11th Generation Civic Owners/ FanClub Discussion Thread

[ifadey]

If that's the yardstick then last year conditions were worse than today and ON was on Civic RS due to delivery times and not on any H6. It won't last forever. It's only on HEV because of longer waiting time.

It isn't my standard of selection. I select vehicles based on the needs, resale is secondary. This is common sense.

Last year RS was the only car that was selling on ON. That says a lot about what people value.

I replied to this. To me it looks like people are valuing H6 more these days when resale of all cars are dead including Toyota. The future of resale is going to change drastically. In the coming years value of vehicles from big 3 won't the same as they used to be. Just to give you a glimpse of what is happening globally to very strong Japanese markets like Thailand where all the factories are and our big 3 imports everything from there.

[mgalaxy3]

Nothing is happening to resale of Toyota, Honda and Suzuki - at least their main models. In the long term.

Just because a Chinese car is trending doesn’t mean it will last the test of time specially when it comes to resale, parts availability and reliability.

MG was also selling on massive owns few years back. Now nobody is buying it and people are stuck.

Even Sportage and Tucson is struggling.

All part of market ups and downs related to the state of economy.

[tech_wiz]

If that’s not your standard of selection then why bother mention it.

My simple point is that if H6 HEV delivery time was reduced to 1 week, ON on it would disappear immediately. It’s an investor sentiment more than buyer sentiment and the byproduct of that is that it has established H6’s market. Which works to Sazgars advantage obviously as reflected in their share price trajectory.

It’s a separate debate on why it exists only for HEV which also happens to be their most expensive variant. I have my theory on it but that’s for another time.

[pwuser164163568474]

civic oriel is pretty much empty and lacks power.

Have you driven an Oriel? While they are certainly empty and very stripped down, the power is quite acceptable. The turbo gives it a really decent early torquey feel and the power surprised me many times in sports mode. The figure of 120 hp sounds quite understated when I compare it with something comparable like an Altis 1.6. If we're talking about lacking power in terms of the price, then that is understandable

[darthvader]

It’s a separate debate on why it exists only for HEV which also happens to be their most expensive variant. I have my theory on it but that’s for another time.

Isn't that generally the case with Pakistan's auto market? When was the last time a mid variant or base variant was the most popular selling one. H6 AWD is objectively a better car than HEV but people just want the 'best' aka the most expensive model.

[tech_wiz]

This has never happened before where top variant has ON whereas same car's base and mid variants not only do not have ON but are depreciating instead at the same time.

I wouldn't even call HEV as the top varient because it lacks AWD which is extremely essential at these power levels. It a top varient only in price. Otherwise I believe H6 AWD is the best all rounder midsize+ 5 seater Crossover SUV. Period.

[darthvader]

ON is a result of demand-supply gap. Base variants don't sell, that's why they don't have any on. They have no demand, so they have poor resale as well, which is why they depreciate more.

[tech_wiz]

In PKDM market historically base variants have always sold the most. Even now H6's lower variants do sell. There is decent demand as well. But Sazgar has highest margins on HEV. They control the supply to create demand for specific products on which they have highest margin. Companies will always do this whenever they get the chance.

[darthvader]

That's absolutely not the case. How many hard top Civic 10th and 11th gen have you seen on road? Do you remember the Oriel Turbo variant Honda released for the 10th gen. Nobody bought it. Nobody bought the 1.6L variant of Elantra. You hardly see 2.0L Sonatas. How many Corolla Cross hybrid base variants have you seen? Has anyone even bought the petrol Corolla Cross? Remember the new base variant of Tuscon? Zero sold. For every Sportage Alpha on the road, you'll see 10x the amount of AWD variants. Do you know there's a non-Grande Altis 1.8 CVTi. Ever seen one on road?

I can go on and on. Base variants don't sell.

[ArslanNawaz]

Driven it, felt like a boat.
You might find it impressive i most certainly did not.
To me it's very underpowered.

[tech_wiz]

LOL, did XLI/GLI outsell Grande or not when both were being sold?

Did 1.8 Civic X outsell 1.5 Turbo X when both were on sale at the same time?

Did, Lancer 1.3 outsell Lancer 1.6 or not?

Similarly, there are more 1.2 City/1.3 Yaris on roads than their 1.5 variants.

I can go on with other examples.

Cars like Sportage Alpha or base Tucson you are quoting came out a lot later in their respective models' lifecycle. That's why you don't see them on roads much. They came at a time when interest in Sportage/Tuscon had already dwindled compared to their earlier years.

