The Alternative Energy Thread - Generators, Solar, UPS, Wind

[imhaseeb_khan200]

Assalam-o-Alaikum

I am from Karachi. Need a little bit of help understanding the OnGrid Solar system.

Recently I have installed 15KW onGrid Solar system from a company called BeyondGreen. They have installed the following things
27 Solar plates 545 watt Longi Company
20KW Sun grow inverter
SunGrow Smart Meter aka 0 Export Device

It has been a month since I am using the system but unfortunately, I didn't check my K-Electric meter I was only checking Smart meter for unit consumption.

The issue I am facing is that on day time when solar starts my K-Electric meter is also running. For example If I am running 3 AC with other stuff like 2 fridges and 1 deep freezer and other lights and fans etc. The App I have it shows me my home load is 4kw to 5 kW and all of its coming from solar in day time but after a month I noticed my k-electric meter is also consuming units in the day time.

My understanding is when solar is running in daylight the meter should stop no matter the load is until the load is under 15kw

I have called the company and they checked and said there is no issue with the system but again my question is why the k-electric meter is running in day time? I have 3 phase meter and applied for Net metering. So right now I am using normal 3 phase meter.

Can anyone please explain because after installing solar we are consuming same amount of unit before installing solar.

[AkbarGr8]

Hi Haseeb,

You need to check if your zero export device is configured correctly, i.e. excess units are not being sent to the grid (since you have a regular meter, any units sent to the grid are considered import even though you are exporting to the grid.

Also, another setting to check regarding zero expert device is how it's configured to work. E.g my device had two options:

1) the lowest load across all three phases is selected and used for self consumption. This is very safe since there is no possibility of exporting units to the grid in the absence of a net meter.

2) add load of all 3 phases and equally send same load across all 3 phases. In this scenario there is a possibility where one of the phase has extra power (i.e. lower load) and the excess is sent to the grid, thereby your meter runs.

I hope this makes sense and try getting hold of an engineer from beyond green to discuss this with. Sales folks are probably least interested in your case now.

Good luck!

[imhaseeb_khan200]

I also did some research and you exactly pointed out the issue which is load balancing on all three phases. I just caught my issue. when the load is less on any phase the meter runs.

My zero export device is configured propelry. The issue is with 3-phase load balancing. I wasn't aware of that but now I am

Again Jazakallah Khair bro.

[AkbarGr8]

Awesome, so glad to hear! Go with option 1 if that's a possibility. JazakAllah

[mrdeejay]

Question for Inverter experts here: Which Power Standard do you have set in Inverter?

1. VDE0126
2. VDE4105

[capsat]

VDE0126 describes the disconnection of device(s) from grid doesn't have much to do or state anything about actual frequency or voltage range. "The automatic disconnection device is used as a safety interface between the generator and the public low-voltage distribution net and serves as a substitute for a disconnecting switch accessible at all times by the distributing network operator. It prevents the unintentional supply of electrical energy from the generator into a subnetwork disconnected from the rest of the distribution grid (islanding)..."

VDE4105 "This VDE application guide compiles the technical requirements for the connection of generation and storage units to the low voltage network of a network operator. It provides guidance for planning and decision making both for network operators and installers. The operator also receives useful information for the operation of such installations. "

(Generator here is referred to Solar Panel Bank)

[cukeee]

AssalamoAlaikum

I am situated in Lahore DHA(Phase 12) aka EME Society and need advice and support regarding the installation of solar system. House is 1 kanal and we use about 1300 units in summer to about 350 units in winter as a rough estimate. So a 10KW system seems appropriate plus considering unstable economy and price hikes and the on going renovations of the house its a good time to install. I've also contacted a few solar companies and have gotten quotations and not sure which is better plus which inverter is of a better build quality and reliability.

1) I've done some search and seen videos plus a few forums and am a bit confused as to which will be better a 10KW hybrid or on grid and if hybrid will a system with one inverter be better or two and if so how many KW of each inverter.
2) Are bi-facial solar panels are worth the extra cost or wait in my case as most of the companies have it out of stock.
3)Which structure is more suitable as the only obstacles are mumty and water tank, galvanised iron or aluminium and how high.
4) Are lithium ions worth the extra cost considering there is minimal load shedding and at peak is about 2-3 hours a day during summers.
5) 3 phase or 1 phase and if using 2 inverters both 3P or how so ?

Edit: I have attached Quotations from 3 Solar companies of both 10kw ongrid and hybrid so in total 6 quotations.

