Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan

[sami_voodoo]

Spectra

I'll be surprised if he gets 7.5 for a first gen 1.6. Then again, unavailability in Pakistan will drive prices up. That car with a 6 psi turbo kit should be fun.

Neuro

Sami sits in a corner whistling innocently

Re: Apex seals. I'm sure you've done the research, but if the cases are good i.e., not scratched, just changing the apex seals should be good. In any case, for a mild rebuild, bearing shells and apex seals are all that you need. The cases are coated with a very hard plating, some engine builder in their "infinite" wisdom have tried to hone them. Needless to say, the rebuilt engines hardly go through their initial running in before needing another rebuild...

Google is your friend:

Rebuilding Rotaries

[mohsinikram]

@sundeath I am sorry to make you feel like that........unintentionally. In my book, a silver shadow is not a classic or maybe a classic of a rather lower degree. It was not made for an enthusiast, neither does it represent the best from the Crewe. This is a very candid personal opinion and others have every right to differ. To me, a VW Beetle or a Morris Minor have more character and more desirability as they kind of changed the motoring scene and are icons in their own right. Silver Shadow is a borrowed design - i.e. based on Morris Oxford. Mechanicals are based on GM ( I think) so not exciting for me. Nissan President is not my scene.

[mohsinikram]

@sami_voodoo
thanks for the hint - or I should think so. Its a Bugatti

[alvis]

That Wraith looks like the ex British High Commission car. there were some pictures posted about a year back.

Mohsin, exactly my thoughts on the Silver Shadow. Waste of space I would say, have you seen the finish in the door hinges? any Russian car would have a better finish in that area.

Sami, looks like a toy car to me!! Honestly just no idea, was this the car Ettore did up for his son?

[mohsinikram]

Ettore's son Jean Bugatti designed various version of Type 57 including this beautiful Type 57 SC Atlantic

[sami_voodoo]

alvis

Search up Dr. Peter Williamson, Bugatti, and Type 19. And you'll have your answer. Quite intriguing as well. It proves that Rolls re-working Minis and Aston Martin re-working Toyota iQs isn't as daft as it seems...

Mohsin Sb.

It is. How much Bugatti though, that is open to question.

[sami_voodoo]

Mohsin, exactly my thoughts on the Silver Shadow. Waste of space I would say, have you seen the finish in the door hinges? any Russian car would have a better finish in that area.

So a tired Shadow with the mechanical running gear and electrics of an LS400 / Celsior should be good. A bit of luxury with world-class refinement and reliability. Although even thinking about this operation might get the owner / modifier burnt at the stake by RR fans. The DS mutilator has somehow escaped the wrath of goddess fans (notice my choice of words).

[sundeath]

Alvis,

That is bcz of the bad quality pics but i can assure you about the finishing of the interior quality.

Anyways, but the thing is, the name is RR and this brand can make anyone a proud owner of the stuff what anyone have.

Yes, the car is standing for a bit long at same place but every thing including mechanical and electrical is working perfectly.

[neurosurgeon]

sami-voodoo
will rebuild the old rotary as well. my first memory of a blown rotary is in a RX3 circa 1976 stranded in a workshop in 1978. The mechanics did not know what to make of it. Possibly just flooded... Rebuilds have to be done properly. I decided to get a newish engine get the car OTR and then get rebuild experience.

The poor Silver Shadow is taking some stick...the lahore one lhd1 presently in the lack of care of J monnoo does have an ls400 engine in it..... it does have some saving graces.... the swishy ride... the silent progress....and no matter what the base mechanicals one does arrive in a rolls or does it say i have arrived.

Better than the Jap Crap... Toyota Crown 1973 ex Lahore High Court anyone??? does that say I have arrived. Or are both for the Arrivistes....although I am all for modern jap motors...

There is a Rolls in Lahore A Silver Wraith with a Toyota 2C diesel engine in it. Ultimate insult I think.

[mohsinikram]

@neurosurgeon
one does arrive in RR, whatever model - true. You do make a statement that I have arrived and I am loaded. Thats why the famous Maali family in Lahore when got flooded with money, bought a few of them an painted them all kind of colors. This model generally doesnt fancy a classic car connoisseur. Its value shows its desiabilitty. The previous owner of this Silver Shadow has just bought one in London for GBP 2300 in excellent condition. On the other hand, at this price it becomes a very good car. Better than a jap crap anytime.

Though I must admit that the car doesn't deserve the negative attention that its getting from some of us - Me

@sundeath
I hope you take all these views in a positive way. There's a lot of learning for all of us. You had created a lot of suspense by announcing that you have made a roof hitting discovery and then disappearing. My expectation was one of the missing cars that were known to be in Pakistan- like an Alvis Roadster in Pindi, E-Type or XK 120 Jaguar, a Duesenberg in Lahore, RR Silver Ghost in Nowshera, a one owner MB Ponton Coupe in Lahore, a V16 Auto Union GP car, Aston Martin DB 2, a '57 Bel Air 2 dr hard top in Peshawer, Alfa Romeo 2600 Spider in Lahore, etc. etc. I was a bit disappointed when tthe car turned out to be Silver Shadow and that too the one which I have known for more than 20 years. I 'll share an interesting story about this Shadow in the next post.

