1964 Impala Rebuild

[shani_798]

i think continental kit look nice on 64

[kitkars]

if u r antique car collector then ive one 1977 benz if u r intrested ?

[fouadhafeez]

i think continental kit look nice on 64

That's a really nice looking accessory, Shani...and a lot of '64 owners use it on their rides. But personally, I wouldn't want it to clutter up the lines of my '64.

[fouadhafeez]

if u r antique car collector then ive one 1977 benz if u r intrested ?

I've never owned a Merc (other than a 1992 300TE, for about a year).

My personal preference is American cars between 1960 and 1972/3.

But please...post some pictures, and we can see what sort of Merc you're offering, brother.

[AusI]

So...finally it's boiled down to a choice between two engines.

First up, is the 6.0L AlloyTec V8 4th Gen from a 2009 Chevy Lumina SS. This is a beautifully "new" engine with 18K kilometers on the odo. It comes with a 6 speed auto transmission, and is good for 362 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque, which should mean some pretty amazing performance. This is an all-alloy engine, which is based on the LS2 architecture.

The second is a 6.0L LS1 engine from a 2004 Chevy Corvette Z05. This engine has been tuned and dyno-tested at 585 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque, which is phenomenal since it's been extensively modified (rings, pistons, rods, transmission, and torque convertor). It's done a mere 6000 miles since the time of the rebuild. In addition, the alloy block has been swapped with the iron block, which means that the engine should be good to go for upto 750-800 horsepower if we plan on any later modifications. The transmission is a 4 speed automatic, which, with its longer gearing, should be very VERY quick, indeed. It MIGHT also come with a free Vortex Ram Air Induction system. The downside to this engine is that it's approximately 1.5 times more expensive than the AlloyTec mentioned above. The AlloyTec is itself, more than twice as expensive as a 3UZ, and almost 5 times more expensive than a 1UZ.

I'm actually in a bit of a quandary, here. The multiple choices have been narrowed down through a process of careful elimination to just two.

Will someone step up to the plate, and talk me through to the final decision to be taken, please?

First of all a great project especially with the decision of putting in a massive powered engine. I'm not a huge fan of big American cars but def a fan of the BIG engines

There are 2 things though.

1. No matter what happens or what ever engine you get from the 2 that you narrowed down, spend more money on the suspension than you would want too and there is a good reason for it. The car that you are making is huge and it weighs ALOT as well especially with that huge an engine. So when you decide to stop that car IT WILL NOT STOP because of its inertia, Im sure there are a few people who have pointed this out to you I'm just re-emphasizing the point. If you are going for a 500hp engine I would highly recommend cross drilled rotors as well. Expensive I know but will do you so much good than you can imagine.

2. Get a very good set of coilovers and other relevant suspension parts so that you can get grip grip grip AND GRIP. That much grip that you can throw the road away and your car wont slip. I have experienced 350hp cars beating 430+ hp cars with no problem just because the other one couldnot get the power down and results in wheeeeeelllll ssssppiiinnnnn and your clutch and plate going nutsss.

Im not sure wether the LS1 ever put out 400hp. The only LS1 engine that came that was close to the 400 mark was the LS1 in Australia. Im pretty sure what you are talking about is the LS6 which is the high end version of the LS1 which was used initially in the C5 corvette Z06 and later used in others.. correct me if Im mixing it up and if possible let me know the engine details and price, looking for a future project and this seems a brilliant engine.

All the best for the project from my side !!

[fouadhafeez]

First of all a great project especially with the decision of putting in a massive powered engine. I'm not a huge fan of big American cars but def a fan of the BIG engines

Thanks for your very detailed post. I'll endeavour to reply to all the points you raised.

1. No matter what happens or what ever engine you get from the 2 that you narrowed down, spend more money on the suspension than you would want too and there is a good reason for it. The car that you are making is huge and it weighs ALOT as well especially with that huge an engine. So when you decide to stop that car IT WILL NOT STOP because of its inertia, Im sure there are a few people who have pointed this out to you I'm just re-emphasizing the point. If you are going for a 500hp engine I would highly recommend cross drilled rotors as well. Expensive I know but will do you so much good than you can imagine.
   Duly noted. There's no way that we're going to leave stock drum brakes (which appear on the '64 Impala). We're going to use disc brakes, all round. As good disc brakes as we're able to. I'll certainly be looking at the option of cross-drilled rotors. I have a '65 Impala as well, which is running 300 bhp; and there's no way that car would stop without the all-round disc brakes that it has. So I agree wholeheartedly that this is something that MUST be done, rather than SHOULD be done.

2. Get a very good set of coilovers and other relevant suspension parts so that you can get grip grip grip AND GRIP. That much grip that you can throw the road away and your car wont slip. I have experienced 350hp cars beating 430+ hp cars with no problem just because the other one could not get the power down and results in wheeeeeelllll ssssppiiinnnnn and your clutch and plate going nutsss.
   Agreed. Power without control, is worthless. Wheels, tyres, suspension are all going to be geared towards ensuring that the car has as much grip as it has grunt.