@AkbarGr8 @centos @capsat @AbbasJin @saqibhassan95 @mrdeejay @raza1

[AkbarGr8]

Hi Abdul Saboor, @cukeee

W.Salaam. let me just say I'm very upset looking at the quotes and the unethical pricing (someone excluding gst or removing essentials such as earthing pit cost). The prices are downright outrageous. Please call Mudassir at 03004348817 and give my reference. He can assist you with your installation in lahore and provide excellent pricing.

Let's just say I'm a difficult customer and he has been able to satisfy my requirements - call him as I've briefed him already.

Coming back to your questions:

1) Go for hybrid, esp since you're in lahore. I would recommend a 10kw inverter with 12kw panels. Bridge two 5kw hybrid inverters if needed to achieve your goal.

2) No

3) If you go for roof mounted L2/L3 structure (you lose space on your roof) will save you a lot of money. Aluminium not needed as you won't have rust issues.

4) There are now local lithium batteries available at very competitive prices. Go for this, very convenient compared to traditional wet batteries. Ask mudassir for more info.

5) In lahore 1 phase net metering is supported - ask your solar installer for guidance. In KHI we're forced to opt for 3P.

All the best, please keep me posted.

[centos]

Now is not a good time to get solar because of the import ban so there is very little stock in the market so who ever has it is charging sky high prices. Most importantly good hybrid inverters like nitrox or onyx are not even available.

I too need 2 solar setups but I am holding off for now. But who knows dollar goes to 300 tomorrow and we are even worse off. I am thinking about buying the panels and batteries now and then wait for the inverters to be available again, let's see.

Answers to your questions:

1. It's a bet, you can never be sure. If there is load shedding then hybrid is the way to go. If you already have a UPS and there is little to no load shedding then on-grid is the best. In case of hybrid I'd prefer 2 x 6 KW nitorx/onyx instead of a 10 KW inverter.

2. No

3. Hot dip galvanized iron or just iron with paint on it.

4. Lipo4 will last 2-3 times longer than the deep cycle so they are worth the money but if there is no or little load shedding then you can live with a small battery bank of tubular batteries.

5. 3 phase in case of on-grid, single phase in case of hybrid

[capsat]

such a bay sharam vendor, in age of internet submitting a quote so high is quiet unethical / unprofessional.

start gathering data yourself as in itemized quote for panels, inverter & batteries via email.
add a reasonable amount for integrator fee.

I'd not recommend net metering. The Service providers across Pakistan are lobbying with NEPRA to FIX the no of units for "producer" to claim adjustment, and drop the per unit charge adjustment as well. It is only matter of time before cartels prevail.

[AkbarGr8]

I would advise you to buy your stuff now - I was in the same ordeal back in June thinking I'd buy after GST withdrawal but thank God I didn't wait.

Are there any particular inverters that you're interested in buying? I can ask my guy for pricing and availability.

[centos]

Yes I am looking for one Nitrox 6KW and one Nitrox 8KW. Thanks

[AkbarGr8]

@centos available, just got these prices:

6kw 345k
8kw 460k

[cukeee]

Greatly appreciate it. I talked to him in detail yesterday and today and he still has yet to send me the quotation and I think the more I wait the worse it might get considering the economic instability.On the other hand I've contacted one of our close family friends (a solar dealer and installer) who might be able to cut a really good deal, although they have limited stocks atm.

[cukeee]

@centos Many Thanks : ) and @capsat it is what it is. In the end the consumer always loses, the average citizen suffers. I guess all we can do is hope for the best and make do with what we get.

[AkbarGr8]

Awesome, sounds good! Keep bugging him on WhatsApp tell he sends you a quote - may the best installer win Good luck.

[capsat]

Yes I am looking for one Nitrox 6KW and one Nitrox 8KW. Thanks

Inverex had a huge fire at their warehouse in Korangi Karachi, 3 sections of new hardware were totally destroyed. They are suffering serious hardware shortage as in NEW equipment, and their after sales support workshop is stumbling due to lack of Spare Parts. Please exercise caution and verify product genuine_ness when buying.

[centos]

Thanks

I have had similar quotes too but that's black rate, that is more than double the retail price.

[centos]

Thanks. I am holding off for now. Hopefully availability will get better in next few months.

[AkbarGr8]

Sounds good, no worries. If USD crosses 250+, I foresee the black rate to become the standard purchase price. In the past 6 months, prices have gone up significantly and I don't see any chance of improvement looking at our bleak economic outlook.

All the best!