What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan

[Salarzae]

@gorkan! .... soryy.... burrier

yes I'm also one of those kids who don;t know anything about the mkt condition in pk and sit faraway on PC in united neverland and 'n try to conclude...... I never thought u were also one of us 'n will get upset!!!

the only conclusion, infact advice I made was, don't just post...... do something...!!!

[Racerf1]

@MotownM
With all due respect! Pls and I say pls do not bad mouth Adam Motors Revo or Pak Suzuki, coz Suzuki started the assembling process that we have today and Adam started the manufacturing process that we have today. They need to be given credit where it is due and respected for their effort, they are nothing but pioneers, you maybe one too.We might not like them, and complain about them but we still buy them We might know jackshit like Salarzae and Datzburier point out but we do not like to be taken as fools either. We are nothing but some of your best future customers.

So Good luck to you, for what ever venture you take, and Inshallah we will be there to support you all the way in any and every possible way.

There is a proverb in Balochi which translated goes like this

"oh that my country is nothing but dry wood and thorny bushs, but it is still mine"

Hamra Pakistan joh bhee hai (good, bad, rich or poor), lakin Hamara hai.

Sorry, if I got to emotional!

[Salarzae]

@Racerf1

I copy u on that!

u r not getting emotional, infact it is true for every Pakistani.

I like the proverb u translated, pretty damn true!!

[MotownMadman]

@Racerf1 and all Pakistani Brothers on PakWheels...

Please understand I have the UTMOST RESPECT for all Pakistanis who have worked so hard and thanklessly in the Auto Industry to move our great country forward. Mr. Feroz Khan is a personal friend of mine and I admire him immensly and everything he has achieved with Omar Jibran Engineering and Adam Motors...If not for their efforts, I couldn't even consider what I am trying to do. In fact, Feroz Khan is the past Director of the Engineering Development Board of Pakistan, paving the way for some remarkable policy to help Pakistani Auto Vendors.

When it comes to the line of people who respect the Pakistani Pioneers in Industry you will have to fight me to be first in that line.

I am not a critic, but one who is purely constructive in his criticism with the hope of all of us elevating ourselves. And I am not on the sidelines. I too have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into the Pakistani Economy providing jobs and opportunities...So I respectfully have earned the right to speak about improving things for our people.

Don't confuse people who only say nice things about Pakistan as being patriotic. Real Patriotism comes from taking action, righting what is wrong and improving what is the status quo. I love Pakistan and merely want to do my little part to make it better...Pakistan Zindabad!

[c123pk]

Make a car thats a proper 800cc hatchback, people here with scooters and bikes are desperate to have cars so they can take their families with a little safety not on top of the handle of scooters please do something in the budget of 1,99,000/= We dont need super cars here , maybe this project of yours will entertain that class who buys Alto and Cultus, Santro etc, but at 2 lacs even the lower middle class will be able to buy a car on leasing atleast and yes that car should be a proper car not like Awami Sitara(ALIF and BAY)with 200cc scooter engine and the price over 1,70,000/= Now tell me who ll buy it , ppl can buy a suzuki mehran (used 1) for that price So, this market has got real potential for a 2 lac rupee proper car, i hope you understand madman, salam.

[MotownMadman]

We have recieved some interesting data from our research and I would like to share it with all of you. With the massive growth in CNG kit sales, we are considering designing a car around a dedicated CNG system. That is, design and optimize the engine and vehcle specifically for CNG for the Pakistani market...No tank in the trunk or any such half approach...Any thoughts?

[c123pk]

That will be great a tank at the right place and cars engine made for CNG/petrol.

[Racerf1]

@Motown
But that would limit people in cities only since CNG is not as widely used outside the cites, where people still rely on diesel. I do not know to what extent it would be a good idea. But I di like proper CNG car. Just and idea how about a Electric Hybrid?