[mohsinikram]

@sundeath A friend, I 'll call him 'RY' who was a classic car enthusiast living in LA was visiting Pakistan after 12 years.He wanted to catch up on the car scene so we went to the house of the previous owner of this RR who had quite a colection of cars, classic and modern both. RY looked around and checked out 3-4 classics very keenly but ignored the RR and some modern saloons and then sat down to have a chat. The owner of this RR insisted that he didnt check out the RR and urged him to come and see it. RY kind of excused and didnt get up. When RY left, the owner of this RR was furious and said that RY didnt check out the Rolls as he was jealous of his cars. I told him something similar to what I have explained above about its desirability but our friend did not get this feeling out of him that RY was jelous of him. Now let me tell you what RY owns in his home in LA and his house in Karachi combined and then tell me could he have been jealous or that the car didnt interest him? He owns: a 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE V12, an Aston Martin DB 5, a Mercedes 280 SE Convertible, 3 X Jaguar E-Types, 4 X Chevrolet Corvettes, '55 Cadillac Eldorado Bearittz Convertible, a 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible, a '50 MG TD,a '55 MG TF, 1500 CC appx. 1930's ACE bike, 4 cyll Indian Chief, Indian Chief Twin, Triumph Tiger 100 racer, '49 Harley Davidson Hydra Glide 1200CC, another '42 Indian Chief, a '40 Harley Davidson with sidecar, a '52 Triumph Thunderbird, a 41 Indian Scout......... I think I have made my point.

[sami_voodoo]

Neuro

Apparently, if you've really blown your rotary, it's cheaper to get a second hand engine, or at least get the cases from it.

For the RR, the reason I said that it should get a Toyota V8 in it was that it would be more in its character. Original parts will be expensive of course, but, if you haven't got the money, don't buy a Rolls in the first place. Changing to a diesel engine on the other hand is just daft. Of course if it were the 24 valve 6-inline out of the Land cruiser, it might be not so bad, but I digress.

And as for the definition of classics, well, we've been through this maze a bunch of times already. Different people have different views. All that I can say is that old age does not a classic car make. And nationality does not count either.

[alvis]

... There is a Rolls in Lahore A Silver Wraith with a Toyota 2C diesel engine in it. Ultimate insult I think.

neuro,

Ultimate insult to who? the 2 C or the funeral car?:-#

Sami,

And as for the definition of classics, well, we've been through this maze a bunch of times already. Different people have different views. All that I can say is that old age does not a classic car make.

And nationality does not count either.

Very well put, we have a lot of members here who think only the europeans are entitiled to the "classic" title. Well ask them if the Mazda Cosmos is a classic or not? Datsun 1600 ? 240 Z ?

To each his own.

[psyb0rg]

@mohsinikram, an Auto Union GP?? Was that a joke?

[mohsinikram]

@psyborg
I met a retired Army General who was from Bahawalpur and knew the Nawab's told me that the Nawab once went to Germany to see a Grand Prix and was so impressed with the car that won the race that he purchased a similar car. He said that it was a 16 cyllinder car and that he had seen it in the sixties.

I met a guy in India who's known as the father of the classic car movement in India, Mr. R.N. Seth He told me thathe used to live in Lahore before partition and there was a Duesenberg in a house close to where he lived.

Many such stories that I have heard from serious souls have come out to be true....

@alvis
Mazda Cosmos, Toyota 2000 GT, 240 Z etc. are classics y any definition.

I think sami' and your remarks were prompted by mine and neuro's use of the term 'japcrap'. This is just a generalised term that we love to use though we should stop doing it.

In our VCCCP show earlier this year, I had allowed cars such as a Datsun 120 Y, Toyota Mk II, Toyota Corolla 74, Mazda 1500 etc. to be displayed.

[mohsinikram]

Just met a guy who claims that he saw 2 bikes in Pindi, Lalazar area. The bikes were a 1955 HRD Vincent Black Shadow and a 1930' s Brough Superior. He claims to ave bought the HRD for 100,000/- and the bike will be in Karachi.

[alvis]

Mohsin

What makes the Auto Union story so unbelievable is that these cars were racing at the time when Germany and England were about to go to war.

I doubt that the Nawab would have ventured into Germany at such a crucial time. Even the Mercedes 540 K they had was never used during the war period rather it was locked away in the garages because the Nawab did not want the English masters to be upset!

Many cars of the time carried 8 cylinder engines with twin magnetos so 16 spark plugs in an engine bay was not an uncommon sight. The person or General could be confused!!

Nothing against the use of the word 'japcrap' the point I make is that the japs probably made less crap than the english who made tons of it like Morris Minors, Ford Anglia's, Morris Oxfords, Ford Zephyr, Triumph Mayflower etc etc... I could go on and on, but the point is " To each his own".

In my book a classic is a classic if you yourself think it is !!

[sami_voodoo]

Speaking of Japs, the last time I was in Pakistan, I saw a very nice red 1600 in Rawalpindi near Choorh (Peshawar Road). Anyone have any idea bout it? Romano? Spectra? Storm? Anyone? It was driven by a grey-haired middle-aged gentleman as far as I recall. Luckily I was at a stop light, so I could give it my undivided attention as it passed by in the opposite direction, unfortunately however, I was stuck, so I wasn't able to follow the gentleman and ask him about it... Any info is welcome!

A dark green 808 / RX-3? I saw it once about 8 years ago, but it wasn't a local car. It was showroom fresh and even while running, you couldn't hear the engine.

I've also seen a pink / beige / champagne 190E 2.3-16 (not a jap, I know) in Islamabad quite often. Any idea what came of that? It ended up with a diesel engine the last time I saw it though...

[wasifali89]

^^ u talking abt that ponton (NOWSHEHRA 1) ???????

[sundeath]

Mohsin Bhai,

I really respect your comments and you are my big brother.........Cheers.