The "EC1 Scam" Thread

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

I think you are a bit over yourself here. I can asset with surety that I had access to Toyota Crown/Corona/Cresta/Corolla/Hiace/Hilux/Land Cruiser/Coaster parts like a kid in a candy store - I could get used parts of "model specific code" delivered to my place of business from outside of Pakistan with no problems in very short time. I could get a plethora of other brand car parts too, all tested and working.

Anyway thats not the discussion.

What we are looking at here is that you said a gray market car came in with severe driveability problems. The toyota dealership gave it full marks and A OK (very odd or the dealership should actually close their doors) - then you say that the owner did not want to spend any reasonable amount of money to repair his "luxury" car because according to him the total cost of repairs are OVER the cost of USED ENGINE - you also report that the injectors were bad, the Fuel pump control module was bypassed etc.etc.

Such customer should never ever be entertained in any respectable workshop.

Then you say that the car was tuned to perfection by an add on box that fooled the ECU and somehow the "clogged" fuel injectors started to work and the engine started to work properly - that too a direct injection one - its a remarkable feat no doubt but I have my concerns too - I have worked on some engine control systems ranging from these passenger cars like toyota crowns to heavy machinery that costs multiple of millions in USD. machines big enough that they take 800 litres engine oil. Uptil today I have not seen any driver unit capable of reworking a clogged injector to the extent of the engine running good after a complete failure run. You also mention that you go to 16:1 AFR and still face no knock on regular pump petrol used in Pakistan. high AFR on high CR engine in a simple wet manifold otto cycle gasoline engine is bad - its till the range of misfire - in a direct injection I know it can do that on overrun or cruise as the fuel spray can absorb the heat from the charge air - but still it has to go back to 14:1 to keep NOx down and to keep knock at bay.

The last bit is what is very strange - thats the major question here. I posted about LTFT to which you have not replied correctly, any correct working ECU will work the engine to be at 0.0 STFT and a range of +/-5% LTFT is considered acceptable - it keeps the duty cycle of the injectors in mid.

Its pretty nice what you have - if you say it works, but instead of using customer's cars why not make a test rig (you should have a lot of engines lying around if you are the sole supplier of Toy Crown parts) then do control and run tests like any proper lab would do.

ok xulfiqar saab you had pretty meesed up my word's and started a war over here I had mentioned that we are dealing in the spare's of TOYOTA CROWN since 1990 and are the sole dealer's of it in Twin city. I had put forward a simpler case in which a customer was not willing to replace the part's for better of his vehicle . DID I STATED IN THE PREVIOUS POST'S THAT I HAD CONTROLLED THE AFR BY INSTALLING THE EC1 SETUP IN THAT CROWN TO CONTROLL THE CLOGGED INJECTOR'S. YOU HAD NOT READED IT CAREFULLY. AND ALSO THE FUEL TRIM'S WHICH I HAD POSTED WAS OFF ANOTHER VEHICLE WHICH WAS OF CHINEES BRAND WILL POST IT RESULT'S TOMMOROW AFTER TEST TRIAL'S PLEASE BECAREFULL IN READING MY POST'S AGAIN AS YOU SOME TIME MIXED UP THE TOPIC'S WITH SOME DIFFERENT DISCUSSION. AND YES I HAD TESTED MY SYSTEM AND MANY OF THE ENGINE'S I HAD IN MY YARD'S ALL OF THEM RESPONDED ON THE SAME MANEER AS THE POSTED RESULT'S OF THE VEHICLE'S DID.

[SER_GTR]

You Just Posted Same Thing 3 Times My Friend....!

B.t.w Praise To Your EC1 As The User Hameed01 Just Tried A Better Built(Atleast Exposed) Setup On Modern ECU Like Vitz...And It Simply Neglect The Effect....He Posted It Clean And Clear And ALso Hook Up oscilloscope To Confirm It.....! Yes He Told It Clean It Clear As It Was Expected I Will Happen.....

The ECU Have Many Ways To READ ANd Revert Back Your Changes My DEAR .....! As I Said Earlier Some 90's ECU Might Fall In Trap With It And That's ALso If You NEED.....They Can Still Be Make Work Better WIth OEM Setup If Provided Working Sensors.....!

