What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan

[MotownMadman]

@datzburier...CONGRATS on your Marriage! May Allah bless you always and may you have many children like you who want to help Pakistan, InshaAllah.

@sonyseth...thanks for the kind words...And Dude! Thanks a million for Mr. Munawar's phone. I just spoke with him and we will see what happens. If things crystallize, be sure and remind me I at least owe you dinner at the best restaurant in Pakistan for your help the next time I am there.

Now, some details...A dedicated CNG vehicle means no petrol option. This allows a great deal of optimization that just couldn't happen if petrol were included. There are SEVERAL cost reduction and performance enhancing opportunities that can be gained with this system, some of which are undergoing patent filings right now and once the patents are granted I will share more. Integrating the tank to the chassis is one key thing like datzburier said, but HOW you do it is the secret. Also, since CNG has a very high octane rating we can design a combustion chamber for ultra high compression without knock resulting in a compounded benefit in power and fuel economy. This coupled with a 20% weight reduction over a Mehran will result in a much faster more powerful car with better fuel economy.

Cheers!

[zeus]

I didn't know pk was so much self-sufficient in CNG! Lets pray the US govt doesn't turn greedy eyes towards us!
I hv heard dat wen CNG is used da engine life is halved!? I think dats crap...but I dunno wat is da truth?
We should also bear in mind dat the cylinder doesn't necessarily hv to b a 'cylinder' (does it?) it can b ny convenient shape which would b compatible wid da car...we also need to consider da material used 4 fuel storage coz dats where all da weight lies n more weight=more fuel consumption.
But I do disagree with datzburier i don't think da IC is here to stay...coz wen v switch over to hydrogen (praps after a century) fuel cells vil b required...discarding da IC completely
Waise shaadi mubarak datzburier!
tc ppl...AH

[shueyb]

But CNG-run vehicle can be used for only intra-city transport, I guess. As we don't have CNG available all over the country and on inter-city roads. So, many cities may not be able to have this car on their roads.

[datzburier]

Thank You Sheryar Bhai and Zeus. I am still in Islamabad, will depart for Michigan on December 03. Sheryar Bhai, if you want anything from Islamabad/Rawalpindi area, I can bring over to your place in Michigan.

Long live CNG. One thing I noticed is that there are always long Cues here, at the CNG filling stations, so a faster filling CNG kit or cylinder with self compressing piston or some other gadget like that built inside the cylinder, like the Doctor's Syringe Needle, that can pull the Compressed gas in the cylinder fater will be an invention by itself, reducing the wait time at the pump. And maybe a smaller, emergency cylinder (15 to 20 Kgs) stowed away under the seat if the car runs out of Natural gas, just to run it to closest CNG filling station, is a little idea, rather than keeping the Petrol tank as an option for emergencies.

The fully CNG run car will be a first in the world, as all the rest are mainly Petrol converted CNG Vehicles world over.

[sonyseth]

Thanx Motown for ur kind offer but a mere meeting with u will be an honor for me. I just hope that ur project sees daylight, inshaallah.

[c123pk]

Motown man , you can make a saftey reserve tank of 10-12 liters of petrol for that car of yours. salaam.

[c123pk]

Motown man , you can make a saftey reserve tank of 10-12 liters of petrol for that car of yours, which would not take much space, so you can design the chassi for that CNG thing.

[MotownMadman]

@zeuss
Unfortunately high pressure cylinder engineering has MANY constraints. It has to be a cylinder (or ideally a ball) for uniform pressure distribution. To make a non uniform shape would need exceesive wall thickness to compensate, driving cost and weight to unreasonable levels.

You may be interested to know that even welding on a bracket to a CNG high pressure cylinder can result in catastrophic failure/explosion due to local material weakness from the weld. Remember the Indian tank that blew up? Stupid Indians! lol...just kidding my friends to the East.

Now datzburier, my newly married friend, I feel that a CNG only vehicle affords the best solution for Pakistan. As soon as petrol is introduced numerous advantages can not be utilized. Also We have a long term 5-10 year plan to export into Europe with CNG dedicated vehicle technology for the Caravan Market.

The tank would be a dedicated design as the "backbone" of the vehicle with everything attached to it, but not by welding. This also reduces the cost of the supply lines as the tank valve is in the engine bay.

[Khanate]

What about an ethanol based fuel solution, like what has been implemented in Brazil?

Also, I think another 800c engined car is a bad idea for Pakistan. The small engined budget car is already well catered for with the Revo and Mehran. I think making a car in the Civic style hatchback range or even a saloon would be a much better idea.

