CVT Start Clutch Calibration - The AUTEL Way

[Xulfiqar]

@Xulfiqar

Yes they try to check transmission from their tool. I was standing in front of them and I checked two 3s dealership-same problem occurred.

Yes you are right that transmission in my car is hydraulic then 2 question arises in my mind that are:

1. How shifting is taking place and controlled if ecu is not controlled the shifting process?
2. How can we get dtc or faulty codes to check any problem in transmission for my car?

The dealers you are visiting are either idiots or are trying to fool you. As I said your transmission is hydraulic shift - meaning that is relies on a centrifugal governor to determine vehicle speed and a throttle pressure cable to determine driver input for shift hold timing. You are an engineer yourself - look at some blowup diagrams of the hydraulic circuits in the valve body and you will understand.

Your transmission only has 2 solenoids on top which control torque convertor lockup, they only throw one DTC if they go bad of the convertor goes bad.

Next time when you visit these 3s dealers - ask for their service manager and get him to demonstrate this testing on an exact same model car.

about how do these shift? - I believe you are well aware that automatic transmissions are in use since the 1950s - no ecu etc controlled anything at all - all was done by a maze of shift gate, throttle pressure, speed governor, line pressure etc. Your car is no different (except that Honda automatics are a POS)

[galant1]

The dealers you are visiting are either idiots or are trying to fool you. As I said your transmission is hydraulic shift - meaning that is relies on a centrifugal governor to determine vehicle speed and a throttle pressure cable to determine driver input for shift hold timing. You are an engineer yourself - look at some blowup diagrams of the hydraulic circuits in the valve body and you will understand.

Your transmission only has 2 solenoids on top which control torque convertor lockup, they only throw one DTC if they go bad of the convertor goes bad.

Next time when you visit these 3s dealers - ask for their service manager and get him to demonstrate this testing on an exact same model car.

about how do these shift? - I believe you are well aware that automatic transmissions are in use since the 1950s - no ecu etc controlled anything at all - all was done by a maze of shift gate, throttle pressure, speed governor, line pressure etc. Your car is no different (except that Honda automatics are a POS)

@xulfiqar

Very well and perfectly explained. I agree to you 110%.

From your whole discussion I able to know that if any DTC comes wither due to 2 solenoids, engine check light will on and code can be seen through PGMFI system. Am I right?

Also tell me about prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05-their main principle etc like these .

Either these prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05 are controlled-shifting etc by ecu or not?

Either these prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05 can be checked by scanner or not?

[afnan.bashir]

@xulfiqar brother i have a question that why there are two solenoids for tourqe converter lockup?

[rustam54]

@xulfiqar

....................

Also tell me about prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05-their main principle etc like these .

Either these prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05 are controlled-shifting etc by ecu or not?

Either these prosmatic transmission present in civic 01-05 can be checked by scanner or not?

If we talk about mechanical principal, these prosmatecs are like manual gear transmissions, with only difference that the dog teeth are now replaced with clutches (Unlike planetary set). The shifting is done based on instantaneous engine load, engine rpm and vehicle speed.

Shifting signals are sent by ECU to shifting solenoids along with Shift aggression controlled by Pressure Control Solenoids. Input shaft, counter shaft and Output shaft Speeds are monitored to check which one is not spinning the way its supposed to spin.

EDIT: Additional Content about Dynamic Shifting has been removed in light of post #111 and after revisiting basics of Hydraulic Transmissions.

[rustam54]

@xulfiqar brother i have a question that why there are two solenoids for tourqe converter lockup?

Like Xulfiqar explained in the Accord thread, these are On-Off type solenoids (Unlike variable engagement type). One is for partial lockup, allowing engagement of partial hydraulic pressure circuit. The other one is for complete lockup (full pressure application to lockup clutch).

[afnan.bashir]

Like Xulfiqar explained in the Accord thread, these are On-Off type solenoids (Unlike variable engagement type). One is for partial lockup, allowing engagement of partial hydraulic pressure circuit. The other one is for complete lockup (full pressure application to lockup clutch).

Agreed but what I cant figure out when to turn on which solenoid........ above 80kph i suppose full lockup happens......... not sure when to turn on the other one

[SER_GTR]

Hmm

Did they really try to test the AT from their tool?

Sounds like they were trying to con some money. Thev transmission in your car is hydraulic meaning there is no electric control. How do you expect this to scan something that's non existant.

The transmission is pressure tested from various ports which are for the various clutches and control pressure. It shifts from pressure differential between the speed governor and throttle cable.

The honda prosmatic can be interrogated . Yours is not prosmatec.

