Toyota Grande CVT Gear Problem

[khuram2703]

I have tested 4 Passos 2012 to 2016 same Model KGC 30 series 1KRFE with CVT..... only one with less than 25k kms having no shudder at all.
Rest including mine were 33k kms - 70k kms..... mine was having lesser than other remaining two cars may be coz of lower mileage than other two....

But yes i agree its a kind of unpleasant feel....

I agree with @Xulfiqar " Welcome to the world of CVTs".

Let me check 2 Grandes in office and will share the feed back.

[Xulfiqar]

If that was the case then his transmission would be dead by now.

No it wont - it will die a sudden death only if 100% of the oil is replaced with glycol/water mix.

If there is a 5% mix of water in the oil - it will be a very low contamination but it changes the "stick slip" properties of the transmission oil and cause that buzz/grabbing.

[haseeb.basharat]

Issue came up after an oil change. I don't think there would be any mixing of coolant.

[haseeb.basharat]

The shudder is there which is quite minor. It only comes up at speed of 40-60 on a feather like foot on pedal.

[capsat]

habitual coasting drivers' will always have complaints of vehicle ride being faulty no matter they drive a Buggati or a PKDM ALTO

coasting means they have more time to focus and find a fault to complaint what a regular driver will never notice

[pwuser151804282637]

Appreciate If you also want to help other (Taking your time and write on forum).
Most of the times the forum seems to be Unhelpful and waste of time : the main Objective to write here is to let others save thier time effort money which has been spent by me due to no info on forum on this matter.

There is some miss understating here , Pls Go thru my messages : Here is what i write after VB service :

What makes me think that Torque convertor can be fine is that After VB service there.s alot of improvement in Engagement jerk. 8 out of 10 times there is now no jerk when the lockup on off Happens (i Wrote this observation during Drives with AC on)

[AFTER SERVICE CAR JERKS ARE BETTER THEN BEFORE BUT WITH AC ON IT IS PERFORMING 80% AS 0 METER CAR]

YES , I MISSED THOSE PRE CAUTIONS YOU WROTE ABOVE.
BUT CAR IS PERFORMING BETTER, Temperature Also Good.

[LATEST INFO ON JERK - 101% CONFIRMED THIS CONDITION]

AC on : TCC Unlocks at minimum 40 speed. ( can be felt )
(Whenever i Took my foot off at 40 speed the car Unlocks - Rpm rises - until i coast again for few seconds - The Car locks - Rpm drop Until I again lift my Foot off) This is how it should Perform. No jerks No Shudder Till 40kmh. Life is Good , Car is smooth as butter.

Ac Off : TCC unlocks at min 15 speed. ( can be felt )
(Whenever i took my foot off at 40 30 during traffic drive - The car dont unlock - If i place foot on pedal - this is when the shudder Happens - now if i again Put my foot on pedal - This time the car will jerk)

Next step : I am thinking to replace parts step by step
1 - Valve body
2 - TC (if problem not solved)

Any conclusions from above points? if No then Ignore it.
Since its your profession Pls do following publicly :
Please Write costs of VB (New,refurb,used) And pros and cons For selecting one over other.

New - refers to Genuine box packed
Refurb - Chinese Refurbished
Used - Kabuli or Bilal gunj

[haseeb.basharat]

Man its normal. I don't know why this has been dragged so much here. My car is 107k kms driven at this moment. 7k in last month only. Cvt oil changed at every 35k kms. I don't know whats wrong here. Who drives at 40km/h all day here?
In my daily driving 40km/h coasting is very occasional. Maybe for like few seconds, but I never focused on a shudder or something. If you press pedal a little more it won't shudders at all. It only shudders on light pedal.
A perfectly smooth and advanced cvt has been banished badly on this thread.

[rajaatta]

Hmm in vitz section 2 or 3 years back I had wrote a whole thread about k410 cvt valve body servicing. And many of the persons has already benefited from It. Writing the whole story again is not possible you should do some homework on it again.

Many friends and fellows back then has lost their transmissions due to improper access of how to service them many from Lahore. And in end they had to replace their transmissions.
The thing is in automotive industry their are many DIY jobs which owners can perform but CVT is a delicate matter so you always need a professional approach on it.
I had many respectable members from lahore who often visit me for a Diagnostics and a nice cup of tea who in history has messed up pretty badly with their vehicles.
Now comes toward the situation you are facing.
I think you had already spended a lot on this transmission
Because of unprofessional approach that it's a simple job. I think Google + YouTube has created a lot of failures due to improper confidences boost which results in damages.

Back a few months ago what was the estimations of servicing the VB assy ?
I think max 11k or so it was covered with warranty of transmission failure.
Back then you were importing a VB assy from China on cheap costs which I denied that it's the main brain and brand new one doesn't costs that much like 13-15 K I think .

Last time before service there was a jerk on TC lockup but after service now the shrudder is also jumped in it. That's the starting of initial Forward drum failure due to dried up running due to time lag during oil pump up in a dry VB assy.