Let Me Give You An Example Of Pre 00' ANd Post 2000 ECU's

Pre 2000's Are Like One Face DRAGON......You Cut Of One HEAD....You Can Make It DUMB

The Post 2000 ECU's ARe 12-14 HEaded Dragon Which Flies.....It WIll SIMPLY KILL You Before You Cut Other 12 Head.....

So Its Useless To Mess With These Intelligent ECU's UNless You Get Into Roots Of These ECU's MAP's.....They Are Built Quiet Intelligent
What People Do Is Replace Them With STANDALONE For Their OWN COntrol....That's When They Want Performance...ANd Have Real Upgrades In Hand....
Its Simple ....You Need To PLAY??? You Got To Pay Buddy

In SImple Words...You Need Economy OUT OF IT..??? You Need To FOLLOW Their Rules And Have To Provide The Required SENSORS....Else Bear With The Consequences.....! They Are Based On MAF/MAP And 02 Readings Backed Up With Almost Every Other Sensor Out There On Your Engine.......

EVen The Expensive PIGGYBACk ECU's Fail In Many Places...!!

[VCheng]

if he says what he says then I have a question, how does he determine the POST cat o2 sensor is trying to adjust the trim the fuel, Its only job is to monitor the cat performance - it has no effect on trim. Its error when logged can only signal the ECU to not let the engine go to full potential as the cat might melt down and cause the vehicle to stall out.

In the toyota crown he says that the AFR sensor was showing stable voltage of 0.5V - but he did not share what was the fuel trim at that - if his wideband showed 11.4:1 ratio - that means that his exhaust would literally be spewing black smoke on that direction injection engine and the engine oil would have been half replaced by petrol.

It should be painfully clear to you by now that this individual has no idea which end of the horse he is looking at, spewing gobbledygook to hide his utter ignorance of all matters technical related to this discussion. This may again be harsh but the truth nonetheless.

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

You Just Posted Same Thing 3 Times My Friend....!

B.t.w Praise To Your EC1 As The User Hameed01 Just Tried A Better Built(Atleast Exposed) Setup On Modern ECU Like Vitz...And It Simply Neglect The Effect....He Posted It Clean And Clear And ALso Hook Up oscilloscope To Confirm It.....! Yes He Told It Clean It Clear As It Was Expected I Will Happen.....

The ECU Have Many Ways To READ ANd Revert Back Your Changes My DEAR .....! As I Said Earlier Some 90's ECU Might Fall In Trap With It And That's ALso If You NEED.....They Can Still Be Make Work Better WIth OEM Setup If Provided Working Sensors.....!

Let Me Give You An Example Of Pre 00' ANd Post 2000 ECU's

Pre 2000's Are Like One Face DRAGON......You Cut Of One HEAD....You Can Make It DUMB

The Post 2000 ECU's ARe 12-14 HEaded Dragon Which Flies.....It WIll SIMPLY KILL You Before You Cut Other 12 Head.....

So Its Useless To Mess With These Intelligent ECU's UNless You Get Into Roots Of These ECU's MAP's.....They Are Built Quiet Intelligent
What People Do Is Replace Them With STANDALONE For Their OWN COntrol....That's When They Want Performance...ANd Have Real Upgrades In Hand....
Its Simple ....You Need To PLAY??? You Got To Pay Buddy

In SImple Words...You Need Economy OUT OF IT..??? You Need To FOLLOW Their Rules And Have To Provide The Required SENSORS....Else Bear With The Consequences.....! They Are Based On MAF/MAP And 02 Readings Backed Up With Almost Every Other Sensor Out There On Your Engine.......

EVen The Expensive PIGGYBACk ECU's Fail In Many Places...!!

yes brother you are right abut the pre 00 vehicle's they are easier to fool around and any one can get control on it easily if he understand the whole working principle. the OBD 2 vehicle's are different from the obd1 ecu's they are monitoring from maf /map and o2 continuosly for precise AFR stability. But in obd 2 case we are altering the Map /Maf + O2 reading's to take the control. I had shown some data picture's with which I lean the vehicle to about 20% and the fuel trim's were on -35 side so just wait until tommorow the vehicle is arriving again and I will again retune it at different economy setting's and will post their resut's with live data monitoring. Mein in loogon ko nahe samjha sakta jo sirf apni baat bar zidd kar ke beth jaien. haan koi face to face baat karna aur samjhna chahta hai to most welcome he can contact me at my cell or can tell me whether I have to come and set a meeting point where I can briefly explain and proof the whole process. That's it .

