Toyota Yaris XP150 2020 Dedicated Discussion, Owners / Fans Club Thread

[chinyoti]

Yes, exactly in such a scenario you stay off for a month, open for a day increase prices by upto 500,000 and shutdown the next day. Create so much uncertainty in the market.

[capsat]

CEO Toyota Pakistan ( Indus Motors ) Ali Suleman Habib Died last week. The close family relatives whispers that he was under severe stress since Aug 2019 due to currency disparity & govt policies. He was CEO of 7 companies directly linked to automotive sector under House of Habib. all such units were observing multiple silent days in a week means zero production since Aug 2019. 5 digit figure of employees were laid off.

Come COVID 19 crisis in 2020 the gravity of his stress multiplied, he decline to comply with suggestion from the board that he has to lay off another 5 digit figure.

Stress took him out within 3 days he left to be with the ALMIGHTY.

the rant is to establish 2020 will not be year of any progress for any automotive name in Pakistan. Show off class may pay premium for already assembled units

Potential customer be it via leasing or capital investment, the new car buyers' will be under 4 digit figure across Pakistan.

[danishmmh]

Had he focused on developing the business on nominal margins and not on the Oligopoly of the big three things could have been different.

Tell me what is stopping Toyota to bring in a small car 1000cc hatch or even a mira. they could have killed all the sale of alto with mira and cultus/picanto wagonr v2 swift with vitz. even after price premium (simply the Toyota Diahatsu bagde) would have made sales go more than they could manage.

But no they had to maintain the segment and the cartel. Feeding the policy makers to make sure that they are not challenged in the local market.

I for one have at least no sympathy for these Mafia People

[aoun556]

in India yaris base version is at 8.75 lacs which means around 18 .5 lacs in pakistan....i remember 2 3 years back toyota used to give advertisement about disadvantages of imported vehicles..the day govt announced ban on importing vehicles..these mafias took this as opportunity and increased prices of cars exactly with the dollar rise..govt is not taking any action because its not basic necessity and with every price increase govt tax part also grows..

[capsat]

Japanese Manufacturers never hurt interest of each other, anywhere on globe.
ever wonder why Coure as discontinued by Indus-Daihatsu ? Suzuki was getting serious dent on Cultus.

Nissan has failed miserably due to French & British Partner-Ownership with Japanese as share holders

Outside Japan - Pakistan is THE ONLY Country producing KEI class (660 cc engine) Suzuki identified the market segment when smuggled JDM KEI cars flooded the market. They negotiated with the MITI for very long to obtain licence for EXPORT off 660CC power train to be used in a 4 wheeled vehicle.

Toyota & Honda are still enjoying their competition with gap of only 3 digit difference of unit sale on & off. Never got bothered for any 1000 or under 1000 cc variant.

Yaris is introduced in Pakistan in 2020, only to establish that Corolla as flagship variant will soon vanish. Corolla is already Corolla AXIO in Japan. Like Cressida vanished replaced by Camry, Corolla will vanish to be replaced by AXIO .

Indus will freeze Corolla 1.3 & 1.6, only 1.8 Gasoline & 2.0 Diesel will be available, after shape change When ? That can only be determined at start of last quarter of 2020.

[fastian04]

I think all are same in Pakistan

[hussain182]

govt is not taking any action because its not basic necessity and with every price increase govt tax part also grows..

Government can earn much much more tax from imported vehicles.

[ali454]

With discontinuation of 1.3 Corolla I see prices in used car market going up. The love for Corolla will take atleast a decade to fade away.

Everybody wants a Corolla, with a 1.3 engine with next to no options people could afford it hence massive sales due to reliability.

Now with Corolla getting out of reach of many the demand for used Gli/Xli will increase.

[fastian04]

Any gli owner seeing ur post will increase demand happily

[aoun556]

Yes govt can earn revenue on importing cars..but in actual dollars go out first when u purchase imported car n send money abroad n then u pay taxes to govt..secondly it increases trade deficit thats y govt has banned importing vehicles...
We should raise voice against these mafias..last year Alto was launched at 12.5 lacs when dollar was at 150 ..without any significant price hike in dollar they increased prices upto 3.5 lacs..dollar is again at 159 but IMC will not reverse prices.

[hussain182]

actual dollars go out first when u purchase imported car n send money abroad n then u pay taxes to govt..secondly it increases trade deficit thats y govt has banned importing vehicles...

How do car assemblers pay for CKD kits? And what do they with their profits? Reinvest all of them?

[ali454]

Yes but sadly no buyers these days. Everybody saving revenues in these times of uncertainty.

[mgalaxy3]

Had he focused on developing the business on nominal margins and not on the Oligopoly of the big three things could have been different.

Easy for you to say that sitting on your privileged couch, while ignoring the realities of the PAK market.

PAK is a poor country with very low buying power, very low volume of sales, and gigantic taxes.

Not even 0.3% population of the country can afford to buy a new car! The annual sales are extremely low compared to any other decent car market.

Max around 140-160k sales on a good year. That is a very low volume. With a population of 200 million, this low number of sales indicate how poor the economy and buying power is.

Which means very very difficult business.

No sane company will want to sell here, because there is nothing much to be made in terms of profits.

99% people here will have to sell their kidneys and livers to just buy a 1,000cc Picanto of 2 million PKR. A new hatchback cannot be afforded by 99% of the population.

And you the privileged class of the remaining 0.5% think that business is easy and companies are "looting", when there is no market to loot even.

A car like Corolla or Civic, roughly 23-25000 $ USD which sells like a donkey cart in rest of the world is considered premium here.

