Strut Bars!

[kiani1]

In nearly all our cars in Pakistan, theres a tremendous amount of body roll coupled with oversteer and understeer.

I wanted to know if Strut Bars or Strut Braces make any difference in the cars feel and handling. And should these bars be hollow from within, solid from within and/or should be straight or a little bent.

Heres a pic of one

[Starlet_GT]

Strut Bars ... They hold the body and suspension ... the important one is the below one attached down between chasis and steering rack, saving suspension, specially prevents chasis not to get cracked...

No use if you try to put these bars in your stock car until you have done some sort of mods in which you think can be harmful for your car suspension. Save your car when your turbo starts spooling or NOS starts injecting into your car's engine When wheels are spinning like a crazy nuts...

The top bar is a hollow one and the bottom ones are solid...

[szuberi]

Kiani1...here is the run down on strut bars.

For most cars in Pakistan, there will be more understeer rather than oversteer. Understeer cuz of FWD and the front engine layout (weight distribution is more than 50% to the front of the car). The solution to this is a suspension upgrade.

Strut bars are designed to reduce chasis flex when cornering but the difference is barely noticeable unless you have an upgraded suspension (springs and/or coilovers) You will notice more difference if you have lower bars than the upper cuz thats where the stress is the most when the vehicle is moving.

If somebody tells you that it is a major performance upgraded...dont believe it cuz it is not. i have tried putting all four bars on my civic with stock shocks and like i said...the difference is bare. they do look good though..if you wanna go for just looks.

most cars today come stock with atleast the front lower bar.

Starlet_GT...this is for you. Stop posting what you dont know...

1) Suspension never cracks if there is no lower strut bar
2) Strut bars can be effective without any engine mods..there is no pre-requsite. Like i said, you need to upgrade to stiffer springs or adjustable coilovers.
3) Mods dont do any harm to your suspension if you do them right.

[kiani1]

Thanx @ szuberi...

Yes, I knew the basics before too but as I was gonna build a custom one, I just wanted to know if its gonna be doin somethin cool or not..

Plus, my car has both understeer and over steer. Its a 93 alto wid radical mods and it has a lot of wheel spin in the first and second gears. When I drive fast into or out of corners, my car like twists like a snake and then comes round. I wanted to do this to improve the handling in corners as I have a bad habit of driving fast @ corners.

THanx man!

[szuberi]

Kiani...what kind of RADICAL mods you have done to your car. Unless you are carrying hundres of pounds of wieght in your trunk or diggy, i dont see any reason why an alto would over-steer. I cant imagine that you are running on boost...that would be a radical mod to an alto.

You can corner better if you have lower profile tires (stiffer side wall) and the best option is to upgrade your suspension. That is by far the most effective option. Stock shocks and springs are meant for ride comfort more than anything else...let alone performance.

[kiani1]

Actually, I have a standard carburator with BIGGER JETS. The dizzy (distributor) has been modified to advance ignition a lot more. The Head has been resurfaced to increase compression to 9.5 : 1 . Custom made exhaust headers with 3-1 design coupled with a free flowing muffler.

I run NGK Iridium IX's and HT Ignition leads. Still need a grounding kit though.... Top speed is 160 easy limited by the 4 speed tranny.

So, after all this stuff done, its got a cool power to weight ratio and If u stab the throttle just too far down for too long on 90 degree turns, it has a little oversteer. I can show u da car anytime in June if ur in Islamabad. Thanx for da help mate.

[kizzi]

A strut bar or strut brace is a mostly aftermarket car suspension accessory used in conjunction with MacPherson struts on monocoque or unibody chassis to provide extra strength between the strut towers.

With a MacPherson strut suspension system where the spring and shock absorber are combined in the one suspension unit, the entire vertical suspension load is transmitted to the top of the vehicle's strut tower, unlike a double wishbone suspension where the spring and shock absorber may share the load separately. In general terms, a strut tower in a monocoque chassis is a reinforced portion of the inner wheel well and is not necessarily directly connected to the main chassis rails. For this reason there is inherent flex within the strut towers relative to the chassis rails.

A strut bar is designed to reduce this strut tower flex by tying two parallel strut towers together. This transmits the load of each strut tower during cornering via tension and compression of the strut bar which shares the load between both towers and reduces chassis flex.

A direct result of this is improved chassis rigidity (similar to that gained from a lower tie bar); hence, the understeer is reduced, tire wear improved and metal fatigue is greatly reduced in the strut tower area. Following the aftermarket's lead, some manufacturers have started fitting strut bars to performance models, including the NISSAN Skyline R34 and the HOLDEN VY II Commodore, as standard equipment.

[Starlet_GT]

@szuberi

I think that you have some bookish knowledge or you are talking what you have listed from others...

I had personally experienced of what I stated earlier...
in a stock car if there are no sturd bars then there is no need that’s why manufacturer don’t bother to put it in … If I put 100whp+ engine in the same setup and drag car on the track then what happened … defiantly it harm chasis & suspension as well coz the stock setup is not supporting up to that extent … I my self had this bad experience and now I have custom made sturd bars in my car … and even I know what actual is the difference driving without bars and with bars …

DO NOT CRITICIZE ANY ONE JUST TRY TO SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE … DON’T THINK PEOPLE ARE STUPID HERE ON THIS FORUM.