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

if he says what he says then I have a question, how does he determine the POST cat o2 sensor is trying to adjust the trim the fuel, Its only job is to monitor the cat performance - it has no effect on trim. Its error when logged can only signal the ECU to not let the engine go to full potential as the cat might melt down and cause the vehicle to stall out.

In the toyota crown he says that the AFR sensor was showing stable voltage of 0.5V - but he did not share what was the fuel trim at that - if his wideband showed 11.4:1 ratio - that means that his exhaust would literally be spewing black smoke on that direction injection engine and the engine oil would have been half replaced by petrol.

I had not writed in the previous post's about the AFR voltage stabling Read it again with your eye's fully open and then ask some thing The In the case of crown AFR was not showing any stable voltage of 0.5V I had not mentioned any thing about the Voltage or installation of EC1 device in the crown dont misunderstand it.

[VCheng]

in my experience we had setted the offset voltages of O2 in different ranges which changes periodicaly as the ECU makes the corrections but never go beyond the settled off set .
yes you are right about the repair's if done so properly the problem can be solved in the last week a case of Toyota Crown 2006 with 2gr-fe came at my work shop and upon diagnosis 2 of the injector's were clogged and other of them were delievering excessive fuel than specified the upstream sensor's of both bank's were faulty as well and the cat's were also choked out. first the injector's were cleaned at ultrasonic cleaning bay. only 20 % of the problem solved but still 80% to go. GOT it improved by general tune up by still 70% was remaining to touch. So quoted the customer about the new part's and the total cost of the injector's were only 35000/- each 35000*6= 210000/- for the fuel injector's and 40000/- for the both faulty AFR with labor the total bill was of 270000/- When I showed the part's to the customer he saw them and stare at me and said (mera damgh kharab hai janab ke mein 270000/- ka yeh saman loun 200000/- mein to is ka poora engine aata hai kabali.) I was watching him and was thinking about his foolishness he was asking at that time. Then he insisted to find some other solution to repair his car I had no more option's rather without the installation of EC1 so that man doesn't spent his money on major repair but searches for the cheapest way to fix it. As you know no emission test's are carried out in Pakistan now a day's the people finds alternative path's to fix their vehicle's

I had not writed in the previous post's about the AFR voltage stabling Read it again with your eye's fully open and then ask some thing The In the case of crown AFR was not showing any stable voltage of 0.5V I had not mentioned any thing about the Voltage or installation of EC1 device in the crown dont misunderstand it.

Quoted for the record.

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

It should be painfully clear to you by now that this individual has no idea which end of the horse he is looking at, spewing gobbledygook to hide his utter ignorance of all matters technical related to this discussion. This may again be harsh but the truth nonetheless.

To discuss the technical topic call me at my cell phone I dont had the time to write and discuss the matter by writing the whole stuff.
0311-5135516

[VCheng]

To discuss the technical topic call me at my cell phone I dont had the time to write and discuss the matter by writing the whole stuff.
0311-5135516

No thanks. Let us discuss it here so that everybody benefits from the "wisdom".

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

I think you are a bit over yourself here. I can asset with surety that I had access to Toyota Crown/Corona/Cresta/Corolla/Hiace/Hilux/Land Cruiser/Coaster parts like a kid in a candy store - I could get used parts of "model specific code" delivered to my place of business from outside of Pakistan with no problems in very short time. I could get a plethora of other brand car parts too, all tested and working.

Anyway thats not the discussion.

What we are looking at here is that you said a gray market car came in with severe driveability problems. The toyota dealership gave it full marks and A OK (very odd or the dealership should actually close their doors) - then you say that the owner did not want to spend any reasonable amount of money to repair his "luxury" car because according to him the total cost of repairs are OVER the cost of USED ENGINE - you also report that the injectors were bad, the Fuel pump control module was bypassed etc.etc.

Such customer should never ever be entertained in any respectable workshop.

