Time has come to Educate Pakistanis about using only Dry/Maintenance free Batteries

[gferoz]

+1.

I used in my Japanese Civic from 1992, lasted several years if i remember correct there was no need to change upto 5 years.
Back then Made in Japan Batteries were available, and were superb quality.
Now only (comparatively) low low low quality batteries are in the market, and the best ones say are Korean (Hankook, etc.) but it is not certain if they are refurbished in Pakistan because the best I am now achieving is 2.5 to 3 years battery life.
Of course your driving habbits and care for the battery do play a part, but finally I know it is Poor Quality chemical and Poor Quality conductor being used in the batteries sold in Pakistan.

Most buyers (95% +++) like to buy cheap products in terms of low price, that is why really good longlasting brands are not interested in promoting in Pakistan now. Many have had such bad experiences and losses when they did try to sell here that they wound up the business and left our market.

We are penny wise and pound foolish, largely. If anyone disagree, I challenge them to try the High-Performance Longlife solutions I am using for past 20 years and prove me wrong !

[anwarior]

+1.

I used in my Japanese Civic from 1992, lasted several years if i remember correct there was no need to change upto 5 years.
Back then Made in Japan Batteries were available, and were superb quality.
Now only (comparatively) low low low quality batteries are in the market, and the best ones say are Korean (Hankook, etc.) but it is not certain if they are refurbished in Pakistan because the best I am now achieving is 2.5 to 3 years battery life.
Of course your driving habbits and care for the battery do play a part, but finally I know it is Poor Quality chemical and Poor Quality conductor being used in the batteries sold in Pakistan.

Most buyers (95% +++) like to buy cheap products in terms of low price, that is why really good longlasting brands are not interested in promoting in Pakistan now. Many have had such bad experiences and losses when they did try to sell here that they wound up the business and left our market.

We are penny wise and pound foolish, largely. If anyone disagree, I challenge them to try the High-Performance Longlife solutions I am using for past 20 years and prove me wrong !

well this isn't the case always pakistanis are obsessed with cheap buyings coz you cant rely on the supplier that if he is selling the original product whose spice is being charged, I bought gear lever kit from suzuki's service centre they said k its geniune it dint last a week than I got it replaced from a local mechanic with 2nd hand kit its been 3 months its working fine, went to auto shop as jane cover was leaked, he showed me two qualities with 100% price diff I bought the expensive one the same got leaked on next oil change. so its not always buyer's fault that he buys cheap product its the seller who had made people think this way

p.s it took me 10min to type this on cell phone Plz avoid spell mistakes :-p

[juadjee]

@Poster: First of all, stop addressing Pakistanis as if you aren't one. If you really want an objective discussion going on you should cite references for your and ask people about their experiences. Not enforce a point of view.

I live in Karachi, and for proper maintenance of my batteries I went to buy Sulphuric Acid (so I can prepare the mixture myself). Nobody was willing to sell it, you only get acid if you have contacts with lab supply places.

On the point that we don't like spending on care of our automobiles and want a cheap solution, I wouldn't completely agree to that. We as a nation buy automobiles at a high premium. Cars in Europe, US, Far east AND India are much cheaper than they are in Pakistan. It has more to do with conventional thought, but we do see progress, slowly but surely. For instance: A few years ago, Automatic Transmission cars were not welcome by Pakistani drivers. But now you see people preferring them over Manual variants.

[ahsan1702]

There is a problem with your theory on 'burden on economy' and the 'acid abuse'

Acid batteries are manufactured IN PAKISTAN. They provide labor to people. There are companies like Exide and AGS who are giving employment to a lot of people. They CONTRIBUTE to the economy, its the exact opposite of what you are saying. The raw material may very well be imported or sourced from local industry ... but the fact that the manufacture itself provides job cannot be ignored.

Dry Batteries however, are IMPORTED. I need not tell you the problems with us importing more and exporting less, resulting in foreign exchange reserve deficit.

