The Alternative Energy Thread - Generators, Solar, UPS, Wind

[sk_cooldayz]

Then you said that nepra will not deny net meter if setup exceeds sanctioned load

I don't remember saying this - You can check with someone from nepra or some solar providers. As much as I remember from last year, the solar connection company told us that we can have 10kw system as that is our sanctioned load.

[mussaleem]

I have attached the proposal of 6.5kw ongrid solar system with 10kw inverter suntrio plus, DC Wire Aiwa/Fast Cable, AC Cable Pakistan Cables/Fast Cables.

I would appreciate feedback on the items and overall price please.

[centos]

I had an other phone meeting with Sky electric people and later one of their engineers called me back answer my questions.

The 36 lacs for 20 KW system I mentioned before is a hybrid solar system with 20 KWh lithium ion battery pack like the tesla battery pack. Lithium ion batteries are very expensive and one of the best. They have very high efficiency and very long life. In traditional lead acid including dry/agm, you can use only 60% of the rated capacity. For example if you have 100 amp battery only 60-70 amps are use able because you are not supposed to charge it over 90% and discharge less than 20-30%. But with lithium ion you can use 95% of the rated capacity and battery life is rated to be 10+ years.

Today they have sent me detailed quotes.

Hybrid 20KW with 20KWh lithium battery pack = 3,385,000
Hybrid 10KW with 10KWh lithium battery pack = 1,700,000
Hybrid 5KW with 5KWh lithium battery pack = 8,800,000

On-Grid 20KW (no battery pack) = 2,061,778

Their hybrid systems with lithium battery packs seem good value for money. If you can program your inverter to run the load from the battery pack during the peak times, you don't have to worry about paying your disco any thing, and you also get good back up in case of load shedding.

[centos]

They also sent me a demo video. In that video around 5 mins mark the guy talks about setting up the inverter to use battery during peak rate times. That is a very good feature that helps avoid getting peak time charges. There are inverters available that you can setup like this but what you really need for this to work is a large and life long battery pack that they are offering.

Video demonstration is very interesting and I don't know if any other company is offering such services. I impressed with their customer services and offering so far.

I have uploaded the video for benefit of all. Sky electric video demo

[centos]

On-Grid 20 KW Quotation

[pwuser150013678596]

Sorry bro it was someone else who said that my bad.

that guy said that lesco will not deny any setup over the sanctioned load. His argument was that sometimes people upgrade panels and add more capacity without telling lesco and still net metering gets fed. I think it is the "ZIG ZAG" way of getting a higher system.

I visited LESCO today and came to know that I can either purchase a 25KV transformer or 50 KV transformer from them. 25 KV transformer will allow me to have maximum 18 KW solar system on a 25 KV transformer. 50KV transformer will allow me around 30-35 kw solar setup.

With 50KV transformer i cannot have 2 meters, only one meter will be allowed but with 25KV i can install 2 meters for a house.

I also found out that i am being charged by lesco as per 0.6KW load tariff lol. So basically i am being hit by every slab possible. This is because for 2 kanal houses they require you to buy your own transformer if the house is new. In case of old 2 kanal houses with connection from lesco owned transformers, the tariff is under load of 0.6KW. can you believe it, that is 600 WATT load sanctioned for 2 kanal. This in turn causes massive bills.

[pwuser150013678596]

Interesting, please ask skyelectric for Huawei 36 KTL (36 KW) on grid quotation with 20KW panels.

Its better to have a high capacity inverter as you may want to upgrade panels later on. Difference between 20kw AND 36 KW is very very minor for huawei. Go for 36KTL, sky electric carries this model.
From authorized dealer this Huawei 36KW inverter costs 387,000 rupees with 5 year replacement warranty.

Let me know what they quote you

[talhawaleed]

I have a 24kW net-metering connection with IESCO, rules are pretty much same for all companies such as LESCO, KSC, IESCO etc.

You should install 30kw System and that will zero your (80k to 1Lac Rupees) bills, thing which you will need to take care of is to utilize every inch of your roof top wisely as otherwise you wont be able to fit 30kW system on it.

Its worth every penny and what ever you will spend will be returned to you within the span of 3-4 years and remaining 15-20 years of income will be bonus.

Install one big inverter of 30 or 35KW, it will be cost effective and plus these big inverters are very well built rather then small inverters.

On complete cloudy days, you will get something and it wont be zero, lets suppose that of each day, you produce and sell 150units and between 3-4 days within a month, you are only able to sell 30-40 units due to cloudy days. you will still have a very good average.

plus n a year, for 6 months, you will accumulate lot of money and units from your solar and remaining 6 months would be where you may would have to borrow or even utilize what you have earned on those earlier 6 months. Like for example, my bill on months of MArch, april and may was negative Rs. 41000 and now during june, july, we have 4 Air conditioners running full time so apart from producing 3000 units in june, we had to pay for additional 658 units of Rs. 16800 which was deducted from our accumulated balance of 41000 with IESCO and now we have remaining Rs. 23000 left with IESCO and portion of which may be utilized in july's bill which would be billed on 15th-August.

