Vitz 2006 1.0 suddenly stops

[vitz_2006]

Today my vitz is acting strangely. It has suddenly stopped 2-3 times on the road with a long 'breath'. When I started it again each time ,it started with a quite longer ignition but at the first attempt.
I have recently changed its fuel filter at toyota walton 3s..so I went to them to get this checked.....but during drive test this problem did not appear again.According to them there is no indication for any fault and could be a bad fuel (which I doubt as it's run on 100% high octane that too from one of the best pumps in lahore).According to them if it were a fuel filter or fuel pump issue, then it would have occured very frequently.So they have asked me to wait and see if it happens again
Any ideas what it could be?

[arzaam.bhatti]

you run 100& hi octane? mind telling which pump in lahore as i myself cant find hi octane since few days here, you should never run on 100% hi octane in any car by the way as hi octane here is HOBC which is not a fuel, its supposed to be mixed with regular petrol, you dont need much of it in vitz.

try running 50/50 petrol, rest for mechanical issues soon senior members would guide you.

[car_bus2008]

Today my vitz is acting strangely. It has suddenly stopped 2-3 times on the road with a long 'breath'. When I started it again each time ,it started with a quite longer ignition but at the first attempt.
I have recently changed its fuel filter at toyota walton 3s..so I went to them to get this checked.....but during drive test this problem did not appear again.According to them there is no indication for any fault and could be a bad fuel (which I doubt as it's run on 100% high octane that too from one of the best pumps in lahore).According to them if it were a fuel filter or fuel pump issue, then it would have occured very frequently.So they have asked me to wait and see if it happens again
Any ideas what it could be?

one thing i want to add is that i went to sabzi mandi 2 times and i parked the car on a slope that faces downward so the car face was downward side..And when i give ignition to car it was producing a noise phurr phurr and switches off and then with the help of 2 mens i turned the face of car upward and then again i started it again started but bogs down so after alot tries i gave accelerator presssing pressing it gained the race and working perfectly fine..

Car was also on Reserve when this happened and now the car gives jerks at every stop light when i accelerate it does accelerate but gives a jerk and then gain speed like petrol is not coming. what can be the problem..

Fuel filter got clogged being used too much on reserve fuel or something else.

after filling from Total Petrol pump this problem started before my car was a smooth and silk drive.

GOTO HELL TOTAL....

[imrananr]

you run 100& hi octane? mind telling which pump in lahore as i myself cant find hi octane since few days here, you should never run on 100% hi octane in any car by the way as hi octane here is HOBC which is not a fuel, its supposed to be mixed with regular petrol, you dont need much of it in vitz.

try running 50/50 petrol, rest for mechanical issues soon senior members would guide you.

May I ask you the reason of not running fuel on 100% high octane and the disadvantages.
I run my vehicle Vitz 1.0 2013 model on 100% HOBC and am happy.

[arzaam.bhatti]

May I ask you the reason of not running fuel on 100% high octane and the disadvantages.
I run my vehicle Vitz 1.0 2013 model on 100% HOBC and am happy.

HOBC acronym is self explanatory its s bending component not a stand alone fuel, i emailed shell in 2008 and got to know about HOBC and the fact that in pakistan at that time it was 98ron which is extremely high and after mixing it with petrol you'll end up somewhere between 91 92 ron. it can damage emission system catalytic convertor etc it your engine despite being somewhat high compression still wont be able to burn it off. you should using them 50/50 would be best.

see the last post in this thread by Xulfiqar
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/oil-fuel-fluids-filters/136333-hi-octanes-octane-level

you may follow this link and exercise your own judgement
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/oil-fuel-fluids-filters/1582-fuel-type-new-cars

[imrananr]

HOBC acronym is self explanatory its s bending component not a stand alone fuel, i emailed shell in 2008 and got to know about HOBC and the fact that in pakistan at that time it was 98ron which is extremely high and after mixing it with petrol you'll end up somewhere between 91 92 ron. it can damage emission system catalytic convertor etc it your engine despite being somewhat high compression still wont be able to burn it off. you should using them 50/50 would be best.

see the last post in this thread by Xulfiqar
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/oil-fuel-fluids-filters/136333-hi-octanes-octane-level

you may follow this link and exercise your own judgement
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/oil-fuel-fluids-filters/1582-fuel-type-new-cars

It's just a high octane fuel and can be used as 100% without mixing.
JDM's require 91+ octane fuel recommended by manufacturer. Here in Pakistan the regular fuel is some thing around 87 Octane, which causes engine knocking (pre-ignition / detonation) which reduces the life of an engine.
It's octane rating is something around 95. Hence after mixing with regular fuel you will end up as 91 to 92, thus fulfilling your requirements.
But when the manufacturer says that the minimum recommended octane rating to be used is 91 , then it means 91 and any thing above is recommended. Hence, if you use 95 octane rating (100% HOBC) then it's no problem but infact good for the engine.
Note here that certain additives are added to improve the octane rating and quality of fuel. Theses additives also keep your fuel injectors clean as compared to regular fuel. That's why, the price is higher and all the luxury vehicle owners who can afford it use it in their vehicles.

