What Kind of Car is Best For Pakistan

[nickatnite]

I like the 'Alif'.

[kavs]

I Like 'SITARA" then....

[humy]

an idea car would ofcourse be the lexus lx470, or a maybach, maybe the mercedes CL55 amg, or one of those lamborghinis....and now switching back to reality, lets see instead of giving u measurements il just state this in words.

ther can ofcourse be no perfect car or the 'ideal' car becuase different ppl have different tastes, needs, wants and if u try and squeeze all this into one car...boy itl be ugly. so a line up of cars shud be designed from sporty to luxurious to simple bachelor kind to the estima type van.!

[datzburier]

@KAVS and nick

Indian "friends".... What are you upto now... LoL...

Both TMC's Alif and Habib group's Sitara are good. Nothing wrong with them. considering the cost just around 1 lakh, they have done a good job.

[datzburier]

Considering both TMC and Habib group are just experiementing at this stage. Their embryonic design will definately mature into a beautiful swan one day. Just wait and see.

Infact Alif has been exported already to African and South American market.
In just 4 or 5 years time, they will be just at par with Adam Motors REVO and Adam Motors REVO would have Moved on to, competing with SEDANS..etc...They are well on their way to develop their next car.

[zeus]

Salams,
I have just come back from Hajj and noticed that in KSA chevy's n BMW's r normal...even KIA buses r running dere as vel as Suzuki Baleno...n ppl here say dat these companies r not good! (Suzuki n KIA) i think the first step to revolutionise auto industry should be to lower auto prices...u can get toyota camry dere for 5 lac rupees y shud pakis pay such a large amount...?
regarding the best design for a paki car i think we shud take in mind the majority population which is poor AND illiterate also the hot weather in cities should be taken into a/c so that radiators r larger leading to greater engine efficiency..wat bout it?
i also explored da link about da philippino who invented a water-running car i would like to ask motown to give some thought to it...praps da patent can b bought n used in pk if it makes sense?

[MotownMadman]

Good comments zeuss. I will consider all but the last. Also 5 lacs for a Camry is $7800. In America a Camry starts at about $17,000. Are you sure about your numbers and are they for a NEW Camry. Even a Corolla in the USA is $13,000 base.

About the water car...see the post already on this subject where somebody asked me about this. You will see my response there with much more details from the many members here.

ciao!

[porscheul]

so today (19 jan 2006) is the project launch date
cheers

[MotownMadman]

And indeed I have just sent the Scope of Work aout and it has begun!

Also it is my 16th wedding anniversary!

[humy]

happy wedding anniversary Mr. Duranni!

[NadeemIqbal]

hi
i wanted to talk about this topic very much but it ll cost me a long time to write so it ll be in pcs. first of all i would think like a customer to design and facilitate this car and in this aspect i am very confused. i cant understand that why car manufacturing companies dont supply the facilities that they can give in extra 5 dollars cost and that people ll like them at all. like if a car gives u 6 interval vipor speed by comparison to 1.( i am talking about low end cars in pakistan and they dont give u) it ll cost 50 extra cents barely causwe they have installed all the relays and stuff now they only need the different ohm resistors to diff intervals, likewise if a car gives the automatic shutdown of the internal fan on specific temp when the heater is running, that would be great and even if u can do it with an lcd display or knob controled temp range ( i am talking about seprate control of heater and ac not climate control cause it ll cost very cheap) u know how much it ll cost? if its mechanical thermo thn 2 or 3 dollars and if electronic thn again 50 cents. thus u can change the features crietaria in pakistan from matching bampers, head rest, leather seats to auto headlights on in low light, automatic heater control on specific temp, 3 stage econo ac, auto defoger off, 5 sec delay for audio system to prevent it form burning with the surge that can effect when u turned it on and start the car, auto engine off when heatup due to cooling system failour(believe me this is very important)auto shut off when timing belt breaks away etc etc and i know u can find these functions in a luxury car but as question asked these should be in the best affordable car in the pakistan cause what i think electronics features can change the whole impression of the car and yet they r much cheaper on industrial level.
thanks

[zeus]

salams every1
ur suggestions nadeem r excellent but i think the initial capital required for the equipment used in mass producing dese features is v. high...besides local mechanics wouldn't know how 2 deal wid dem coz dey r pretty much illiterate...
nywayz ur talk suggests ur quite knowledgeable bout carz so praps it is feasible...lets c wat Motown says...

[nightsurfer]

@NadeemIqbal
totally agree. that a car's image can be enhanced by installing electronic systems.. which arent expensive. for example the chery qq (copy of chevy joy)comes with all the gadgets. and ppl are prefering it over the chevy (which actually is the original car) just because it is loaded with electronics.

[datzburier]

@Motown Bhai, congratulations on your 16th Wedding Anniversary.

So, you have sent started on your projet, that great. Insha-Allah it wil be a success.

@Nadeem Iqbal, you have given a good insight and you are right its very cost effective even if this stuff is just brought over from China at first. The Power windows Package in Pakistan can be installed for Rs. 4,000 or roughly $60. and other little things you have said, costing just $2 or $3 make a good impression for the customer. Those LCD screens, and gauges, and specially the Speedometer can use alot of nice Electronic features which can be cheaper than Mechanical features. I have seen a car that somewhat same dimension as REVO being sold in China,that is also being marketed as the cheapest car there, forgot the name, but anyway, it had a Headup Speedometer Display, meaning it show you Speed electronically on the Winshield, Just like the F-16 Fighter Jet. Luxury cars in US, like Caddilac I think has that feature. But, just like your point, electronic gadgets can be cheaper than Mechanical devices, like mechanical Speedometer, if Revo get DIGITAL Speedometer, and not even the Headsup display, even just a digital Speedo, along with Engine Tachometer, and other sensors, would be great. Would highly recommend Power Windows feature, that is what everyone is talking about, when in Chery QQ, China Car group.. LoL.