Im not sure wether the LS1 ever put out 400hp. The only LS1 engine that came that was close to the 400 mark was the LS1 in Australia. Im pretty sure what you are talking about is the LS6 which is the high end version of the LS1 which was used initially in the C5 corvette Z06 and later used in others.. correct me if Im mixing it up and if possible let me know the engine details and price, looking for a future project and this seems a brilliant engine.
You're right. The LS1 has NEVER put out 400 hp, in STOCK form. This is NOT a stock LS1 engine, though. It's been loaded with aftermarket fittings. The alloy block has been swapped with an iron block, because the former owner was interested in modifying it to the 800 odd hp range, but had second thoughts later on. Its current dyno figures stand at 585 hp. It's being used in a Z05 Corvette.

All the best for the project from my side !!
Thank you, brother. I'll be needing lots of that particular commodity.

[fouadhafeez]

Some Inspiration :)

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/44623527" width="500" height="213" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/44623527">UNA FAMILIA // LOWRIDER</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/stephenbrooks">Stephen Brooks FILMS</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

[fouadhafeez]

"Self edited the rant, because it really isn't any of my business"

If we can't ensure that we're at least civilised towards one another on these professional forums, can we all at least show some signs of self-restraint and not turn this into one never-ending b*tching session?

[madhouse12]

"Self edited the rant, because it really isn't any of my business"

If we can't ensure that we're at least civilised towards one another on these professional forums, can we all at least show some signs of self-restraint and not turn this into one never-ending b*tching session?

what happened?

[fouadhafeez]

When you go about importing stuff from abroad, invariably there's a bit of hesitation in readily believing the seller / exporter. To be honest, this is exactly what I was undergoing, at the time of purchase of the LS1 for the Six Foe. This despite assurances from the gentleman who was importing the motor for me.

I'm happy to report that this 'fear' if it can be called that, has been allayed by the provision of the dyno figures for the engine

The peak power at the rear wheels (or rwhp) is 468 rwhp. This equates to exactly 585 hp (at the crank) at 5300 rpm.
Peak torque is 475 lb-ft at the rear wheels. This turns out to be 594 lb-ft of torque (at the crank), at 4500 rpm.

We're hopeful of getting delivery of this monster powerplant in two to three weeks, Insha Allah. This is certainly good news, and certainly allays my concerns about the motor we're getting. Aagey bhi Allah Ta'ala khair khairiyat farmaaye. Ameen!

[fouadhafeez]

Having gotten these figures, it's sobering to realise just how much of a challenge this is going to be. Safety, traction, brakes...are going to require some pretty radical modifications.

As a comparison, some supercars that have an engine output in excess of 500 horsepower are:-

Mercedes Benz E63 AMG.
Porsche 997 GT2.
Ferrari F430.
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera.
Pagani Zonda F.
BMW M5.
Audi C7 RS 6 Quattro.

[safeershah]

they dynosheet is from another car, chevy impala is a full size car, when you dynoed on the impala then you will get the actual figures which will be based on what kind of shaft u r using, differential ratio, wheel size etc

[fouadhafeez]

they dynosheet is from another car, chevy impala is a full size car, when you dynoed on the impala then you will get the actual figures which will be based on what kind of shaft u r using, differential ratio, wheel size etc

This is true. The output at the wheels may very well change slightly, when you vector in all of those things.

The engine's output at the crank though, won't change, regardless. I merely intended to highlight how pleased I was to find that there are people out there, who are good for their word. The bloke said "585 horsepower and 600 lb-ft of torque" and he was right. And I'm very glad for that.

Waisey bhi, all of this academic talk of power figures, and torque bands, and miscellaneous number-crunching is going to become fairly irrelevant once the build commences. Performance on papers is one thing...and performance on tarmac is another.

[safeershah]

brig sahab, this is the engine you get when money is no object restoration occurs

Nelson Racing Engines - Twin Turbo Daily Driver Series

[fouadhafeez]

brig sahab, this is the engine you get when money is no object restoration occurs

Nelson Racing Engines - Twin Turbo Daily Driver Series

Really cool engines. Great read.

However, I have a very big objection to parting with my money, Sir.

[safeershah]

sir I already mention if "money is no object " when its not an object you dont even think about it

[samvaid]

Foaud Saheb,

I link for Kitkars collection can be seen herehttps://www.pakwheels.com/forums/cool-classic-cars-latest/207995-mercedes-benz-115-123-126-140-my-collection

I've never owned a Merc (other than a 1992 300TE, for about a year).

My personal preference is American cars between 1960 and 1972/3.

But please...post some pictures, and we can see what sort of Merc you're offering, brother.

[fouadhafeez]

Foaud Saheb,

I link for Kitkars collection can be seen herehttps://www.pakwheels.com/forums/cool-classic-cars-latest/207995-mercedes-benz-115-123-126-140-my-collection

Thanks for posting the link, Sam. I think I'll pass on the orangey-yellow Merc, though.

[fouadhafeez]

no need for jugarh. companies like mechman and DC Power make bolt on fit alternators for most cars. since you are spending so much on everything, a jugarh here wont suit the ride.

@madhouse12

Brother, where would we find such alternators in Pakistan? Are they readily available?

[madhouse12]

@madhouse12

Brother, where would we find such alternators in Pakistan? Are they readily available?

not really but sometimes some do come up for sale from audio enthusiasts. there was a user by the name of @faheel that was selling one sometime ago. since you are arranging stuff for it from abroad, why not get the alternator from abroad as well?