As for acid abuse ... puhlease ... you think this is a source of the acid ? ... lol ... you can get 'taizaab' for your home use from shops. Thats what is usually used in abuse cases.

Dry batteries are good, they are the future ... I always buy them when I can afford them. I wish local manufactures would move to it.

[warewolf1]

@Poster: First of all, stop addressing Pakistanis as if you aren't one. If you really want an objective discussion going on you should cite references for your and ask people about their experiences. Not enforce a point of view.

I live in Karachi, and for proper maintenance of my batteries I went to buy Sulphuric Acid (so I can prepare the mixture myself). Nobody was willing to sell it, you only get acid if you have contacts with lab supply places.

On the point that we don't like spending on care of our automobiles and want a cheap solution, I wouldn't completely agree to that. We as a nation buy automobiles at a high premium. Cars in Europe, US, Far east AND India are much cheaper than they are in Pakistan. It has more to do with conventional thought, but we do see progress, slowly but surely. For instance: A few years ago, Automatic Transmission cars were not welcome by Pakistani drivers. But now you see people preferring them over Manual variants.

+1

[askhokhar]

I think all the brothers here will agree that in the absence of consumer protection organizations in Pakistan, the customers will continue to suffer at the hands of manufacturers, importers, etc.

Some years ago, I had problems with the cable operator in my area. I searched on the net and found a consumer protection organization (NGO) working in G-9, Islamabad. They responded to my letter and served the cable operator with a legal notice. It just took a couple of days to see my issue resolved ...

[gferoz]

well this isn't the case always pakistanis are obsessed with cheap buyings coz you cant rely on the supplier that if he is selling the original product whose spice is being charged, I bought gear lever kit from suzuki's service centre they said k its geniune it dint last a week than I got it replaced from a local mechanic with 2nd hand kit its been 3 months its working fine, went to auto shop as jane cover was leaked, he showed me two qualities with 100% price diff I bought the expensive one the same got leaked on next oil change. so its not always buyer's fault that he buys cheap product its the seller who had made people think this way

p.s it took me 10min to type this on cell phone Plz avoid spell mistakes :-p

yes agreed that there's progress & not all of us like to buy cheap products. but the larger majority wants Best quality at Lowest price, expecting that price should be for the low quality product and seller should give us the Highest quality item !
I have direct experience with this during past 20 years.
Only 5% of the customers ever care to buy the hig quality truly, because that is the price they are willing to pay.
So all i'm saying is that what we as a collective customers demand, we will end up finding in out markets.
Specific example already i gave re: batteries lasting many years are not widely and easily available in our cities, and we end up paying more price for crappy quality because we do not encourage provision of the high quality through our collective buying behaviour !

(and yes, the importers etc are forced to import low quality otherwise they will be out of business very soon... most who tried to sell high quality were forced to sell their stocks after years of hardwork promoting the real good actually cost-savng stuff, but the customers preferred the "buy again and again" ttype of products. so these High quality products' sellers are highly discouraged.)

[Xulfiqar]

firstly - the batteries you are mentioning as dry batteries are not dry - they are surely loaded with a water/acid electrolyte - the only difference is that the cell plates have calcium in them to strengthen them as compared to antimony - as I have posted in other threads this battery needs a voltage cut -off of about 14.5 to 15.0 volts - which your cars alternator does not have, The usual lead antimony battery needs a cut off of 13.5 to 14.0 volts. If our good battery vendors use pure electrolyte - we will surely see greatly increased battery life.

The countries you mention sell batteries complete and ready to install off the shelf, the supplier/distributor puts in the acid electrolyte which is made with the materials that pass some quality tests, distilled water and pure acid. those batteries are no differerent than the ones being sold in Pakistan - its just the materials they use to put them in service are controlled.

If Pakistan followed this practice - there would be less problems of domestic violence and acid accidents as the electrolyte would not be easily available.