Because not even 0.1% of the population can afford to buy a 4 million PKR car. That is only 23-25000$ internationally.

All you can do is attack others who are already struggling, because you think PAK is a rich country and people can afford to buy new cars, just because you hang around people who are in the exclusive 0.3% of the population.

[aoun556]

Not sure how car assemblers manage that and what they do with their profits...

[addulch]

Bro not only Toyota its the problem with all the other brand like Honda,Suzuki

[danishmmh]

Not sitting on my couch, had to go through a lot and have seen many a tough days, to say what i said today and Alhamdulillah I am blessed to have what i have.

Please see the stock sheet of Indus for the last 15 years then come back with your comments. They have been having phenomenal business gains after heavy handed clamp down of Imports. They make Corolla/Hilux/Fortuner (and make Profit) but suddenly investing in a small car that a slightly larger populace can afford does not make business sense.

I used the word mafia and that is what they are. You write 23 to 25k $ as if it is no money, open up your eyes. Yes US has a much larger consumer base but you dont see every tom dick and harry dishing out 25k $ to buy a new car. They are lucky that they get very decent cars in under 10K.

You seriously need to look at the business model here:

Your car for which you pay say 3million PKR is worth less than 2.3 million the other 700k is Tax. You have deposited 3 million to the mafia, they roll your money in stock, leasing, whatever they feel like for the duration that the car is not delivered. Mind you they have not even put up the inventory of the order. Just a Computer generated Number, TDD that is it.

Now after 3 months your car goes into production, another two weeks and your car is delivered, followed by two weeks to generate invoice.

good 4 months. In which the car cost plus profit plus dealer margin is 2.3million, 700k is tax.

so they have made good run of the money. after 04 months they will submit income tax sales tax and what not for that they have another month to pay the 700k advance taken from you 4 months back.

Now multiply this number by 2500 (no of corolla sold) if we are to do all similar priced cars on average then it is easily 5000+ per month. take a calculator and you will be amazed at the amount that comes to.

So please cut the crap of those who are in a state of self pity, if this mafia was not here we could all drive better cars.

Need an Example from Pakistan:

Year 2000, New Honda CD 70 was for 64k, New Mehran 250K, 1-USD = 56PKR
Year 2002/3 Hero 70 is launched at 38k on installment and soon followed by a flood of chinese and local assembled replicas.
Year 2012 New Honda CD-70 53k, Mehran 550k, dont remember USD.(somewhere around 90) China Bikes selling from 35 to 37k

What happened ?? car prices went UP motorcycle prices crashed, why? Import and competition. Can you imagine the ridiculous profiteering that was being done by Atlas when no competition was in sight.

these B@ST@RDS have maintained the status quo far too long and you want to tell me that they cannot invest as customer base is not here. They cannot invest because they invest in policy makers to ensure that they can enjoy the cartel and reap its benefits

[TypeA]

In Pakistan Taxation is more focused upon manufacturers & importers.
every manufacturer is taxed twice, every importer is taxed twice. Govt at their own whim and whine may allow or disallow the adjustment so the end user gets the impact of such multiple taxation.

ironically 90% manufacturing industry is based upon imported raw material so the chain Affect of taxation / currency fluctuation is impossible to avoid.

expect Yaris top variant to cross 3 million & Corolla 1.8 face lift 5 million mark before it can be seen on roads after Sept 2020

[ahsann]

Very true and rightly put !

[alphab]

Pls don't ride on emotions state the right fact, car companies take 1 million for the 3million example you wrote
remaining 2 million just before the last month.

Look at the taxes here in Pakistan every car assembler has to give 30% tax on ckd and 25% for locally manufactured part and 45% on imported part while in neighboring india its 10%.

On top of that low volume market which denies any economy of scale.

[danishmmh]

that one million does not lock the price of the car. You can do that and then be uncertain, Company reserves the right to change the price any time and price at the time of delivery will be applicable.

I was talking of that case. for the others they can stil pay the one million and the profit needed will be adjusted with the price increase.

Also in case of 01 month earlier they still have 1.5 month to play with the tax amount on submission of invoice.

Just an example:

How many you think booked Yaris on full payment?? very very safe number will be 500. now multiply that by 2.6 million. that is 1.3billion in the coffers of Indus and with COVID they can sit on that money and keep earnign profit while prospective owners can be worried about deliveries.

These B@ST@RDS have it all covered. Please tell me why the import number is still a significant chunk after such a clampdown by the government. Why cant these @55Holes provide the features and a proper hatch? they can take away the sales from these imports but no.

Suzuki brought in alto and that had been successful in replacing jdm 660cc sales, but alas Suzuki wanted to kill the goose that laid the golden egg and have it all in one go. Crazy price hikes cost sales and impact on profit.

So yes they need correct people who can realise that there is potential for margin in numbers.

they want too much profit that again moves buyer to the JDM route.

Taxes are all paid once item are invoiced. Import tax is paid upfront, still that is included in the price of the car, it is all margins covered. And advance payments. what else do you need.

Where in the world are you denied warranty for not using company provided OIL?? It is always the grade that determines the warranty.

These people blend the cheapest grade and price it above anything locally available and blackmail on warranty. Oh yeah ethics and these scums dont go hand in hand. So please spare the lecture.

This economy of sale was excellent in 2002 when the imports were non-existant and what were the sales number?? far lower than today. They were enjoying the monopoly. it is when this was challenged and people demanded more things started to change.

the option is still there, but they need to evaluate what they want to do increase price and losse sale close production or decrease the profit margin and work on volume.