[talhawaleed]

i bought CHINT 30KW grid tie inverter in August2017 and it costed me USD 2500 when Price of Dollar was Rs.102. i am in love with this inverter as its a very good machine and never ever i have faced any issue with it. it came with 5 year international warranty.

[talhawaleed]

Let me correct you, its not like this, many people in LESCO, IESCO etc are completely unaware of regulations.

you can install a solar system 1.5 * your authorized Load capacity. mostly authorized load capacity for three phase meters by default is 7kW so you may have to request them to increase your load capacity.

Now this is mostly a paper work and they may do it on papers till 15kw but if you want to increase further, they will ask you to install an additional transformer.

now that transformer maybe of 25kW or 50KW that depends upon you. 25kW transfer for a residential home is good enough provided if its well built. On 25kw transformer, then can easily authorize you with a load capacity of 30 to 35kw, that depends upon your local SDO.

once your application will go to NEPRA, it will have an attached copy of your previous bill and on it , it would be mentioned that you current or authorize load capacity if 30KW or 25KW. they will simply multiply (your authorized load capacity by 1.5) which for example may be (25KW * 1.5) is 37.5 KW and that is well within the limits of your 30kW application and since you want to install a 30KW system so you need an authorized load capacity of 20KW on your bill. as 30kw/1.5=20kw.

Now this entire drama that you need a 50KW transformer is a money making tactics by your local IESCO/LESCO office. Most of the local IESCO/LESCO offices are completely unaware of NEPRA's regulation regarding net-metering connection.

Just tell them that you want your load capacity to be increased to lets say 21KW to be safe as you want to install a solar system. HE wont understand a shit about as what you are talking about. HE may ask you to install a transformer, just agree to install a 25KW transfer for your home and they may charge you 2-3 lac's for it. This paper work is completely independent from your Net-metering connection paper work and should be considered as preparation for your upcoming big plan or you can say,initial requirement full filling phase.

rest that you have a 2 canal house or 3 canal house is all about confusing you and making you spend more as LESCO/IESCO has so regulations regarding this.

[mrdeejay]

Don't get Sky electric, I saw pics of one of their units opened up and its basically a Voltronic Infini Plus 10KW Inverter inside. Lithium battery packs you can buy yourself as well. Your cost will be 2-3 times less.

[sk_cooldayz]

I have attached the proposal of 6.5kw ongrid solar system with 10kw inverter suntrio plus, DC Wire Aiwa/Fast Cable, AC Cable Pakistan Cables/Fast Cables.

This is the same company i got my connection from last year give him my reference Hassan from ISB DHA. Ask him to give good rates.

[ashfaqad]

Need Help from Folks regarding an upcoming House Construction near Hills at Shah Allah Dita
we are a single family , the plot size is 2800 SQ FEET ,
Wapda voltage is low , some of the household I asked has voltage issue , electrical appliances are not working .

2 inverters splits 1.5 ton
1 water motor 1 05 0.5 horse power
and the usual house load ,

I try to search on internet but I couldn't find a solution regarding
Diesel Genset along with ? KwA system for this not yet constructed house ,

Folks I will really appreacte your help , if its even possible , we intend to live in this house for 5 years maximum ,

Wapda might provide later on , but that's not a sure thing .

regards

[pwuser150013678596]

You are a wonderful guy.

My issue is my transformer is lesco owned so my tariff for 3100 units is based on a sanctioned load of 0.6KW yes thats 600 WATT load. Therefore in my bill i am billed for units on every slab. In order to get NEPRA 2 part tariff (peak off peak) i have to install my own transformer.

For 2 Kanal houses it is a LESCO policy that if the house is being built new, the person has to buy own transformer through lesco or will not get lesco connection. For old 2 kanal houses who already have a meter, they will not get additional meter (for example if owner wants separate meter for upstairs, he cannot get that). Old 2 kanal houses who are already connected to lesco owned transformer are billed at sanctioned load of 0.6KW and therefore end up paying way more than if they had their own transformer. This is policy. I have approached lesco CEO office, Power ministry and they all said 2 kanal house will have to buy transformer.

Now @talhawaleed I talked to LESCO SDO and their engineer, they said if you have a 25KVA transformer you will not be allowed to operate a solar system of more than 18KW.

He said if i buy a 50KVA transformer then I will get one boxed meter (like in plazas)and cannot get more than 1 meter and that i will be allowed 30-35KW solar system on this.

He personally recommended me to buy 25KVA transformer as he said procedure for 50KVA transformer is lengthy and complicated for residential, but said if i plan to install a 30KW solar setup, then i should get 50KVA.

Also sky electric quotation document mentions that sanctioned load will have to be changed by customer himself.

I will have a meeting with him on Monday to figure this out. I will ask him the 1.5x sanctioned load thing you mentioned.