Please refer to my other posts - you will see that I have used our desi Exide and AGS batteries to start heavy engines and those batteries have not lost performance in about 4 years now, those eagerly start Mercedes Benz diesels in cold with no performance drop and work like a charm in suzuki cars - Fleet thingie as in my signature

[fouadbakht]

Maintenance free batteries can only be successfully marketed in Pakistan when the Govt and manufacturers both start producing and enforcing them. It will then be compulsory to buy when no acid battery is available.

[askhokhar]

I visited Metro Cash & Carry, Islamabad today ... The best brand available was AC Delco with amperage of 70

In local brands Volta Maintenance Free batteries were available upto 60 amps.

Several models of Aurora (Chinese brand) batteries were also available in different sizes, but probably they were all meant for UPS use.

[gferoz]

firstly - the batteries you are mentioning as dry batteries are not dry - they are surely loaded with a water/acid electrolyte - the only difference is that the cell plates have calcium in them to strengthen them as compared to antimony - as I have posted in other threads this battery needs a voltage cut -off of about 14.5 to 15.0 volts - which your cars alternator does not have, The usual lead antimony battery needs a cut off of 13.5 to 14.0 volts. If our good battery vendors use pure electrolyte - we will surely see greatly increased battery life.

The countries you mention sell batteries complete and ready to install off the shelf, the supplier/distributor puts in the acid electrolyte which is made with the materials that pass some quality tests, distilled water and pure acid. those batteries are no differerent than the ones being sold in Pakistan - its just the materials they use to put them in service are controlled.

If Pakistan followed this practice - there would be less problems of domestic violence and acid accidents as the electrolyte would not be easily available.

Please refer to my other posts - you will see that I have used our desi Exide and AGS batteries to start heavy engines and those batteries have not lost performance in about 4 years now, those eagerly start Mercedes Benz diesels in cold with no performance drop and work like a charm in suzuki cars - Fleet thingie as in my signature

+1. and certainly they will cost more too, but how much higher will be determined by if we have an honest govt enforcement.
pure dry batteries are not for the heavy duty function such as use in cars trucks etc., because they are quite more expensive and not to be exposed to outside environment and heat/cold conditions.

[Xulfiqar]

+1. and certainly they will cost more too, but how much higher will be determined by if we have an honest govt enforcement.
pure dry batteries are not for the heavy duty function such as use in cars trucks etc., because they are quite more expensive and not to be exposed to outside environment and heat/cold conditions.

Why does the government need to be in between? - its a supplier vendor situation, the suppliers would need special vehicles to transport such batteries and would also need a trickle charging system to keep them charged until sold.

Its just cheap mentality of the battery producer not to do it, If I were part of that company I would try my level best to enforce it - as it would greatly increase the product confidence of buyers.

to add to it, I know of a battery vendor who sells by the hundred every day, (I came to know of him when I won a battery supply tender) anyways - he told me that its these little shops that stop companies like Atlas etc not to supply prepped batteries as their sales would drop, One delivered battery would not be required for replacement in more than 5 years - while today its more like 2 years - less sales = less revenue.

The tender mentioned above I won set my little workshop and company in high regards - as the batteries I supplied performed beautifully.

[askhokhar]

Brother I endorse what you have said. Government does not have to be a party in everything. In fact, this is private business and it should be the priority of a manufacturer to provide quality goods to the consumers.

It was not long ago that batteries used to last for 4-5 years, now the maximum life has been reduced to one year. This is pathetic. Just in order to attract more revenue, the battery manufacturer produces pathetic quality products. There is a reason why the consumers have lost faith in our domestic good. I guess a limit comes when "Be Pakistani, Buy Pakistani" does not hold water.

Why does the government need to be in between? - its a supplier vendor situation, the suppliers would need special vehicles to transport such batteries and would also need a trickle charging system to keep them charged until sold.

Its just cheap mentality of the battery producer not to do it, If I were part of that company I would try my level best to enforce it - as it would greatly increase the product confidence of buyers.

to add to it, I know of a battery vendor who sells by the hundred every day, (I came to know of him when I won a battery supply tender) anyways - he told me that its these little shops that stop companies like Atlas etc not to supply prepped batteries as their sales would drop, One delivered battery would not be required for replacement in more than 5 years - while today its more like 2 years - less sales = less revenue.