In early days, lead was used to improve the octane rating of fuel. But lead is cancerous and bad for health. It was eventually withdrawn from the market in mid seventies I guess.

No harm to catalytic converter as no lead is used in fuel now a days.

[arzaam.bhatti]

It's just a high octane fuel and can be used as 100% without mixing.
JDM's require 91+ octane fuel recommended by manufacturer. Here in Pakistan the regular fuel is some thing around 87 Octane, which causes engine knocking (pre-ignition / detonation) which reduces the life of an engine.
It's octane rating is something around 95. Hence after mixing with regular fuel you will end up as 91 to 92, thus fulfilling your requirements.
But when the manufacturer says that the minimum recommended octane rating to be used is 91 , then it means 91 and any thing above that is recommended. Hence, if you use 95 octane rating (100% HOBC) then it's no problem but infact good for the engine.
Note here that certain additives are added to improve the octane rating and quality of fuel. Theses additives also keep your fuel injectors clean as compared to regular fuel. That's why, the price is higher and all the luxury vehicle owners who can afford it use it in their vehicles.

From where did you get the idea and using a fuel of minimum octane rating AND UP will cause no problems at all??

If your car is not designed for that much octane fuel then it would have problems burning it and will definitely cause problems with emissions and injectors, that's why putting HOBC in mehran is going to do no wonders but infact harm it

Sure I am not telling you to skip HOBC and just use regular fuel but there's no benefit but infact harm in using pure HOBC, yes hi octane fuels have certain addictives which enhance engine cleanliness but do you actually know what addictives? For all we know in Pakistan they could be using lead as a octane booster as its a cheap way and there are no regulations here, ask any petrol pump owner if they have any proof their HOBC is unleaded and they won't be any,

I would like to see some sources and proof in your argument about using pure HOBC, I have already given mine in my last post

As far as luxury car owners go I own a w203 Mercedes with 2 litre engine imported from Japan and I either use 50/50 petrol hi octane or a German octane booster forgetting name but it's not liqui moly, it costs 900rs for one tank and caters to 60litres,it's certified to be safe on catalytic converters and O2 sensors and also says to be lead free, a feature you won't find on STP octane booster specifications any where let's say

Follow manufacturers requirements for your car which is 91 Ron, you need no more no less to maintain best of Health for your car

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[imrananr]

From where did you get the idea and using a fuel of minimum octane rating AND UP will cause no problems at all??

If your car is not designed for that much octane fuel then it would have problems burning it and will definitely cause problems with emissions and injectors, that's why putting HOBC in mehran is going to do no wonders but infact harm it

Sure I am not telling you to skip HOBC and just use regular fuel but there's no benefit but infact harm in using pure HOBC, yes hi octane fuels have certain addictives which enhance engine cleanliness but do you actually know what addictives? For all we know in Pakistan they could be using lead as a octane booster as its a cheap way and there are no regulations here, ask any petrol pump owner if they have any proof their HOBC is unleaded and they won't be any,

I would like to see some sources and proof in your argument about using pure HOBC, I have already given mine in my last post

As far as luxury car owners go I own a w203 Mercedes with 2 litre engine imported from Japan and I either use 50/50 petrol hi octane or a German octane booster forgetting name but it's not liqui moly, it costs 900rs for one tank and caters to 60litres,it's certified to be safe on catalytic converters and O2 sensors and also says to be lead free, a label you won't find on STP octane booster let's say

Follow manufacturers requirements for your car which is 91 Ron, you need no more no less to maintain best of Health

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Dear, you need to study three things,
1) Octane / Cetane rating of fuel
2) Pre-ignition
3) Detonation

In every country, minimum two type of fuels ( regular and premier) and used for vehicles (same in Pakistan).
In gulf countries, 91+ and 95+ are used. Both fuels can be used in vehicles where 91 octane is recommended and similar concept is for all other countries.

Go through the above three and you will understand that using a higher octane fuel than recommended will not harm your engine.

Why waste money on fuel boosters. Just use 100% HOBC if you can afford.

