Steps needed to improve Toyota revo comfort to maximum level

[salman_w]

It's actually pretty amazing how much difference it makes. When i was buying my revo i drove one with dunlop tyres too and it was a terrible experience. The passenger seat vibrated on a slightly uneven road. When i went to see the one i have now i was so impressed in the ride quality of both vehicles that i gave him token there and then. It had the bigger profile tires in it.

[coolbox]

Thank you.
I got the spacers in 2015 when I had a vigo champ. I got 2 pairs, but installed only one pair in rear. The 2nd pair was installed now in rear of Revo. I got it then from HABS tyres, DHA karachi, who arranged it from a source not known to me. You could contact optimum motorsports karachi, or even HABS tires.

[salman_w]

Thanks @coolbox

[salman_w]

Also can you please upload a photo of your revo from behind so i can see the stance of the vehicle. Also does installing spacers effect the handling in any way? Why did you not go for the front spacers as well?

[coolbox]

I will upload more pics tomorrow InShaAllah.
In my vigo, the tyres rubber against the bumper on turning, so removed spacers from front.
Since I had only one pair left, I didnt check on front in the Revo, and installed them in the rear rightaway. If I had another pair, I might have tested in front as well. Will keep this pending for future.

With the wheels spaced out, and without, I have not compared at all with same set of tyres, so cannot comment. I would like to believe that wider stance would help stability in some ways that I dont know of!

[coolbox]

These are not significantly spaces out though. A bit more than subtle.

[Xulfiqar]

and your scrub radius is now messed up!

[coolbox]

I dont even know what that is. Could you please elaborate?

[crema]

I dont even know what that is. Could you please elaborate?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius

Its not that difficult to understand, we should know what we are driving. The jerry rigging resolves 1 issue but creates another. The factory churns out the vehicle tuned to the best and we do not need to modify anything except if it is OEM recommended.

[salman_w]

People who buy revo buy it as its their passion, at least I did, this being my first 4x4 i'm keen to experiment with its looks keeping it simple yet personalized and as close to the spec as possible. I wanted to know what scrub radius does and if it is bad for the differential or other components of 4x4.
Customization if harmless can strengthen that bond between man and machine even if it comes at the price of less practicality, aesthetics is definitely a personal preference. I have been following hilux owners from Japan on Insta and all their trucks are lifted to a much crazier level than we do. Yet their rigs are super clean.
I would love to know how the car will be damaged with spacers if you can explain briefly. thanks.

[Xulfiqar]

Did you read that wiki link?

Scrub radius is the effective angle of the ball joint pivot to wheel centerline. By adding spacers you changed that angle which then stresses the ball joint in more ways than it was designed to.

please dont follow insta or tiktok as car modification peers, look at factory racing teams.

[salman_w]

I think subtleness is the key, at least in my personal opinion. I am planning to raise the front as much as the rear as i like that look and i don't load the truck. I think the spacers look very subtle but good. I still wanna see how it looks from the rear from a far. Also i think fronts will scrub it spacers are added as the larger profile is already cutting it close.

[Moderator]

[salman_w]

I did read it and by what i understand is that hilux already has a positive scrub radius (lookin at the factory strut positioning of the vehicle) in the front and in back too (don't know if it applies to the back as there are no ball joints in back). Since spacers are at the rear of the vehicle, there is not much weight or presence of ball joints in rear either. I don't think much pressure would be exerted on the suspension if rear is not loaded. Would mostly be affecting rear bearings just a crude guess.
I do understand that the best way for longevity and safety, OEM is the way to go. I just wanted to find out if someone has experimented in a safe way and had their personal experience regarding spaces which @coolbox seems to have.
Also brother i never plan to race my truck so looking at racers mods don't interest me that much although i do understand their mods will be safer as it done with extreme situations in mind.
p.s. i am into truckness of the trucks. high, rugged, badass etc etc

[Xulfiqar]

truckness of a truck is all about making it tough duty - what you are trying to follow is called "brodozer" which are usually extremely delicate machines.

e.g. lifting a truck is not just about raising the suspension, e.g. check a factory lifted mercedes G wagen, or adding spacers to wheels to make it wider track, it changes the articulation of the suspension arm angles too - the suspension arms actually move in arcs, suspension design is not just (ye mukki/kenchi hai, ye ball jaaint hai, ye shteering hai), the rear is solid axle but widening the track makes for a spooky ride instead of a controlled ride. (cheetahs are slim and long, not wide and short). - we discovered in horse and cart days that widening the track without changing the wheelbase is a bad idea.