The tender mentioned above I won set my little workshop and company in high regards - as the batteries I supplied performed beautifully.

[Xulfiqar]

I have got solid experience even with todays batteries being supplied - it all ends at the quality of the electrolyte you put in it.

In the past batteries were produced with a little more quality to take up the tap water and acid electrolyte and being a commercial entity it does make sense to cut back on costs - happens everywhere in the world. In this light NOW the life of batteries is more dictated by the quality of electrolyte as the internals are not overdone as were in the past.

If I gave you an imported into Pakistan Yuasa or Panasonic battery with no electrolyte in it and you put it tap water and acid - it will also have a life of about 1 year. But if you bought it complete ready prefilled - it will work for about 4 - WHY - the electrolyte you put in it.

[ansarali39]

dear brownrose78<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2716285", true); </SCRIPT>
what about cost if itis fesibale no need to educate people, they buy it, use of acid in batery is nothing in comaoprasion with industry

[umarpal7]

these dry batteries are expensive man!

[gferoz]

Originally Posted by gferoz
+1. and certainly they will cost more too, but how much higher will be determined by if we have an honest govt enforcement.
pure dry batteries are not for the heavy duty function such as use in cars trucks etc., because they are quite more expensive and not to be exposed to outside environment and heat/cold conditions.

Why does the government need to be in between? - its a supplier vendor situation, the suppliers would need special vehicles to transport such batteries and would also need a trickle charging system to keep them charged until sold.

Its just cheap mentality of the battery producer not to do it, If I were part of that company I would try my level best to enforce it - as it would greatly increase the product confidence of buyers.

to add to it, I know of a battery vendor who sells by the hundred every day, (I came to know of him when I won a battery supply tender) anyways - he told me that its these little shops that stop companies like Atlas etc not to supply prepped batteries as their sales would drop, One delivered battery would not be required for replacement in more than 5 years - while today its more like 2 years - less sales = less revenue.

The tender mentioned above I won set my little workshop and company in high regards - as the batteries I supplied performed beautifully.

+1.
I think u misunderstood my original post... i meant that govt needs to stop interfering. simialr to the example given above re"used cars imports, it is like setting minumum standards. otherwise the low quality electrolyte would not be allowed and customers will be made aware ethically.
but u are right that the sales of the shops and low quality service providers will be eliminated, so they are playing an unethical part in creating more pollution and less efficiency in our economy.

[juadjee]

Well said Xulfiqar - for all those who want to learn more about battery maintenance, there is a very comprehensive thread by talhawaleed called Maintaining UPS and Car Batteries. I prepared electrolyte myself with the help of that thread and got an old (declared dead by UPS diagnostician) battery working again. And I use the same electrolyte in my cars and maintain the specific gravity to ensure the battery performs optimally, its not that hard. If the shopkeepers don't take care of the electrolyte, we should do it ourselves. It's very easy to do and well explained in that thread.

[askhokhar]

Bhai could you post the link to that thread? It is not easy to search for particular thread on PW ...

Thanks

Well said Xulfiqar - for all those who want to learn more about battery maintenance, there is a very comprehensive thread by talhawaleed called Maintaining UPS and Car Batteries. I prepared electrolyte myself with the help of that thread and got an old (declared dead by UPS diagnostician) battery working again. And I use the same electrolyte in my cars and maintain the specific gravity to ensure the battery performs optimally, its not that hard. If the shopkeepers don't take care of the electrolyte, we should do it ourselves. It's very easy to do and well explained in that thread.

[juadjee]

It's not difficult to search brother. I tried copy pasting the term 'Maintaining UPS and Car Batteries' and found it right away. Here's the link anyway:

https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/electrical-wiring-battery-lights/153379-maintaining-ups-car-batteries