[arzaam.bhatti]

Dear, you need to study three things,
1) Octane / Cetane rating of fuel
2) Pre-ignition
3) Detonation

In every country, minimum two type of fuels ( regular and premier) and used for vehicles (same in Pakistan).
In gulf countries, 91+ and 95+ are used. Both fuels can be used in vehicles where 91 octane is recommended and similar concept is for all other countries.

Go through the above three and you will understand that using a higher octane fuel than recommended will not harm your engine.

Why waste money on fuel boosters. Just use 100% HOBC if you can afford.

Don't want to get into a argument just having a discussion, I think you should go through the tree headings your posted yourself

You haven't yet put forward single, source proving any of your claims let alone anything substantial to counter Xulfiqar's view in the link I provided

Giving example of gulf countries doesn't prove anything, and even that argument is flawed as if as you say in every country minimum two octane fuels are used then why does it matter if your car is JDM or not or people are worried that their car knocks on fuel here, a car which requires premium will always have a sticker on the fuel filler flap saying so and your vitz doesn't require premium, the only reason it knocks on normal petrol here is because there is a difference in every countries octane rating and quality of fuel and your car is species for japanese fuel which uses different addictives than the formula here

You should read through all above headings and then do a scientific test

I have a gli which is Euro 2 so catalytic converter and has same compression ratio as your vitz which is 10.5:1 and its manual also says to use 91 Ron if I am not mistaken

I did a detonation test with the car moving and a diagnostic reader connected

On normal pso petrol it reported no to slight detonation/pinging

On 50/50 it reported no detonations

And I have tried 100% hi octane too in my Altis with a compression ratio of 9.5:1 which doesn't require hi octane and the diagnostic reader showed a very slight increase in calculated engine load as it would have found it harder to burn of fuel but I didn't notice any difference in drive with either 50-50 or pure 100% anyway

Mercedes does not reccomends any petrol addictives in the manual and I only used it once in 6 months when hi octane was in shortage, but i would trust it more if I had to then to fill up hi octane in a petrol pump rather than filling up form a pump I haven't tested wih the other car let alone 100% HOBC

provide any proof to your claims otherwise your arguments aren't substantiated and I am least budged, we have detracked from the thread anyway, the only reason I posted about it initially is its a common misconception and I have personally seen more people In my community use it because they are under a misconception that thier car require pure HOBC or they think it's cool because they equate it akin to people filling up their hi compression direct fuel injected latest Mercedes

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[qwertypoiu]

What ever people, anyone running their local cars or JDM dinky on high octane only is just burning money thats all. Your dinky do not need high octane at all. If there is some problem one can poure in some injector cleaner ever 10k or more Km should be fine...

Coming to the main problem as i think a BAD battery can make the car do the same better check that..

[imrananr]

No argument brother. It's your choice, you can keep on adding octane boosters in fuel and I can may use 100% HOBC. At the end of the day both are happy with performance of our vehicles. Cheers!

[qwertypoiu]

Injector cleaner not octane booster there is a tit bit difference. That too if you feel something wrong..

[vitz_2006]

1: My vitz manual says RON 91+...... Logically speaking it means 91 and above.. But upper limit is not defined in the manual.... So if RON 97 will damage the engine then why does car manual not put upper limit of RON?

2: We live in the country where people sell donkey meat saying as regular meat,where honda, and toyota change the front grill and claim it as a new model and charge 100k more, where Suzuki does not change the shape of mehran for 18 years and yet we are expecting that PSO or other companies sell HOBC with 97 RON (that's what they theoretically claim) that too with 'private' transport owners distribution channels(God knows what they mix during the transport).... Food for though......

[imrananr]

1: My vitz manual says RON 91+...... Logically speaking it means 91 and above.. But upper limit is not defined in the manual.... So if RON 97 will damage the engine then why does car manual not put upper limit of RON?

#2: We live in the country where people sell donkey meat saying as regular meat,where honda, and toyota change the front grill and claim it as a new model and charge 100k more, where Suzuki does not change the shape of mehran for 18 years and yet we are expecting that PSO or other companies sell HOBC with 97 RON (that's what they theoretically claim) that too with 'private' transport owners distribution channels(God knows what they mix during the transport).... Food for though......

Totally agree with you.
When the manufacturer says 91+ octane is recommended, it means you should use 91 octane and anything above this as you have pointed out. Any thing below 91 is no at all advised to be used. Now it could be 92, 95 or 98 without any issues. But if you can find 91 octane cheaper than 95 octane then it's useless wasting money on 95 octane as 91 can be used. But the problem we have here is that either 87 or 95 octane is available. Hence, we can either mix with 50:50 ratio to get something around 91 or straight away use 95 octane 100%.