So brother it's not about profession it's about how we can help each other but some fellows wants to do all things on their on un dr a professional supervision and believe me even Xulfiqar is not that free to supervise that VB service job and tell you every little bit of how to do it.

He has already contributed in previous threads and you just have to dig them there.

Now I again will ask you to get it diagnosed from a professional and get what's going on in it. Dont be filled by techstream only.
I repeat dont get fooled by techstream parameters. You had just inspected one of the available feature of TS out of 100s.
Differentiate between shrudder and jerk and slippage because jerk is a thing which will vanish but shrudder and slippage won't.
If you have access to brand new VB assy it would help you but I dont think original one will be cheap last time I ordered one from Aisin costs me around 900$ plus shipment it was demand of my client to rebuild his k310 cvt from scratch with brand new parts.

Thank you I hope you had understood this

[pwuser151804282637]

MY Dear brother - You have awarded it as Perfect transmission - Thats good to hear But whats More Great is that the even Toyota is not sure about what's going on inside it. 3 recalls - Time by time For thousands of vehicles - some of which even 2019 brand new cars (even mentioning shudder jerks in thier recalls)

But wait OMG thats a PERFECT TRANSMISSION why are we discussing these recalls.

[pwuser151804282637]

Thanks for your detailed reply , Understand all ans agree with you.

About your vitz service , Yes i have go thru it and every other Article on this forum with CVT before i started this thread.

Yes I agree with you , VB service is not a DIY , I regret my Choice but at the same time i am glad that i haven't messed the transmission Till yet since day first After service.

Yes i Still can get That REFURBISHED VB Assy Under a chinese Brand Warranty in 15K - But you wrote me That Installing a Refurb VB on k313 Can cause Variator to SLIP

That is when i didnt think about it.
For VB i am Not going to spend 60K 70K 80k Whatsoever Bcz can get used Comp Unit with warranty in this price.

Now there is miss understating again :-
As you wrote there was jerk before service Now is shudder (Its complete incorrect)
I have used shudder and jerk Words before too (My mistake i cant actually describe or diff bw shudder or jerk)
In short :- Like i have Wrote in last message.

The Jerk (or Shudder) Is 101% SAME AS BEFORE VB SERVICE - THERE IS NOTHING NEW PROBLEM - ALL IS SAME AS BEFORE - INFACT IT IS BETTER THEN BEFORE.
PLS TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS - THINGS ARE BETTER THEN BEFORE - TCC ON OFF IS NOW FELT BETTER SOMETIMES AS GOOD AS NEW CAR.

There is No slip since day 1 - even After Service No slips.
About slip i understand it - There is NO SLIP.

Appreciate your and Zulfqar bhai Contribution to Thread.

I Am Planing to Visit you In coming days Inshallah.
Do you have any working VB for k313 in stock?

[Xulfiqar]

I feel sorry to burst your bubble, but I have torn down way too many CVTs. They are very cartoonishly simple gearboxes, and they have an equally stupid design on the variator sheave movement pieces, They have balls in grooves, Nissan/Jatco use 3 per pulley while toyota have 4

both are equally bad as the entire drivetrain load is on those 6 or 8 balls, Which is crazy (in my opnion only)

Now the TCC, in CVT the TCC it under constant modulation and only applies to 99% lockup at close to 100 km/h on gentle cruise, it immediately starts to slip if you press the throttle. Its best seen with a scope as TechStream without a fast cable is pretty slow.

The TCC even hits when you apply the footbrake - this is why people love the brakes on CVT cars. In my experience of this TCC drone, The TCC will eventually completely lock up and prevent any normal drive. At that time its best to overhaul the transmission as these are trash anyway,

[TypeA]

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[khuram2703]

Exactly and that was not before till 28k kms in my case, On the contrary the Civic Xs even 60k kms plus are butter smooth....

[khuram2703]

Now here comes something interesting..... Sir! Compare it with Hondas current CVTs too as i have driven even 80k kms driven 1.8 10th Gens and they are butter smooth as conpared to Corollas

[TypeA]

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[khuram2703]

For Passo i planned to replace it at 40k kms but this Dam shudder made me replace it at 30k kms. The drained oil was visually identical in color as compared to new.... I feel it can be stretched till 50k kms.

[Xulfiqar]

But honda dont use a torque converter at all. The start clutch is in the transmission.

[khuram2703]

As per latest info the starting clutch is obsolete in Honda's CVTs. It was a big failure in Honda City 2005 to 2008 models along with Honda Jazz and Fit of that era.... Here the exisiting 10th Gen is with TCC if i am not wrong.

[Xulfiqar]

Yes it has the pancake torque converter.

[haseeb.basharat]

I cannot change complete 7.2L oil. I only change 2.2L oil once after opening nut and leveler tube. Total cvt oil cost in 107k kms is under 10,000rs. I mantain my car with mantainance cost of 1rs/km.

mayri gari mayri marzi

Somehow you're right.