[MotownMadman]

Thanks for the feedback my brothers. Good point about small towns...I'll have to think about that. Hybrids are a complete fad. The payback is not there: In the US a Honda Accord Hybrid carries a $4000 premium and saves about $10/week. If you run the numbers it would take 8 years to payback and in 6-7 years you have to replace the huge 42 volt Lithium Ion battery pack at about $2000...Its a fad.

[c123pk]

CNG here is allover sindh i travel everywhere, i find it almost everywhere now ! A car with 2 cng cylinders of 50ltrs will travel around 350 kms !

[Racerf1]

@Motown
Yes hybrid is a Fad but hopefully with the way battery technology is rolling there is hope.

@C123pk
Dude, 2 CNG cylinders means less passengers. It will give you the range but with less pax.

[c123pk]

I was looking at the fuel consumption of a hybrid now the equation is more or like this,
Petrol=100 rupees
Hybrid= 75 rupees
CNG = 50 rupees
come with something better than CNG and sure is a success here,
USA is a huge sized country, Pakistan is smaller than Texas in size,
On CNG than can do a 100 miles max,
We'll do 200 kms(coz of smaller engines, small cities=small cars with small engines)
Now come with some better argument buddy !

[Racerf1]

@c123pk
ok I think your numbers are flawed I have done no research and just compared 2 2006 Lexus Rx models one is a hybrid and the other is not. Your research according to you show a difference of 25% between these two and here it is actually showing more. I can make more of these comparison but I choose the SUV and I also choose city fuel consumpation cycles coz they would resemble Pakistans driving habits.

Lexus RX 330
Fuel Economy
City (mpg) 19

Lexus 400H (Hybrid)
City (mpg) 31
source: www.auto.msn.com

Yes Hybrid are expensive and will be expensive to maintain, but how about a CNG in a Hybrid, I say name it Hybrid Square (Meaning square root).

Hybrids are more suitable coz of our driving habits where we would be using more braking and that mean batteries getting charged more. So at its present state is expensive but is a part of our fuel consumption solution.

So as for an argument, there are plenty that i can give you. Its not an argument if you just throw numbers from your head, which any one can make up. It needs to be supported by facts and I mean proper facts not by just some lines copied from forums.

[MotownMadman]

Guys, hold on now...

I have two friends with a Hybrid LH400 and my sister-in-law has a Toyota Highlander Hybrid (same system) My Sister-in-Law's actual mileage in the city, (they work in New York) is more like 26 mpg not 31. This is because the way the hybrids are designed is to optimize the epa MILEAGE CYCLE "test", NOT ACTUAL REAL WORLD MILEAGE.

[c123pk]

I love that idea of Hybrid/Cng Racerf1, i thought abt it oncebut thought it was not practical

[c123pk]

It is practical but not for that ideal car of mine, which will be for 2 lacs only, whats so bad if we get assistance from china, why china , because we made a good car Adam Revo, now ,for its heavy duty body shell and spacios room i say its a perfect car for that 2 lac rupee car with 800cc engine but yaro look at the dash and the interior flaws, i know they must have spent alot designing it but still we need assistance, if they had ordered some good company in china, they sure have provided a better dash with alot more things(RPM meter and stereo with good looking switches, glove box with some good lock , console, etc)now that ALSONS speedometer is really very cheap but because they are alsons and they provide parts to PAKSUZUKI the great, they were the first choice for Adam motors, truly speaking i dont like the plastic/rubber work of Adam revo, i can afford those weldings and nut bolts without covers in it, but that dash and other plastic and rubber things are of low quality which i know must have costed them more

[zeus]

hi every1,
Salams. I am a 2nd yr A lvl student in khi...plan to do mech eng n quite interested in cars...

the point i would like to make here is dat global supplies of cng/petrol/diesel are diminishing. There's no doubt about that. It will be a matter of only a few decades when the last drop vil b spent...wat den...where vil all deze cars go..wat bout da R & D den?
consequently i would like to suggest Motown to design cars which COULD b adapted to alternative fuels later on...or better still, those which already run on alternative sources (fuel cells, hybrids, electric, solar?)
IMHO if pk bcomz da fist manufacturer of mass-produced cars runnin on renewable energy sources our fame world-wide would be unimaginable.
Don't think the lack of resources would hamper such a project...coz wen dere is a will dere is a way...

btw check out www.willyoujoinus.com for further information about diminishing oil supplies.