[MotownMadman]

@nadeemiqbal...and zeuss

Very good points, and you are right. There is a plan for extensive electronics integration.

Electronics have reached such low costs that they are more cost effective and MUCH more reliable than mechanical systems...And this coming from a Mechanical Engineer. Rest assured the interior design that is being done right now incorporates the most advanced technology to keep the costs to a minimum and the reliability at a maximum...two features critical for entry market success. The software and hardware electronics design is being done by a highly capable Pakistani Engineer here in Detroit and will include a 7" LCD screen with multifunction capability including reconfigurable speedo and tach. Also this screen will have two camera feeds from the side view cameras in place of mirrors...It really is now feasible. Power windows will be integrated with a new patented technology I have developed and will keep costs very low and reliability and sealing at an optimum.

Oh and by the way, there is no wiring harness or connectors in the traditional sense in this car and yet it has immense electronics integration. Advanced technology is often percieved as magic.

Thanks Datz!

[ehteshan123]

Hi all, I'm a very old visitor on this site, but seldom contribute. I, like a few other guys here, am an engineer. Should say that this website is ADDICTIVE.. Reminds me of my days in Isloo when I was a car freak!!! experiments like slicing down cars' tops to make'em convertibles, Overhauling motor bike engines at home, elongating chassis of J410s... bla bla...any way.. nice to be here... People seem to drift away from core topics occasionly..

I've got a few hints for someone looking to make a perfect paki car.. My perfect Paki car looks somewhat like the new Honda Odessey.. only looks.. Should have
* An econimical IC engine 1000-1500 cc with a big CNG tank (forget about solar-electrical fantasies)
* Long but a very firm chassis to accomodate 7 seats 2-3-2.
* Good gound clearance with large wheels
* Big strong shock absorbers - large Dia oil ones will do
* High gear ratios in the transmission for effort free city drive with 7 people with an overdrive or 1:1 for Highway. I beleive that smart gear ratios can overcome an engine capacity shortfall.
* Ducted Airconditioning
* Most important i think is the presence of proper insulation from sunlight & heat & lightweight bodyparts. Can be acieved by having a fibreglass roof with very shiny top. other fibreglass parts like bonets doors etc. Insulation is the most important for our weather.
* Don't worry about Power steering or P windows. A beautiful interior can be designed without the extra bits - we only need the very essentials to cut cost
* MUST BE UNDER Rs 300,000. Well! it surely can be done

[MotownMadman]

@ehteshan123

Good points...and some feedback:

1. It will have a HIGHLY economical engine, but 786cc with about 45hp, not 29hp like the Mehran. This engine will be very advanced in architecture and materials for ultra light weight...extensive use of magnesium. Now, 45hp and 500Kg in my car versus 29hp and 640Kg in a Mehran; Who do YOU think would win that race? I can not say more until the prototypes are done in the next few months and the patents are finalized.
2. The long term plan is not just one car, but a very lean flexible manufacturing strategy that will start with a 5 passenger entry level small car and move up from there to accommodate your Odyssey...I should know: I had a 2000 model year Honda Odyssey for 3 years and I loved it.
3. 8" ground clearance and 16" wheels with low profile tires...It has to look good too, yar! And don't worry about gaddas in the road, I've got it covered...It's all about innovation.
4. No shock absorbers in the traditional sense, or springs, but yes...ultra durability is the name of the game, because I know that a Pak car for 5 people actually will have 8-9 people. lol. Again, let the patents get done and I will tell all, or show all in production.
5. Sorry, no gears and no "traditional" automatic transmission. Oh, and no differential. Now you may understand the "Madman" in my name...this is the REAL DEAL.
6. Sorry, no airconditioning in the "tradtional" sense, but the car will be quite cool, never cold, but never too hot either. Excellent points about insulation and heat. Actually, high tint polycarbonate (light weight) glazing for the sides and rear, and tinted glass for the windshield. Also, fiberglass is much heavier than steel, yar, you should be ashamed of yourself for the suggestion Just kiddin'

And you definitely don't need power steering in a 500Kg car.

If you haven't guessed by now, I am not looking to merely cut costs, but find value for the consumer, give the customer an AWESOME value for his hard earned money. The power windows will cost less than manual with my design approach, and will make the poor man feel he has some small luxury in his life. It is important for those who can, to find ways to help those who can't

I am not just trying to build a car for Pakistan. I fully expect this car to have a 3:1 export ratio within two years of launch, and this would primarily be in Europe.

More L8R

[zeus]

@ Motown..
if dis dream indeed comes true...n ur passion continues i m certain within a decade pakistan vil b the BEST producer of cars in the world!
YO Madman! Keep it up!

[shueyb]

MotownMadman, your above post is like music to the years. You've revealed some new info there like the 786cc, 45hp engine, power windows, 500 kg weight. This sounds like a dream car. I'm already lovin' it
Can't wait for it.

[AmeerShujjah]

I think the best car for Pakistan should bee the new City or Revo/Mehran etc