Question for @talhawaleed
1. You said "if transformer is well built", do i have a choice? i am being asked to write load extension application to SDO, and then they will quote me transformer, pole charges etc, i dont think I can buy my own transformer, they will provide me a challan that i have to deposit and they will commission a new transformer.
2. which company did you use for the 24kw SYSTEM?

Thanks man.

[pwuser150013678596]

@talhawaleed I called SDO and told him its sanctioned load X 1.5 and he agreed. Thanks man.

So basically he said they can only internally sanction upto 16KW on a 25KVA transformer so i will only be allowed to get 25KW solar setup according to 16 x 1.5 = 24 KW.

However price of 25KVA and 50KVA is like this. This is only transformer price.
25 KVA transformer is for 1.5 lacs.
50 KVA transformer is 2 lacs.

So although price difference is 50k, you have to go through a complicated process for 50KVA transformer for residential use.

[talhawaleed]

I would advice you to install 25KW system on a 30kW Grid Tie inverter, later, once your system is approved and running, add remaining 5KW solar panels on it.

[talhawaleed]

This kind of seems like a Joke, everywhere in IESCO and LESCO, they are running entire street on one 50KW transformer.

Either they dont understand, even if you install 25KW transformer, you should be least allowed to install 25KW * 1.5 = 37.5KW system on it and least they can approve a load of 25KW as the transformer is serving your home alone, not entire street.

further, at times its better that you launch an increase in load capacity application with LESCO/IESCO without giving them lot of details regarding what the NEPRA regulations are.

Just tell them, i want to increase the load capacity of my home to 25kW as i intend to install a solar system on it. These people once they get locked on certain things, then you cannot get a way forward without agreeing to them. once you share so many details, discuss the NEPRA regulations with them then they are enlightened and try to screw things with their own science or maybe different intentions.

If you solely own a 2 canal home and intend to install a big 30kW system then their is no point of installing two different meters. One Net-Metering connection is all you want to have your bills multiplied by Zero. In three phase connection, if you have two meters or single meter, you bill would remain the same. but for gas connection, it is advisable to have two meters as they have a slab system which acts as exponential once your units increases.

with 30kw system, trust me, you will shift your home heating systems to electric and your reliance on Gas with go down to minimum. So, its a double saving, which is Electricity + Gas bills.

My entire installation is with my own hands, I myself have prepared the entire application, at that time, it was mandatory to get a certificate from electrical inspector islamabad region so process so slightly different from now, but basic NEPRA regulations were the same.

[centos]

Which inverter and panels do you currently have and where do you live in DHA. I'd like to know how high can I go with panels on the roof in DHA. I'd like to put them high up to leave a clear space of at least 6 feet beneath them.

The house I am building is in final grey structure phase. It's in DHA near Raya golf club. We are going to put mumty lentil tomorrow and build the water tank. Then comes the roof insulation etc. But before that I want to put concrete blocks on the sides next to the concrete walls so I can later put in metal pillars in them to hold beams that carry the solar panels.

My current yearly consumption is about 10k units and I don't see my usage going above 15k units in next 5 years. So I think 10KW system is good enough for me. Some one in another thread shared total units produced in one day in june from their 10KW setup, it was 60 units. Let's say that's the best a 10KW system can produce in one sunny day, multiply that to 365, and multiply that to 0.7 to remove 30% to compensate for less production days of winter and cloudy days, we get 15,330 units. Of course production depends on many factors like the kind of panels being used and how they are put up to utilize the sunlight properly or not.

[centos]

In case you go for hybrid, and you are producing 8 KW on a 10KW system, and you need a total of 13 KW. then the inverter will pull in the 5 KW from gird. If you are producing 8KW but using 2KW. then the inverter will export 6 KW to Grid.This is for hybrid inverter.

Are you sure about this that a 10 KW hybrid inverter can support a load of 13 KW, also why can't the on-grid inverter do this.

If the inverter can take care of loads greater than their limit by sharing with the grid I can put the inverter in front of the full house load and not worry about figuring out the load.

[centos]

To keep things simple you can get a 10KW Hybrid inverter, I think it supports upto 12-15KW PV panels. But don't connect ACs with inverter Output, connect them with Grid. Since you'll have net metering, the units will get balanced out when ACs are running. The benefit is when grid is down and its cloudy ACs won't drain the batteries so the batteries will last a lot longer, plus you don't have to get a really big inverter to run all ACs at the same time.

We have whole house (literally entire 1 kanal house except ACs) running on 10KW inverter. Since ACs are not on inverter, we can run AC in any room and benefit from net metering, not have to worry about overloading inverter. The only downside is when grid is down ACs won't work. Fortunately, in our area, there is no load-shedding except for occasional grid repair work.

How does that work.

Let's say you are producing 7KW of solar power during the day. Your house load is only 1KW. You use the 1KW from solar and export remaining 6KW.

But if you turn on your AC which is not connected to the inverter, it won't take solar power but power from the grid. Now how will the meter decide to import or export the power because the AC needs grid power but you also need to feed the solar power back to grid.