Spacers were originally made for situations where you had the wrong offset wheel for your vehicle and needed correction. They were not made for "making it badass" - if you want to look at wider track vehicles like e.g. some M spec BMWs or AMG Benz etc. Look at the wheel offset, the wheels they employ are also recalled as very deep dish. They did that do the centerline of the footprint of the tire doesnt go outwards of the suspension or it loses grip and also becomes "vague" in turning and stresses the ball joint assemblies greatly.

But - your money your choice!

My stance is that "asking a truck to ride as smooth as a car is a joke"

[coolbox]

[salman_w]

Mashallah. I must say i like the looks of this. I think you should get the back glass tinted black as well.

[salman_w]

First of all thank you for your contribution to this discussion and it's a discussion where people may differ yet accept the difference of opinions. I do understand your point of view and agree with many points.
Where I stand is that in modifying culture there are different types of treatments to ones vehicle one can do or like. I wouldn't put a label on what is called what as some people can call others ricers and its supposed to put them down for being cheap or vulgar etc. I personally am against that. For some people it's all about increasing the power of the vehicle, for some it's the looks that matter, for some it's the lowest ride they crave etc etc.
One can do function as well as looks with a bit of a hassle, e.g. I daily drive a revo, now how it rides is something i am into but if i plan to go offroad, i would take the spacers off for stability and intended functionality. Here i have to say that @coolbox ride looks sick and yes i am into looks more than function when I am driving in city. Also i do not wanna lift the truck insanely, just like the front as high as the back, although i am still not a 100% sure about it hence partaking in this discussion, getting a front lift kit removed is harder than removing spacers from rear wheels.
So, brother, I am just indulging in this discussion to find out if anyone else is also into looks and stance of the vehicle as well. I would ideally like a group of people who accept and celebrate differences and appreciate the automobile enthusiasm of other pakwheels. I wanna do a meet of Revo buddies on a safe spot where one can talk about this machine, dos and don'ts, with some tea and our cars in the background, that would be the best day for me.
If anyone shares my interests lets do a meet up since corona issues are at bay for now. Thanks @Xulfiqar for explaining a lot of crucial points and their reasoning. I appreciate it.
p.s. every instagram persons truck is not a brodozer but yes majority are which is not what i am into.

[salman_w]

btw number plate system in Karachi is hilarious.

[ahsontariq]

After driving 100,000 kms, here is MY TAKE ON COMFORT FACTOR (Suspension) ON HILUX REVO

Includes review of Dunlop Grandtrek A/Ts, Geolander G015 285/60/R18, Thai shocks and Agriauto Shocks. Also a bit about bull bars and strut spacers

I got the Revo delivered on 19th December 2016, immediately after launch and it came with Thai shocks and not the agro auto ones. It was from among the first 100 units assembled by IMC. The ride, with stock Dunlop Grandtrek A/T was acceptable with 30 Psi pressure in all fours and slightly more comfortable with 28 at the front and 30 at the rear.

However, things changed when few months after purchase I got the front and rear bull bars (65kg front and 30kg rear). The front of the vehicle sagged by around an inch and became hard on the bumps. Looked around on YouTube for economical ideas and added a 1.5 inch strut spacer to lift the front and move the vehicle's centre of gravity back. Immediately thereafter, I took the vehicle from KHI to Northern Areas and found the ride with stock Dunlop tyres comfortable.

