Automobile Manufacturers & The New Auto policy 2021-2025 - Malpractices

[firewolf]

I don't know what bull crap Pak Suzuki accounts department is doing but for your information 'a sale' is only considered a Sale when invoice is generated, NOT on PBO. Invoice is generated along with engine & chassis number when a manufacturer receives a full amount. If a vehicle has initially been booked on a full amount then it's a different story.

Don't twist things to support your argument better talk to some FBR or Sales tax lawyer to get a definitive answer or if you know a CFO of any reputable firm. People are getting habitual of trying to win the arguments, no matter what, to satisfy their egos. Yes you have made your point in several posts and other people have their point of view as well, respect that and move on.

[firewolf]

If you are done with your rant than stop whining. You are hear to learn and share, right? you have already shared many times what you think is happening in this case. Now learn to respect other peoples concern. Problem is your are insisting too much and seems like enforcing your opinion on others and want everyone to bow down. Reading documents from FBR website doesn't make you a qualified lawyer let alone an expert on the subject at hand. Quoting just a part of puzzle doesn't make your point valid. Let others research themselves if they want to and also stop nit picking everything. Peace.

[firewolf]

You even don't know the difference in between a firm or a company, and associating a CFO with a firm.

Don't know if yo are for real!

Firm vs. Company : Although they appear synonymous and are often used interchangeably, there is a difference between a firm and a company. A company can be any trade or business in which goods or services are sold to produce income. Further, it encompasses all business structures, such as a sole proprietorship, partnership, and corporation. On the other hand, a firm typically excludes the sole proprietorship business; it generally refers to a for-profit business managed by two or more partners providing professional services, such as a law firm. In some cases, a firm can be a corporation.

[capsat]

101 and counting,

@KamranAslam what's your catch on it being into new car sales for very long. push it so this non-sense comes to an end.

[atifshakeel]

I have asked PSMCL for the CPR ( Computerized Payment Receipt ) or any receipt no for the sales tax paid to FBR against my invoice (generated on 15th July 2021).
As from the FBR portal i only found withholding tax of amount 15000 paid by the PSMCL on 30th July 2021.
I haven't found any entry showing the payment/submission of sales tax by PSMCL.
I have booked a vehicle on 26th May and received it on 12th July with invoice dated 15th July.
I think we should ask for written reply about the date/amount of sales tax submitted to FBR. Then it will clear many things.
Since 10 days i haven't got any reply about the sales tax CPR from PSMCL.
This shows something wrong has been done by the PSMCL.
Everyone please share the update of their efforts, it will be beneficial for other affectees.

Regards,

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Every practice of PakSuzuki in terms of tax deduction is unethical and I have now witnessed how they over charge and misuse their power as WTH tax collector. They have applied even 17.5% in some of the invoices, paid higher tax despite knowing change in tax regime and subjected their consumers to the worst tax fraud.

My colleagues are telling me that the day I got the supply, the definition of time of supply in that day doesn't apply. What non sense!

The only thing evident from the total disregard of consumer rights is that it is certainly a corrupt practice and can't happen without the canonivance of corrupt tax officers that are being pleased by PSMCL.

The behavior of PakSuzuki is certainly anything but ethical, sending post dated over taxed invoices to its consumers. We have given them our hard earned savings to fill their bellies and they don't have the audacity to even write a letter to their customers and explain the situation. Now they are rushing people to recieve the remaining amounts which were to be given back 2 months later a lil while ago. They want to end this dispute by mutilating the whole story.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Thanks for taking up the matter again @suneelmunj but I'm afraid you have concluded it again without counter checking evidence.

The fact is that if rate of tax is changed as per Sales Act 1990 the tax prevalent at the time of supply is charged to a consumer.

In May and June 2021, the definition of time of supply was when the goods have been received or when the payment has been made. However on 30th June 2021 the definition was amended by removing the part regarding receiving of payment. So if you had booked your car on 1st June and recieved your car on 30th June the time of supply would be 1st June.

But if you booked same car on 29th June and were delivered the car on 2nd July the definition had changed now time of supply would be 2nd July AND on 2nd July the revised tax regime would apply as per the law.

Mr. Haris falls under the category of ppl who booked and recieved cars before 30 June. They should be grateful for suzuki not deducting the 2.5% FED just because invoicing at Suzuki was late as usual.

However people who's cars were delivered after 30 June the same principle was wrongly applied. The matter is now sub judice as well as taken to various fora including Federal Tax Ombudsman. Inshallah we will bring positive news in the form of relief for everyone. I will still suggest @suneelmunj to independently search the Act and Finance Bills on FBR website and issue a clarification.