[Autophobia]

@MotownMadman
All good stuff.That prooves that Pakistan is full of talanted engineers.I live in UK and I am not in the position to give fruitful comments on marketing attributes. However I must say that cost and styling are the key factors in the developing markets like Pakistan. Having said that why focusing the domestic market as baseline model.This would restrict you from moving into international markets later on the programme specially from crash aspects which is the BIW design driver nowadays.

What are your thoughts about transmission and engine suppliers, nvh and acoustic packaging, PT installation, suspension types.
I have worked for many OEMs and Tier1 suppliers in Europe and for many developing markets except Pakistan. In fact my current client is very similar to what we are discussing in this forum.I would love to help you if you need any assistance.

[norway]

Toyota Corolla 1,4 Turbo Diesel, Saloon

[twisted2fit]

I dont have an engineering background but always thought a space frame chassis with non load bearing fibre-glass body panels would be a cheap option, maybe something in the mould of the trikes of yester-year like morgan used to do possibly. I would think an engine displacement of 250cc air cooled would be ok. Air cooled removing the need for expensive and heavy cooling systems. Ideally one would use a motorbike engine as a donor me thinks. Would it be possible to run an air conditioner compressor like turbos are run via exhaust gases??? Price would be under 1 lac rupees and seat 3 to 4 people.

[Salarzae]

@M_T_M_M

as per @twisted, I think I don't have to go deep but only one name can explain all my thoughts about it....

TRABANT!

Fiberglass and small but efficient engineering piece of art!

[MotownMadman]

Sorry I've been away for a while...business calls, but it's all good. I'm looking to source many automotive parts from Pakistan to the USA market in the next couple of weeks, Inshallah.

@Autophobia...I would love to get your help my Brother. It sounds like you have some useful skills. My email is sdurrani@thetford.com. Drop me a line and fill me in and I will get back to you promptly. If you are serious, and I'm sure you are, I will send you an Internationally binding Non Disclosure Agreemant and fill you in on all the details and see where and how you can fit in...

Where are all the other Pakistani Engineers around the world? I can't hear you!

Alhamdullilah, many good things are happening. I am in negotiations now to have Pakistani Engineers in Karachi do work for my company in America...Project Launch date: January 19, 2006. I have assigned several of my Design Engineers and Tooling Engineers to help train the Pakistani staff to our needs. This is the beginning. I will be coming to Pakistan in late Jan or February...TBD, but I would love to have a forum with those who can truly make a contribution. My time is very limited, as I am sure is all of yours, but if anyone can contribute drop me a line.

@Salarzae...The Trabant is good, but not good enough. The holistic solution I have in mind is "Deep and Wide" taking compound advantage of world class engineering, breakthrough creativity and low labor cost resources to create synergy for a complete vehicle solution...The Trabant merely reduced tooling cost, but with too many compromises, and total cost of operation was higher than a steel body due to weight from thick fiberglass and safety was nowhere to be found...There are better ways... and in the ensuing months I will share more.

[sonyseth]

Motown! Bro this is music to my ears:
"Project Launch date: January 19, 2006". I pray for the success of this project. I wish i was an engineer:)

[datzburier]

Anybody with Engineering Degree, Practical Engineering Skills/Experience, CNC Tool design, CAD CAM experience or any automotive related skills, etc. should contact Sheryar Bhai at;

sdurrani@thetford.com

Sheryar Bhai is a very busy Executive, brother will be visiting Karachi, Pakistan, at the end of January or February. If you are serious about an Engineering Career contact Sheryar Bhai, don't let this opportunity pass you by.

Sheryar Durrani Bhai's e-mail again:
sdurrani@thetford.com

[levin]

madman:
i still think corolla has been, is, and will be the hotest seller in pakistan. suzuki takes place in small car market. peace.

[zahoorasif]

The rich clas can already afford to purchase and maintain the 10lacs+ cars. There is only need to introduce a car or cars for middle class from 2 lacs to 4lacs price range.
Just make a car which can do atleast 30KM a litre or more.
this car should not be smaller than a mehran or cuore but can be bigger than a corolla.
Ideally a hubrid car should be introduced to Pakstani market.

[OO7]

Dont know if this could help u guys....

"Today, 30 years later, inventor Daniel Dingel is driving around in the only water-powered car in the world, still complaining that Filipino government officials and scientists refuse to support his invention. "

more here...
http://www.wasserauto.de/html/inquirer_article.html

[AmeerShujjah]

I like fast cars which should range from about 3000cc and above with a minimum of about 250 break horse power i just became 13 a few days ago and i dont really know how hard it is to earn money to buy such a car