[FLi_GTi]

It does not matter if the car's an FF or an FR. Road going cars don't get strut bars because they intented to be driven in moderation. I've seen 800hp supras with no struts because they're for strip use only. If you've got a heavy foot, its always a good idea to get them intalled as they WILL reduce flex.
Bazigh, you should concntrate on the inherent flaws in the local Suzi. I did a lowering spring conversion on my brothers' Mehran and although i stuck to the factory specified rolling stock the car started showing fatigue after 5 months of hard driving. The notorious stress point are the front cross memeber, the bridge panel and the A-piller. I had the spot welds on the driver's side come loose in just 6 months and not to critisize you or anything but any sort of effort is wasted on the Mehran/Alto/Fronte.

[kiani1]

@ FLi_GTi

No offense taken man! I really do agree wid u. But one thing is clear which I will prove later on in June, it is that those Alto's which came after 1994 had lower standard parts. Those ones produced in the years 1988 - late 1993 were better off than the newer ones.

Actually, I recently scraped some mm's off my head and increased the compression to 9.5 : 1 cuz I run Petrol all da time. After that, there was a huge huge leap in performance, nearly 7hp (good enuf for a .8 capacity engine). At turns, the car twists and stuff so was just looking into my options to better that.

I will show u the cars acceleration in June wheneva ur free. Cheerz!

[khattak]

hmmm, interesting discussion
btw, i dont get the "lower" strut bar. i am no expert, so i was under the impression that the strut bar/brace is meant to stop chassis flex while the lower "anti-roll" bars are meant to stop the body roll due to the springiness of the suspension. am i wrong? since even FLi didnt point this out, does that mean i was wrong?! [with utmost respect to U adeel]!!!
further, i also dont get this alto with both under and over steer! i would like to drive it too if u dont mind, kiani1!
p.s. szuberi, we respect your knowledge, be it practical or booking, but kindly respect others opinions. if they are wrong, it can be pointed out respectfully too. we're all friends here

[FLi_GTi]

There's confusion because its called a lower "Tie" bar, not a "strut" bar. It mounts transversly between the front suspension and is fastened at either end to pivot points/ bushes at either end of the crossmember/subframe.

[khattak]

yaar, FLi, i am planning to install a rear anti-roll bar in my car. would it compromise the comfort of the car in any way? i have a feeling that the car would become a bit uncomfortable if ONE wheel goes over a bump, or into a rut, while the other stays level. i mean, the bumps wont be absorbed as smoothly as they would if the suspension stays independant. hmmm, doenst that mean the ride would become stiffer even if BOTH wheels go over bumps too? HELP!lol. i hate it when i think so much! i am saving my brain for my old days!

[khattak]

and damage yaar, ab to AAP cha gaye! lolsss. this should be everyones spirit yaar!

[FLi_GTi]

You don't need one in the back to begin with, the one upfront is more effective as there's more load towards the front. So your ride quality's definitly going to go down.
I'm presuming you're asking this for the Corona, if you're having a wobbly rear end, just dial in a couple of degrees of negative camber at the back, should serve you just fine!

[khattak]

basically, i want the torsion bar cuz when i drift round corners, the car rolls a lot, and then fishtails ofcourse. flat cornering is what i had in mind. just to add, i drift around corners once a month maybe, but the comfort factor i need everyday. so u suggest the compromise wouldnt be acceptable?!

[kiani1]

@ Khattak

Theres a mistake on my part... I meant understeer and a thing refered to as TORQUE STEER.. When I push the pedal hard at slow speeds and the tires start to roll, the steering tries to go to either side and becomes very light...and hard to control. I suppose this is known as Torque Steer and wanted a Bar to prevent this.

FLi_GTi, do tell me what this condition is known as...

[khattak]

dear Kiani! since Fli is too busy setting up his furniture shop, allow me to address ur problem!
u r right, u have a torque steer problem. and anti-roll bars or struts wont solve this problem. You need traction control to solve this, which i doubt u can find in an alto. u can also use Limited Slip Differentials but they will cost a lot, and u have to buy them abroad. a company called Quaiffe,in UK, has an excellent solution to this problem. its called a Torque biasing differential, i think, and its almost the same as a limited slip differential. will cost u around 50 to 60 thousand rupees if they have one available for an alto, probably more if u have one custom-made.
under the current circumstances, the best thing u can do is, use wider tires.
theres another thing u can do,but u have to practice it. when going into a turn, point ur tires a bit short than where u actually want them to go. i mean, try to turn sharper than what u actually want. when u power out of the turn, ur tires will slip and end up somewhere closer to where u wanted them to go! this needs a lot of practice, so dont try it on busy roads. also, the road surface and the camber changes due to the roads irregularities will affect this technique.
hope u have strong axles!

[kiani1]

THanx @ All

The problem is not solved but I guess I'll have to live wid it!!

[lowresolution]

yaar the poster bhai jaan garee kon c hai ap kay pass ??
u posted in another thread .....that u have a mehran ??
is that true ?