Please reply wat u think bout ma suggestion.

AH...tc

[MotownMadman]

@zeus
Very good points and worth considering, but first consider this: A big part of alternate fuels, which I am a strong advocate of, is that you need infrastructure. I don't mean to sound blunt, but we have at least 35 years of Sui Gas available for Pakistani consumption. Now, there is new Solar technology discovered this year that will be commercialized this decade and wind power is getting competetive so more residential/commercial renewable energy sources will be available further extending the 35 years. Keep in mind, our research is leading us to CNG, whose storage tank technology is a great segway into Hydrogen...hint hint ...get it? That's all I can say for now, but I am with you zeus, my brother, but it will take twenty years and I have to build a strong foundation of Engineering talent in Pakistan to complement what is already there. The current sales have to fund the futuire R&D, wouldn't you agree?

[datzburier]

Interesting discussion, I was away for a while. Was busy getting Married....

The Internal Combustion engine is here to stay. So, any car made in Pak, should be IC engine running on Fossil fuels. Its been more than 120+ years since Petrol Run engine was invented, it has outlived, the Electric Engine, which was invented around same time. So, the method of fuel may have enhanced with cleaner burning fuels, but the basic engine is same design as the first Internal Combustion engine. So, no matter what will be the source of its energy, Gasonline, cleaner Diesel, or CNG, or even Hydrogen, or whatever, it will stay.

Now the Motown Brother's idea of car built around CNG has solid ground. The vehicle should also have an auxialiary fuel tank for Petrol, as most people do keep Petrol in the Tank of the cars as well, specially for the drive on hilly areas. I have visited Murree Last week, and all the cabs and car I noticed, even on mountainous Hilly region like Murree were on CNG or Diesel.

The Diesel is also second best option, considering cleaner burning Diesel, specially for hilly areas, as I was in a car with 2.0 Diesel engine climbing hills of Murre at 7,000+ feet altitude in 3rd gear with ease.

So, to keep the discussion on track, the CNG is currently most popular source of fuel in Pakistan, and also gaining popularity around the world. As far as natural gas reserves are concerned, there are plenty of reserves to feed the need for many centuries. Pakistan is already in talks with Iran to use its gas, as most of you must be aware of the Iran, Pakistan, India, Gas Pipeline in works, and another Gaspipeline which is under consideration is Turkmanistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan line. So, there is no lack of Natural Gas it will still be economical while importing it.

The design of the CNG cylinder should be such that it be a multirole design. Forexample, the Cylinders could be built inside the Chasis steel bars, while being safely built into the car body, to support its frame, the hollow steel frame can also store the fuel. In case of crash, it should be made in a way that it does not explode and engulf the whole vehicle floor. The cylinder stowed away in trunk has that element of safety, as it will be away from Sparks and crash forcees.

[sonyseth]

Motown! (I have deliberately omitted Madman because u r nowhere near it)can't find words of appreciation for ur efforts after reading the post. even if this is like that ertwiklang or whatever, still it sounds gr8.

I agree to most of the views of our friends here but ur post summed it up all. A dedicated CNG vehicle is the best option because most of cars sell in big cities (almost 99%) n they all have cng even on highways now. Natural gas/ fossil fuels r yet to be discovered in Pakistan so I don't see any shortage in near future. We haven't gone off-shore for oil exploration as yet. Just last year there was a huge gas discovery in Karak NWFP. So many r expected to follow.
The CNG cylinder can be placed in place of petrol tank; it should be extra reinforced to store more gas in lesser volume. Why not a donut shaped cylinder in place where spare wheel is places. The spare wheel can be placed alongside one of the back fender like in 1990 cressida.
U can talk to Mr. Munawar @ 92 300 8555337 who has made the first cng kit in pakistan. He is planning to manufacture cylinders as well.
Best of luck!