[procyon]

@abdulmajidqureshi sir kindly correct ur information. U r nt entitled to receive any benefit since u hv booked the car before 30 june 21. car july main deliver hone se koi farq nahi parta, ap ki time of supply ki definition previous year wali count ho gi.

main ek tax lawyer hon aur app ki posts parhi hain main ne. app law ko kisi se urdu main translate kerwa lo aur section 44 of chap 1 ki time of supply ki definition section 5 of chap 2 main insert ker ke parho:

"agar taxable supply per tax ka rate change ho jai to uss per wohi rate charge kiya jai ga jo time of supply ke waqat tha... aur app ke case main time of supply ka matlab hai payment ya product ki delivery, jo bhi pehle ho. aur app apni payment phele ker chukay hain"

agar 1 july ko time of supply ki definition change ho gai hai tu uss ka apke case per koi farq nahi parta. jis waqat apne car purchase/book ki thi uss waqat ki time of supply wali definition lago ho gi.

suzuki ki invoicing fbr se online linked hoti hai. jab bhi booking ki payment receive hoti hai wo fbr ke system main update ho jati hai aur tax return file kerna lazmi ho jata hai.

apni invoce check kero, uss main 4 pages hon ge. jis main se 2 pages verification walay hain. jab ap apni car register kerwany exicse ke pass jao ge, tu excise 4 main se 2 pages ko verification ke liye FBR ke pass behja ga aur fbr uss main se fed, with holding tax aur sales tax ko verify keray ga. ye sab cheezain check ker ke wo excise ko okay ki report bhajay ga tab ja ker apki car register honi hai.

umeed hai abb apna qeemti aur dosron ka fazool waqt waste nahi kerain ge.

[capsat]

the case may please be moved to jokes section.

an individual accusing a Multinational with billions invested and over 5000 employees on payroll, for tax fraud

without checking upon documentation received with vehicle. (Unless vehicle is purchased from black market by paying premium and invoices are in Somone else's name) for which buyer can always claim adjustment in annual tax return.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Thanks alot for your opinions, but I respectfully disagree. Since I'm an individual customer not a multinational enterprise (having invested billions) that can afford paid rebuttals on forums I think I will exert time on legal forums that matter.

I would suggest that you save your time by not reading my opinion and spend it on your own legal practice in Urdu translated law because your clients may need it.

Perhaps that is why I haven't posted from newly created accounts or changed pics on my own account. Whenever there is consumer that is suffering corporations will have to resort to solving issues rather than resorting to nasty rhetoric. Thanks.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Our complaint against conduct of PakSuzuki has been lined up for 28th August at Federal Tax Ombudsman Office. FBR has not been able to provide a satisfactory response. Hearing for rebuttal on FBR stance will be fixed on 28th August. Inshallah, will share positive developments for consumers who complained.

[procyon]

@abdulmajidqureshi sir, any good news?

[engineerjibran]

does the time of supply apply when automakers increase prices?

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Dear Haris @procyon and @suneelmunj. Thankfully due to intervention of Federal Tax Ombudsman and the law written as per common sense in easy English and wrongly translated by a few friends practicing tax law, FBR has conceeded to our point of view. @procyon here is the good news for translation to urdu.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Inshallah will post the meaning of disposal of complaint after hearing of FTO. I don't know where you are reading from while representing case for PakSuzuki but none of the 4 complainants have recieved the text that you have quoted including Furqan sb.

Since your case is different on merit therefore, I believe it cannot be clubbed with genuine cases of consumers. So I will suggest that you lodge a separate complaint on behalf of PSMCL as your point of view is aligned with them.

Nevertheless tax wasn't coming out of the pocket of PSMCL hence it found a soft target in the form of advance payment of car booking of consumers as is the practice prevalent in Pakistan. The matter will be judged on merit on 9th September iA.

[firewolf]

Congratulations! You did a commendable job on the said issue and remained persistent even though you got unintended criticism and backlash from few misguided people who had this "Dunning Kruger" effect problem.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Thank you for the appreciation. I thought we had a case cz I was going by what suzuki ppl had said, but when they deviated from their word, I took it to the concerned forum.

Lucky for us, sanity prevailed and FTO think we have a case too. Got all the advice/support/strength from pakwheelers in a whatsapp group we assembled from this post. Kudos to the author (@PWUser158444692918) , now we are awaiting favorable judgements from consumer court and FTO very soon.

[capsat]

please keep thread updated till disposal of application.

[abdulmajidqureshi]

Definitely will update after hearing of FTO on 9th September 2021. Unbelievable that Sometimes individuals accusing MNCs with Billions invested and over 5000 employees on payroll of tax fraud can have a case to look forward too!

[capsat]

yes so that the topic shall be moved to Jokes section.,