The other advantages with high octane is that it burns clean, keeps the fuel system clean etc. due to certain additives added into it.

[arzaam.bhatti]

1: My vitz manual says RON 91+...... Logically speaking it means 91 and above.. But upper limit is not defined in the manual.... So if RON 97 will damage the engine then why does car manual not put upper limit of RON?

#2: We live in the country where people sell donkey meat saying as regular meat,where honda, and toyota change the front grill and claim it as a new model and charge 100k more, where Suzuki does not change the shape of mehran for 18 years and yet we are expecting that PSO or other companies sell HOBC with 97 RON (that's what they theoretically claim) that too with 'private' transport owners distribution channels(God knows what they mix during the transport).... Food for though......

they dont put upper limit as its simply not required,it food of thought that people think that they can be smart and disregard manufacturers specification which is 91 ron and substitute 97? tell me even 1 benefit of using 97 ron in a economy car.whereas i have already told the disadvantages only when original manufacturer specification cannot be followed is when you start substitution your own, when manufacturer specification of 91 ron is there then thats the best possible fuel for your car.
and you can ask and check form the distribution company such as Shell head office and ask them what ron it is, and then goto a company operated pump, take a sample and send it to a petro chemical laboratory, there are present in paksitan , and if it doesn't match report it to consumer court,you'll be doing service for your country if you really care so much about it and that really wood be food for thought for everyone.

for me having tested values with diagnostic scanner and in a variety of cars, no benefit wa obtained in using 100% but loss infact, the car doesnt have pinging when used 50/50 octane and a compression ratio of 10.5:1 and above and all with lower than ratio than that run absolutely fine on regular petrol. all my cars have catalytic converters and the co2g/km emissions matches brand new cars which i have tested as well.

[arzaam.bhatti]

Totally agree with you.
When the manufacturer says 91+ octane is recommended, it means you should use 91 octane and anything above this as you have pointed out. Any thing below 91 is no at all advised to be used. Now it could be 92, 95 or 98 without any issues. But if you can find 91 octane cheaper than 95 octane then it's useless wasting money on 95 octane as 91 can be used. But the problem we have here is that either 87 or 95 octane is available. Hence, we can either mix with 50:50 ratio to get something around 91 or straight away use 95 octane 100%.

The other advantages with high octane is that it burns clean, keeps the fuel system clean etc. due to certain additives added into it.

i disagree with 91 ron and above statement as it has no advantage but the crux of the matter i agree with you
thats all i am trying to say when car requires 91 ron mix 50/50 and use that its the best, you will be mixing HOBC anyway so you are getting advantages of addictives in HOBC this way too.

Agreed

[vitz_2006]

Well, for the sake of argument, there is a difference between RON 91 and 91+. So if the manufacturer recommends 91+, then 91 is the least/boarder line,so it's one's call to live on borderline or above it.
As far as company operated pumps are concerned, please bear in mind that it's not only the pump owners that are culprit....but the tankers that bring the fuel and stop at many locations on the way from depot. also, remember these are the same pumps that were selling fuel at Rs 200 per litre along with fuel companies under fuel crisis, so you are expecting HOBC with RON 97 from these pumps and companies
..... long shot ......
I am not saying everyone is corrupt but majority is like this in our morally collapsed society..... It's sad but unfortunately true !

[vitz_2006]

Event after changing the fuel (refilling), problem still persists.So the cause is not bad fuel. Any suggestions what it could be ; car stops atleast 3-4 times a day randomly but always with long breath and long ignition thereafter.As per my driver it started the day he got its horn changed ( but I think it's a coincidence as car does not show any electrical fault)....The way car stops seems a fuel system related issue but I am not sure about it.( can it be recently changed fuel filter? )
I have taken car to toyota 3s twice but everytime even with atleast test drive of more than 30 mins, problem did not appear so they are unable to diagnose

[ahamid]

It does seem like the fuel pump motor has gone bad and not the pump itself. You could also get your injectors cleaned as you ran your car on the last drops of petrol, which could contain settled debris

[vitz_2006]

Just got fuel pump checked at Toyota 3s and it is generating normal 300(psi or whatever the unit is) pressure
So fuel pump is out of equation.This problem started immediately after two things were done 1). Liquimoly fuel system treatment was used 2). Fuel filter was changed 2 days after fuel system treatment.
According to my driver, the frequency of staling increases whenever fuel tank is refilled (could be a coincidence as well).I use PSO cavalry pump which is one of the best in lahore. Also according to him car is creating air in the fuel tank.(again he could be wrong).So any idea what the issue is. So far 3 of the toyota 3s are unable to diagnose it