The Dunlop GrandTrek A/Ts served me well till 55,000 kms with all 5-tyre rotation every 10k kms and during which time there were 4 KHI to Northern Areas tours including KP (Kumrat, Jahaz Banda, etc) and GB (Hunza, Fairy Meadows, etc) as well as over a dozen hunting trips to interior Sindh (Dadu, Moro, Kachay ka area) and Baluchistan (Wadh), all requiring off-roading in sandy, muddy as well as mountainous (hard rock) terrains. I had nothing to complain about the Grandtrek till then and therefore replaced with same ones and which again served me well for another 50,000 kms. No complains whatsoever.

Now last month, my Thai shocks requiring replacement after crossing 100k kms were replaced with agri-autos ones and that's where the ride became real hard and bumpy (shitty). Since the tyres also required replacement soon, couple of weeks back, I got them replaced, upon a good friend's recommendation, to Geolander G015 285/60 R18s, four month old production. And after that drove them from Lahore to Islamabad.

There is negligible difference (placebo effect as qwerty said above) between the two. Comfort-wise there is no difference. Grip-wise yes, I'd rate them 10% to 20% better depending on terrain and wet conditions.

Also, bear in mind that both in my case as well as my friend's case, the front tyres touch the mud flap while making a full turn and using brakes. If you're not using brakes and at slow speed, the tyres do not touch the mud flaps. But if you're coming down a slope (on a mountain) and have to take a sharp turn as on Margalla hills or for that matter any mountain path in northern areas, the tyres are going to rub hard on the mud flaps.

Moreover, please also note that economy-wise, the Geolanders are at least 0.5 km / L and at max 1 km / L less economical based on my motorway as well as within-city usage thus far (two tanks).

DUNLOP GRANDTREK AT20 265/60 R18 OR YOKOHAMA GEOLANDER G015s AT 285/60 R18s ?
If you ask me whether I would buy Yoko Geolander GO15s again instead of Dunlop Grandtrek A/Ts, no I won't, I will rather stick with the Dunlops. I drove Dunlop Grandtrek A/Ts in all kinds of terrains that each of our five provinces have to offer, and found them quite satisfactory in terms of comfort as well as grip. My tail never skid in wet conditions under normal driving conditions. In case of oil slicks, it's another matter and no tyres will help you in those conditions. With these tyres (and of course Thai shocks and with those heavy bull bars my economy to date has averaged 10.1 km / L in city conditions and 11.5 km / L on motorways, with driver plus 300 kg of extra weight in form of either passengers or cargo in the deck.

I have also added G-Shackles and done over 1,000 kms with them. Would say the front driver feels maybe 5% difference at max, while those sitting at the back feel at max 10% difference while going over bumps or while on bumpy road.

Now, coming to my current confusion and therefore seeking advice from those who have done and experienced it:

1) Should I go for Thai shocks or Ironman or Kings or ARBs ?

2) If Ironman or ARBs, should I get the whole kit of 4 shockers with coil springs ?

3) If Thai, which Thai shocks should I be seeking ? Make, variant / model, source, target price ?

Also, since I've relocated from KHI to ISB last year, an ISB based source would be highly appreciated. If not, then LHR or KHI based sourcing options will also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance guys.

LEARNINGS REGARDING COMFORT AND SUSPENSION

1) Agriauto shocks suck. Thai stock ones are much much better. Don't know about ARBs or Ironman Foamcell and can share once experience them.

2) Add bull bars only if your have a functional use for them, never for shashka. The kind of terrains I frequently travel to, the vehicles front and rear getting in contact with hard rock mountain walls (especially when turning around the vehicle on narrow roads) as well as the fact that I require extra approach and exit clearance due to the kind of terrains I drive on while hunting in some areas. If you do add bull bars, especially in the front, you'll have to upgrade your suspension to maintain ride comfort OR find another juggar like the one I did and which worked for me.

3) Stock Dunlop GT AT20s are good tyres. Change only if you have extra cash to burn or you just can't live without that extra macho look.

4) Regular maintenance is key. Follow the Manual. Don't follow your local mechanic's advice.