Sound Like Someone Try To Test Blood Pressure Using Ultra-SOund Machine :\ The IRONY...They Even Charge For It

[fairleo]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1470444[/ATTACH]

[rustam54]

Agreed but what I cant figure out when to turn on which solenoid........ above 80kph i suppose full lockup happens......... not sure when to turn on the other one

To answer your question, I have to copy paste an example. In promatec, the lock-up points vary with APP + Attained speed value (thus an overall demanded load at a certain point)

A/T Road Test

Upshifting in D

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 1.26 V
Lock-up ON 42−46 km/h (26−29 mph)

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 2.53 V
Lock-up ON 123−129 km/h (76−80 mph)

Downshifting in D

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 1.26 V
Lock-up OFF 41−45 km/h (25−28 mph)

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 2.53 V
Lock-up OFF 116−122 km/h (72−76 mph)

Fully-opened throttle
Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 4.50 V
Lock-up OFF 170−176 km/h (106−109 mph)

So you see, its not a fixed point. This has to be programmed as lock-up condition table. However partial can be engaged slightly below full lock-up.

[rustam54]

Yup. Its the same 1KR-FE with K41 transmission.

Please refer to below post for your query.

LINK

[fairleo]

engine code plate of 2006 passo

[afnan.bashir]

To answer your question, I have to copy paste an example. In promatec, the lock-up points vary with APP + Attained speed value (thus an overall demanded load at a certain point)

A/T Road Test

Upshifting in D

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 1.26 V
Lock-up ON 42−46 km/h (26−29 mph)

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 2.53 V
Lock-up ON 123−129 km/h (76−80 mph)

Downshifting in D

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 1.26 V
Lock-up OFF 41−45 km/h (25−28 mph)

Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 2.53 V
Lock-up OFF 116−122 km/h (72−76 mph)

Fully-opened throttle
Accelerator pedal position sensor A voltage: 4.50 V
Lock-up OFF 170−176 km/h (106−109 mph)

So you see, its not a fixed point. This has to be programmed as lock-up condition table. However partial can be engaged slightly below full lock-up.

Lockups are for crusing they are not meant for acceleration or de-acceleration

[rustam54]

Lockups are for crusing they are not meant for acceleration or de-acceleration

Agreed for Hydraulic Transmissions as per post #111.

The case is however different for newer electronic controlled transmissions

In the manual that I quoted above, the lock-up can engage in all gears when in D.

In D3, it engages only in 3rd gear. It does not engage in 2 or 1.

[Xulfiqar]

Governor type is also dynamic. It fights the throttle pressure valve. But for lockup there is a set speed that allows the function.

[rustam54]

Governor type is also dynamic. It fights the throttle pressure valve. But for lockup there is a set speed that allows the function.

Hmmmm. Duly noted and correction done in respective posts.

[Xulfiqar]

In hydraulic the lockup function is dependant on throttle pressure (load) compared to governor pressure..

E.g full throttle kickdown will disengage lock up. Partial position demanding high torque will disengage lockup. a speedy cruise becomes annoying. Unless its a variable lockup convert.

[Xulfiqar]

Yeh naye aatometik ghear dimaagh ki lassi kardetay hain

[afnan.bashir]

@rustam54 well my transmission is old non USDM F22B tranny mounted on F18B with every single thing hydraulic other than TCC Solenoid assembly......... yeh be hydraulic ker dete to zindage asan ho jate. Rite now i have two buttons for them i Manually handle them. Some time i am also able to engage full lockup at 60 kph when i cruise.

Seems great to have 1.5k rpm and you are cruising at some 60kph , however figure changes when i step up. at 3k RPM im probably at 120 or so

[rustam54]

@rustam54 well my transmission is old non USDM F22B tranny mounted on F18B with every single thing hydraulic other than TCC Solenoid assembly......... yeh be hydraulic ker dete to zindage asan ho jate. Rite now i have two buttons for them i Manually handle them. Some time i am also able to engage full lockup at 60 kph when i cruise.

Seems great to have 1.5k rpm and you are cruising at some 60kph , however figure changes when i step up. at 3k RPM im probably at 120 or so

To ease your life.

Making Electronics: OBD-II USB adapter to Bluetooth adapter hack

and instead of the Blutooth module, use a DIY controller setup. Tell you what, get me a spare ELM and I shall help you out with rest of the circuitry.

Here, it shows how easy the comms is

http://www.imsolidstate.com/archives/977

[afnan.bashir]

To ease your life.

Making Electronics: OBD-II USB adapter to Bluetooth adapter hack

and instead of the Blutooth module, use a DIY controller setup. Tell you what, get me a spare ELM and I shall help you out with rest of the circuitry.

Here, it shows how easy the comms is

ELM327 emulator » imsolidstate

Custom Controller is no big deal. I have been playing with Atmega and Pic 16F and 18 F since 2008. I also have ELM with me.

Problem is that When ELM would be used for TCC it would not work for diagnostics at same time. What solution do you suggest. By the way i have elm with Neela Dant....... bluetooth