking the engine on a cold start. A newer engine is subject to more torture in a cold start than an old engine because the metal clearances are tighter. I've read that they use oil heators in very expensive millions of dollars worth of gensets because in case of a power failure they can't wait to for the oil to come on operating temperature and they have to put it to load in a matter of seconds and since the equipment is so expensive they can’t afford to cold start and put it to load. Even in many small Aircraft engines they use oil heaters to preheat the engine oil as these engines are very expensive to maintain and the clearances are even tighter and cold cranks can and have led to engine failures.
So based on these facts I think it is wiser to use a thin grade oil which will cover well the cold start phase and it is a myth that a thin grade oil will pass through the rings into the chamber. It happens only when the rings are hopeless. After buying an approx. 90k ran carby cultus 2001 which was previously ran on 20W50 flushed it with STP and then poured 10W40 with no oil level decreasing issue even after 3000 kilometers and plan to drain it at 5000. I will synthetic 10w40 next time and then ultimately shift to fully synthetic 5w-30 with OCI of 10000 and will change oil filter at 5K. A key to long OCI is to use a very good quality oil filter and frequently clean air filter and change it on time.

large power gennys are kept on standby with oil and coolant heaters because they need to startup and go to full power under 10 seconds. there is no warm up time given.

these engines also have pre-oilers - it utilises a pressure chamber which pushes the same hot oil into all the galleries before the starting engine is fired and its clutch is applied. This prevents dry start and the engine can immediately be loaded up.

[siraj_7]

@xulfiqar Can you please answer this post #68:

I want to shift to 5w-30 fully synthetic API SN in my carby cultus G10 2001 with 100K on the ODO and not reducing any oil alhamdullilah and stretch my OCI to 10,000Km (I install best quality genuine oil filter and frequently clean my air filter and change it on time) Also for 10,000 OCI should I change oil filter at 5000 ? Its VIC oil filter for Suzuki G10

So will 5w-30 oil be harm full or should I got for it? Currently I am using mineral API SN 10W-40

[bunsira]

Latest models car need latest lubricants

[ehalin]

@xulfiqar sb., What is reasonable drain interval for Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 being used in a new KD series engine vehicle in Pakistan? Thanks,

My benz engine is filled with M1 0W40 which I change when the car tells me to - which is is between 20,000 and 24,000 kms. I did a pressure test once with a mechanical gauge (car has no oil pressure sensor from the factory)

about half a second or so after startup the oil pressure was plenty at the port, I have once tested an old diesel benz with valve cover removed and it made a royal mess 1/2 or 1 second after start and it was filled with 15W40 oil. - even after an oil change it takes 2 or 3 seconds to completely pressurize the massive filter it has with stone cold oil.

[ZainMahdi]

@siraj_7 the drain interval given given in the Cultus service manual is 10k km for normal driving conditions.

It will be best to try a 10k drain interval, and send it for analysis. To be safe, change the filter at 5k km. Maintain the oil level at halfway between the marks on the dipstick.

You can then increase or decrease the interval based on the report.

@ehalin you can safely change it at 8k km. If you want, you can get an oil analysis done, and then adjust the drain interval based on the report.

[siraj_7]

@zainmahdi where can I get the analysis done? Is it safe to shift to 5w-30 fully synthetic oil and I want the OCI to be 10,000, no use in using fullysynthetic if I have to drain at 5K I can use semi or mineral then...

@siraj_7 the drain interval given given in the Cultus service manual is 10k km for normal driving conditions.

It will be best to try a 10k drain interval, and send it for analysis. To be safe, change the filter at 5k km. Maintain the oil level at halfway between the marks on the dipstick.

You can then increase or decrease the interval based on the report.

[Storm]

Don't use such thin oil, especially not in the sweltering summers of Lahore! No matter what car, I would never recommend xW-'30' grade oil. Use at least xW-40...ideally xW-50 for summer temperatures of 40-45 + Celsius.

this has more to do with your engine specification and the capability of your oil pump.

Latest models car need latest lubricants

that picture is misleading, the MK3 Golf never came with a 2.3l gasoline engine in any country. the closest was the 2.0L in ewither 8v or 16 guise or the 2.8 & 2.9 VR6.