Even now, do you see FWD Sportage more on the road or its AWD version?

Even in markets abroad, for example a base S class outsells top S class trims.

At the other end of spectrum, base Camry/Accords always outsell top trims.

You don't compare "non-Grande" with Grande to support your argument. Compare XLi, Gli with 1.8 Grande or non Grande and you will get my point.

Not sure what twisted logic you are applying here but base and lower/mid models ALWAYS outsell top trims here and worldwide. Unless you talking about bespoke one off exotic cars where availability triumphs all other factors.

That's why accessories after market exists for people who want to cosmetically upgrade base trims to top trims. It exists because that demand in the market is HUGE.

[darthvader]

LOL, did XLI/GLI outsell Grande or not when both were being sold?

Toyota killed both variants, so you tell me what happened there

Did, Lancer 1.3 outsell Lancer 1.6 or not?

No idea man. That was 20 years ago. From what I remember, they were both failures.

Cars like Sportage Alpha or base Tucson you are quoting came out a lot later in their respective models' lifecycle.

Lol. Hyundai doesn't even list the base model of Tuscon on their website any more. Alpha has been out for YEARS now. I see it maybe once or twice a month on road here in ISB.

Even now, do you see FWD Sportage more on the road or its AWD version?

AWD, by a country mile. As a rough estimate, there are 295 AWDs on sale on PW at the moment, 156 FWD and 43 Alphas.

You don't compare "non-Grande" with Grande to support your argument.

Ji ji bilkul You can compare an XLi (a car specifically made for radio cabs, government contracts and other commercial uses) with a Grande, but I can't compare a 1.8L variant with another.

Even in markets abroad, for example a base S class outsells top S class trims.

Pointless comparison. But for argument's sake, do you seriously expect an S63 AMG to outsell a mid variant? I just checked Wiki; there are SEVENTEEN variants of S class.

[pwuser164163568474]

Toyota killed both variants, so you tell me what happened there

I'm not trying to take sides but if Toyota did not kill the XLI/GLI the Yaris would never have sold due to cannibalisation of their own product lineup

[darthvader]

This is Toyota Indus we're talking about here. They don't give jack shit about cannibalism. They go after money. If GLi or XLi were a huge money maker, they would still be on sale, just like the dinosaur 1.8 Grande still is.

[mgalaxy3]

I guess now we are venturing into debates that serve no purpose.
Let’s all calm down and take a step back. Back to civic xi

[tech_wiz]

He is just fixated on a stupid point to defend HEV sales on a Civic 11th gen thread and getting sentimental about it.

As per his logic Civic X 1.5 turbo outsold Civic X 1.8 Oriel because people want top trim. What we see on the roads is totally opposite. Majority people want one thing but buy what fits their budget and that's completely normal. Same goes for 11th gen. You see more Oriels than RS.

That's the quality of arguments we have here.

[sohaibshaddy1]

Top variant selling more is when the variant below has a little price difference. In case of Grande and its lower variant, it was merely 2 lacs. In the used car market, this difference then gaps even less that is why the lower variant loses more to maintain a gap to make lower variant more lucrative. Oriels and 1.5 had a diff of 1 mil, same is the case with H6 variants. Similarly for XLis/Glis as compared to Grande. So these variants have their own good share of market. Do not generalize every case that top variants sell more, in some cases they may do but in some they might not.

[daniyalcars72]

Toyota killed both variants, so you tell me what happened there

ill tell you what happened ..the 2nz fe engine which was originally made in 1999 or 98 was discontinued so toyota had no option but to discontinue the 1.3 variants of corolla secondly the so called dinasour grande still has better build quality and features then real stripped out civic oriel atleast almost similar to their rs and see the price difference. again i will choose neither and go for a sonata or a crossover like haval if i were to buy a car in this price range nowadays.

[daniyalcars72]

yep but the gli/xli were pretty bare bones and almost outdated plus somewhat underpowered ..the main edge was the space and comfort which is more in gli being corolla but yaris now has more features and better power to weight ratio..there was atime when base variant had more resale but after 2017 facelift altis 1.6 and grande sales pickedup same goes for civic oriel was most selling in civicx and now in 11th gen almost similar sale of oriel and rs maybe rs has slight better sale/resale value. Its about how much value for money or how much features a car has plus when prices get higher people see if difference is less between middle and top of the line models then mostly go for top of the line variant like in case of haval .

[darthvader]

I gave you an entire list of cars in Pakistan and you couldn't come up with a response to a single one of them. I gave you a point-by-point response to all your arguments. You couldn't come up with a single response.