Vintage & Classic Car Club of Pakistan

[Xulfiqar]

@neurosurgeonGet some of this producthttp://3mcollision.com/3m-rust-fighter-i-08891.htmlIts body cavity wax that is sprayed to insides of doors, sills, fenders, bonnet/trunk frames undercarriage parts, undercarriage chassis members and pillars, It provides a wax barrier for water to slide off and no start rusting. Alfa used to forget applying this in correct quantity like the germans did, But you can do a nicer job, you would need a long flexible nozzle attachment too. It would ensure the car is kept like it is for years to come.

[reezvaan]

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[reezvaan]

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[Xulfiqar]

its not the same, this wax product is actually 3M brand cosmoline or waxoyl, its parrafin wax based and is vehicle is light spirits - the wax gets deposited on the metal while the solvent flashes off. the undercoat is rubber based and is not suitable for door skin innards, sill panels, fenders (as in near the hinges) and the trapped sections that have round plug access holes - the holes are for this product to be dispensed in the cavities. The undercoating is applied topically to the underside after all rubber plugs etc are in place - this wax is applied to "cavities"

Your VW beetle doors would have this as dried yellow wax in the corners and it would also be heavily applied to the the area under the fuel tank. If 3M does not stock it then best gather resources and get it in bulk from outside Pakistan, or look for a dealer that sells cosmoline (military contractors may help) or waxoyl

There is a home made substitute but its stinky.

[Basharatu]

Jirgah in Ladha, there's a vintage buss in the background!

	[IMG]http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4145/5044014330_c25a9dc481_b.jpg[/IMG]

[neurosurgeon]

You got me started guys.
I have tried to get Waxoyl including the applicators from many suppliers... it is freely available in the West... from Halfords for example and also ebay etc. There is only one slight problem ... these are petroleum based inflammable products products that are not shipped by air and the transport is not allowed in personal baggage.... dont worry I have tried...

I know the head honcho of ICI in Pakistan well. He was in school with me. I have contacted ICI and they dont get these products here as Hammerite products don't have enough of a market they say and so it does not make commercial sense. One reason is that our denters and painters both in the Body repair industry and in the House construction and repair/ paint business are hidebound and dont change. Have you for example seen anyone use chemical rust removers and paint strippers..... they would much rather spend two weeks or two months doing it by hand............. basically stupid or aternatively insane... witness the insanity that is our politics....defition of insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

The rubberised spray is just underbody coat... bascally a bitumen/ rubber spray for the underbody and in the wheelarches to prevent stone chip damage. All my restored cars have it....................

I suggest you go to Hammerite Automotive - The Metal Care Specialists

[reezvaan]

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[Xulfiqar]

a chemical indenter dealing in flammables can get you this in a 210 litre drum, If you have enough contacts and resources that you can share this, it will be a great saver. I would also suggest to ask some high end ammunition dealers for genuine cosmoline (the vomit yellow one), Its the same product. Shahnawaz Ltd should also sell it as mercedes benz has a part no for it - which I dont recall over my head right now, The part no, is in all body refinish manuals of MB. They have it in 1 litre bottles and is cream colored, It requires a bath in hot water before being poured for spray.

[Xulfiqar]

Lets talk about the homemade substitute, shall we? Lets use the homemade substitute until its sorted out.

it requires some parrafin wax, very light mineral oil, or diesel/kerosene - you take the parrafin wax chunk and grate it to slivers - add the fuel to it, there is no quantification, just dissolve as much wax as the liquid can take. It would take a couple of weeks to dissolve and become a slurry, now add a little zero detergent mineral oil - API - SA, SB,SC to it so it becomes a liquid, Apply - you can use a spray system too and make yourself a plastic pipe with 180* spray nozzle to disperse the wax evenly.It will stink of it for about a week or two.

[Xulfiqar]

You got me started guys.I have tried to get Waxoyl including the applicators from many suppliers... it is freely available in the West... from Halfords for example and also ebay etc. There is only one slight problem ... these are petroleum based inflammable products products that are not shipped by air and the transport is not allowed in personal baggage.... dont worry I have tried... I know the head honcho of ICI in Pakistan well. He was in school with me. I have contacted ICI and they dont get these products here as Hammerite products don't have enough of a market they say and so it does not make commercial sense. One reason is that our denters and painters both in the Body repair industry and in the House construction and repair/ paint business are hidebound and dont change. Have you for example seen anyone use chemical rust removers and paint strippers..... they would much rather spend two weeks or two months doing it by hand............. basically stupid or aternatively insane... witness the insanity that is our politics....defition of insanity... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.The rubberised spray is just underbody coat... bascally a bitumen/ rubber spray for the underbody and in the wheelarches to prevent stone chip damage. All my restored cars have it....................I suggest you go to Hammerite Automotive - The Metal Care Specialists

Pakistan is a great example of "beating a dead horse" kind of situations - specially in skilled trades. I really fail to understand that if a mechanic/workshop is in the business then how come they never got around to make custom tools to get jobs done quicker. Most still dont have worktables and stool/chair to sit on - they prefer to work with parts on dirt floors. And somehow expect every other job to magically be superior to the prior one. How can one expect it - if there is no control practice to compare to.

[madhouse12]

the "skilled labor" here does not want to learn more of their trade. what they have learned from the "ustad" is all they care about. you tell them an innovative way of doing thing and they will make a million excuses not to do it. either they will tell you it cant be done or they will quote you an incredible price for it. i basically am more into car audio and we use some products in the doors to make them soundproof. one of them is "dynamat" which is expensive yet works really well.

basically to silence an area, covering around 25% of the area atleast is recommended. dynamat can be cut into small strips and can be applied directly to surface. it has a foil backing and it is a heat shield as well. it is however used inside the car and not meant for under body applications.

other similar products hushmat, peel and seal (much cheaper), raammat and the cheapest locally available solution, boiler gasket tape. again these are all for use inside the car. there are some other commercially available product from these manufacturers for under body use and wheel arches. will search em and let you guys know as i think they will be easier to source

[madhouse12]

Noise & Vibration Coatings : Spectrum

RustOleum.com

try these two products. they should be easier to import i think specially spectrum cos i think it is water based.

