Volksie: 5afe Powered Efi Beetle Restoration Project

[Xulfiqar]

Mr. Nasir Sheikh!

This is the original radiator place of rear radiator of Fiat 600, can you explain the difference of air dynamics from a beetle's body? Or the Fiat company just pissed on fence by producing 2,695,197 cars?

The major difference here is that the Fiat engine bay exhausts itself through its lid and, (btw it did have overheat issues) - To somewhat make your setup work you need to close off the factory air inlets below the rear window - as the car moves forwards - a low pressure area is created which was then assisted by the original engine fan in the boxer and the bay itself was channeling air from those louvers and the fan pumping it out from the bottom.

however in the fiat the lid exhausts the engine bay (quite poorly though) but there is no other air intake to the engine bay from the top like the VW has.

[KhanGarh]

I know they place radiator in front and I have also thoroughly examined Porche on our dealership it has front rad but my brother these all are high speed cars. How many original engine beetles you have seen on motorways or in a race event here in Pakistan?

[KhanGarh]

I have already planned to close upper air vents and my lid also have rear vents so I posted this illustration some days back

The major difference here is that the Fiat engine bay exhausts itself through its lid and, (btw it did have overheat issues) - To somewhat make your setup work you need to close off the factory air inlets below the rear window - as the car moves forwards - a low pressure area is created which was then assisted by the original engine fan in the boxer and the bay itself was channeling air from those louvers and the fan pumping it out from the bottom.

however in the fiat the lid exhausts the engine bay (quite poorly though) but there is no other air intake to the engine bay from the top like the VW has.

[KhanGarh]

Update...

[VCheng]

I have already planned to close upper air vents and my lid also have rear vents so I posted this illustration some days back

You can always add plastic brake cooling ducts used by many cars to add to the airflow if needed.

[Xulfiqar]

I know they place radiator in front and I have also thoroughly examined Porche on our dealership it has front rad but my brother these all are high speed cars. How many original engine beetles you have seen on motorways or in a race event here in Pakistan?

Its not all about speed - the original VW beetle was never meant to be a speedy car - it was designed to carry a german family of 4 on the motorway at 100 km/h easily.

speaking of porsche and air flow and speed - to really understand the "insanity" of Porsche have a look at a 1978 turbo 911 and look at its charge air cooler, it seems to placed at a quite stupid place, Its not - its pretty thought out and actually has quite a large pressure differential across its fins from front to back.

what you are trying to do is the Citroen DS setup in the rear - they made a car with no grille on the bonnet, but had a vertical radiator at front - to overcome this they placed a soft flexible duct on it. It fills up with air and forces it across the fins. That takes care of 1 part but they did not care about it exhausting quick enough from the engine bay. It gets a bit "hot"

[lazeez]

After all the discussion here, do post the results here out in the open whether good or bad.

As far as your doubts on the original vw setup goes, it is matchless in reliability in every aspect. Don't be put off by the age. A 1600cc dual port will keep up with most of the jap-cars. Put a dual-carb and you're ready to shame all. Also, it is so simple in design that any mechanic with a grain of competence can fix it anywhere on the globe. You don't need much to keep it running. I can't recall the last time I had to get some work done other than an oil change. Went cross country and driving up to 20 hours without stopping and not a hiccup from the car. Fuel average was 17km/l. All things considered, its pretty difficult to top that. You can't really improve on perfection.

Do post updates on your car. What are your plans for ducts leading to the radiator? Please share the brake and steering arrangement.

[nmshaikh]

Mr. Nasir Sheikh!

This is the original radiator place of rear radiator of Fiat 600, can you explain the difference of air dynamics from a beetle's body? Or the Fiat company just pissed on fence by producing 2,695,197 cars?

I didn't mean to question your credentials just the fact that everyone here is (and I too am concerned) pointing towards the restricted flow of cooling air. Fiat did place the radiator in a tight spot and DID face cooling (or over-heating issues). However that was a small engine (in a Fiat 600) and you are talking 1500cc's here. I feel your set-up stands a better chance (if at all) when going at a higher speed than at lower speeds when the air intake would be dependant only on the electric fans that you plan to install.

Having said that, the Wright brothers aircraft model faced criticism from sceptics too. It can never fly, they said. They were proved wrong. The tiny difference here is that the sceptics then had never seen any machine actually lift off the ground...we have read and we have seen engines overheat when there isn't enuff cooling air. Still, I wish you luck and would be following the progress here.

[KhanGarh]

Thanku all brothers, actually your comments and interest in my project rebuild my courage to take this project to completion. InshaAllah will be sharing you updates soon as fitting and wiring is in progress these days.

[KhanGarh]

RPM meter designed by me

[KhanGarh]

Posting pix after completion of project. Car is running fine with rear radiator setup... Though I cant keep it total original but its a nice daily runner now. Comments are welcome

[KhanGarh]

Radiator scoops and duct

[lazeez]

RPM meter designed by me

This is neat. Please share some more info on this.

[KhanGarh]

@lazeez... I have used mechanism of toyota rpm meter and have designed the dial on computer and then printed it. For chrome ring I have used zero size steel bangel. You can easily fit this into shell of some vw speedo meter.

[KhanGarh]

If u require I may send you dial design u just have to print it

[KhanGarh]

[saadabdulrahim]

Things like these make scrappers happy.

[KhanGarh]

@saadabdulrahim ... what do you mean Mr.? I would like to know which factor in this thread made your head gaskit blow... lolxxxx

[umar.shadab]

Can you send me the dial design .. thanks.

[KhanGarh]

Can you send me the dial design .. thanks.

Sure... please PM me your email id