Then you say that the car was tuned to perfection by an add on box that fooled the ECU and somehow the "clogged" fuel injectors started to work and the engine started to work properly - that too a direct injection one - its a remarkable feat no doubt but I have my concerns too - I have worked on some engine control systems ranging from these passenger cars like toyota crowns to heavy machinery that costs multiple of millions in USD. machines big enough that they take 800 litres engine oil. Uptil today I have not seen any driver unit capable of reworking a clogged injector to the extent of the engine running good after a complete failure run. You also mention that you go to 16:1 AFR and still face no knock on regular pump petrol used in Pakistan. high AFR on high CR engine in a simple wet manifold otto cycle gasoline engine is bad - its till the range of misfire - in a direct injection I know it can do that on overrun or cruise as the fuel spray can absorb the heat from the charge air - but still it has to go back to 14:1 to keep NOx down and to keep knock at bay.

The last bit is what is very strange - thats the major question here. I posted about LTFT to which you have not replied correctly, any correct working ECU will work the engine to be at 0.0 STFT and a range of +/-5% LTFT is considered acceptable - it keeps the duty cycle of the injectors in mid.

Its pretty nice what you have - if you say it works, but instead of using customer's cars why not make a test rig (you should have a lot of engines lying around if you are the sole supplier of Toy Crown parts) then do control and run tests like any proper lab would do.

you didn't read the post carefully your are so hyper so you mixes both separated topic with each other I had not mentioned any of the box installation in that faulty CROWN read it again with your eye's open.

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

No thanks. Let us discuss it here so that everybody benefits from the "wisdom".

You call it a scam then why do you want it to discussed more YOU CAN DO NOTHING BUT CRITICIZING ANOTHER, AND ALSO YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING BETTER BY YOURSELF.

[VCheng]

You call it a scam then why do you want it to discussed more YOU CAN DO NOTHING BUT CRITICIZING ANOTHER, AND ALSO YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING BETTER BY YOURSELF.

This thread is in this forum for a reason.

I am not the one claiming to have made a magical device that can help OBD2 controlled engines function properly without repairing the faulty sensors, you are, and therefore YOU have the burden of proof, not me.

Let us start by seeing a photo of the innards of the black box.

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

Quoted for the record.

hahhaaaaaa read it carefully I had stated that I HAD NO OPTION RATHER TO INSTALL EC1 IN IT so that man doesn't spent his money on major repair but searches for the cheapest way to fix it. because the injector's were not clogged but overflowing due to debrie in it.

[VCheng]

hahhaaaaaa read it carefully I had stated that I HAD NO OPTION RATHER TO INSTALL EC1 IN IT so that man doesn't spent his money on major repair but searches for the cheapest way to fix it. because the injector's were not clogged but overflowing due to debrie in it.

It is obvious that in addition to engineering, you lack proper skills in English.

BTW, where is the picture of what is inside your magic EC1 Box?

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

this thread is in this forum for a reason.

i am not the one claiming to have made a magical device that can help obd2 controlled engines function properly without repairing the faulty sensors, you are, and therefore you have the burden of proof, not me.

Let us start by seeing a photo of the innards of the black box.

first off all stop calling it the magical device ok now i get it you guy's want to know about it and how it work's and the possible fact's of controlling the obd2 ok. You guy's want some technical info how this device work's and what are the key fundamental's which it controll's without turning on the cel .

[VCheng]

first off all stop calling it the magical device ok now i get it you guy's want to know about it and how it work's and the possible fact's of controlling the obd2 ok. You guy's want some technical info how this device work's and what are the key fundamental's which it controll's without turning on the cel .

Because what you claim is impossible, that is why your claims of it working must be due to magic, not science.

May be you graduated from the world famous Agha Waqar University of Magical Engineering?

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

because what you claim is impossible, that is why your claims of it working must be due to magic, not science.

May be you graduated from the world famous agha waqar university of magical engineering?

no no i had not graduated from your's father's university. Respect some one so other can respect you. You educated jahil

[VCheng]

no no i had not graduated from your's father's university. Respect some one so other can respect you. You educated jahil

So please tell us a little bit about your educational background that enabled you to create the "Engineering ChooMantar One" EC1 device?

[UltimateEconomyGroup]

So please tell us a little bit about your educational background that enabled you to create the "Engineering ChooMantar One" EC1 device?

I am a middle pass man from a goverment school and working as a mechanic since 2008

[StrikerX]

[VCheng]

I am a middle pass man from a goverment school and working as a mechanic since 2008

So did you design and implement the circuitry and its logic by empirical trials or did you have extra help in design and implementation?

What does the EC1 have inside it?