[ansarghani]

Reezwan Bhai any idea what's the price?

Ok Heard from 3M Pakistan. They dont have the above mentioned product available here but they have this in stock: 3M Rubberized Undercoating 08883 I wonder if its a perfect substitute of the product you mentioned? Any ideas @Xulfiqar?

Here are the descriptive details received from them, on the substitute product:

‎3M 08883, Underseal Rubberized Undercoating

1 lb 3.7 oz Net Wt, Aerosol

3M 08883 Underseal Rubberized Undercoating is a rapid drying, paintable, rubberized undercoating material for rust-proofing and sound deadening. Underseal Rubberized... Undercoating is ideal for coating fenders, quarter panels, door panels, repaired sections, welded joints, hoods, and decks. It sprays easier than most other products. Maintains proper spray pattern while applying and won't plug the spray nozzle.

[reezvaan]

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[Jboy]

Ahhhh only if...

[fouadhafeez]

Pakistan is a great example of "beating a dead horse" kind of situations - specially in skilled trades. I really fail to understand that if a mechanic/workshop is in the business then how come they never got around to make custom tools to get jobs done quicker. Most still dont have worktables and stool/chair to sit on - they prefer to work with parts on dirt floors. And somehow expect every other job to magically be superior to the prior one. How can one expect it - if there is no control practice to compare to.

A thought-provoking post, indeed.

However, I think demand fuels supply. And the needs of the client dictate the way the vendor/supplier/craftsman behaves. How many times have we visited some of the better-equipped workshops, and come away thinking: "maahol tau bara stylo hai. Overalls, aur naye tools, aur mineral water kee bottlein. Magar Billu/Pappu/Munna Ustad iss se kam kharch tau hoga hee (even if Billu/Pappu/Munna are eventually FAR more expensive). Aur wahan ki doodh-patti bhi zabardast hai. Yeh workshop apne safai suthrai aur high-tech solutions ke faaltu bill merey paison mein se nikaalti hogi".

Also, our collective psyche/mentality has a lot to do with it, too. Simply put...we settle. Make compromises. Accept flaws and faults and foibles as fait accompli. In all fields, not just automotive care and repair. Unfortunately, perhaps you can change the mentality of a few...but you can't do much about changing the psyche of many...so you learn to live with it. And become "one with the flow".

See?! That's another example of "settling", as soon as I mentioned it!

[hj2006]

Spotted this mustang on zahoor elahi road sometime back. I guess its owned by someone from service shoes.

[Xulfiqar]

A thought-provoking post, indeed.However, I think demand fuels supply. And the needs of the client dictate the way the vendor/supplier/craftsman behaves. How many times have we visited some of the better-equipped workshops, and come away thinking: "maahol tau bara stylo hai. Overalls, aur naye tools, aur mineral water kee bottlein. Magar Billu/Pappu/Munna Ustad iss se kam kharch tau hoga hee (even if Billu/Pappu/Munna are eventually FAR more expensive). Aur wahan ki doodh-patti bhi zabardast hai. Yeh workshop apne safai suthrai aur high-tech solutions ke faaltu bill merey paison mein se nikaalti hogi".Also, our collective psyche/mentality has a lot to do with it, too. Simply put...we settle. Make compromises. Accept flaws and faults and foibles as fait accompli. In all fields, not just automotive care and repair. Unfortunately, perhaps you can change the mentality of a few...but you can't do much about changing the psyche of many...so you learn to live with it. And become "one with the flow".See?! That's another example of "settling", as soon as I mentioned it!

Exactly - I faced similar customers a lot - some Daaktar sab also was reffered to me with his stupid lexus A/T - anyway, it was estimated for a certain amount to which he said his local cabin mechanic can fix for less and I should do it for the same..I said sure - you are a doctor, can I come to your private practice and pay you "civil hospital" fee? - He was not amused, I billed him diagnostics and refused to work on the problem - he had the problem diagnosis in his hand as a written and stamped document - he could get it fixed elsewhere for his favorite cabin mechanic amount.Until one actually gets down to actually measure craftsmanship it cannot be helped, this is the very reason why people go around buying "JDM orphan" cars and not look beyond the rosy glasses and vanity aspect. As a collective - I honestly think the situation cannot be helped ever in the next few centuries in Pakistan. We just dont have the scales to measure anything - BUT we try to emphasize that we do. - e.g. people were not very amused that their FWD car front wheel bearings could be changed in 3 hours and oil change etc done at the same time in my shop They would rather spend just a little less, spend a full day at mechanic and machine shop and also complain of "fail teknalojy" These same people think that all greases are just greases, they would say "chew**" bananey ka tareeqa ha exal grease, chachis grease, bearing grease, buxa (NLIG00) grease - grease grease hoti hai - yep jaisey oil oil hota hai - Habib ho ya Caltex.

[fouadhafeez]

..."chew**" bananey ka tareeqa ha exal grease, chachis grease, bearing grease, buxa (NLIG00) grease - grease grease hoti hai - yep jaisey oil oil hota hai - Habib ho ya Caltex.

...aur degree tau degree hotee hai. Asli ho, ya naqli.

I like your candour. You should tune a car or three of mine, one of these days.

[celicafan]

any fiat 124 available?