Electric / Hybrid / FCV / Multi Fuel Vehicles

[blueazure]

typical anti EV arguments, method of replies ,

1, attack the messenger,

1. we dont have electricity in pakistan, we are in the dark ages, stop shilling EVs pl

2. EVs have a steering axle and a diff which breaks down each time u hit a pot hole.

1, attack the messenger,

this is again typical of an about-to-be-extinct dinosaur inertial mentality when you are impervious to change just for the sake of it , or just because your favorite , industry 2.0 IC engine based tech is getting obsolete. I cannot blame this mentality since its mostly biological, we humans generally resent change and are resistant to something which belittles our ideals, something that earns us a living .

fact is.,,

EVs are being massively adopted all over the world. UK will be EV and hybrid only by 2025, france will kill diesel by 2030 .

EV charging infrastructure can be easily implemented by retrofitting existing petrol stations. ( home charging supplment, )

variety of EVs in market, range performance,charging times are getting better

most ppl who own them are overall satisfied ,( reviews can be read online )

there are atleast half a dozen car companies in the EV business besides tesla

^^ the above facts can be verified easily,

2 . we dont have electricty in pakistan ?

fact is,

pakistan has mostly curbed electricity shortfall, i get 22 hrs of stable electricity in lahore.and to the muppet who is sitting 6000 miles away in US asking me to recommend properties in pakistan , hes can come here and see for himself.

govt has imposed ban on all new power projects , now when electricity crisis is mostly over

https://fp.brecorder.com/2018/02/20180219345375/

1. potholes ?

i can only laugh at this,,, and the intellect of the gentleman who calls himself an enclypedia of vehicles

[blueazure]

a tesla hit a road side protection belt in austria and caught fire.

the fire crew was well trained in handling EV fires and curbed it easily

to the muppet who is scared of Batteries, pl watch this,,

[blueazure]

i work in the power industry and have experience of hydel, wind and transmission line projects in pakistan.. i have worked with General electric , Alstom and was involved in the upgrade of national power control centre. i can claim with certainty that pakistan's national grid system is perfectly fine (if not the best in the world ) and is capable to handle the demands ( peak and off peak ) . we do have certain issues like grid instability, bijli chori and billing etc but overall the system is well designed and managed,

LESCO is even working on smart grids with SIEMENS and has imported reverse billing meters . ( you may want to research that )

,,,

keep listening to main stream fake news media otherwise !

[sydmushas]

Dear blueazure, even though you have strong opinions in favor of EVs (I do myself), I would appreciate if you (and all of us, really) turned down the harshness of our conversation.

Let's not attack each other and their opinions just because they are different than ours(like it's usually done in TV talkshows), but rather, let's have a calm and well informed discussion about these things.

Fighting and rudeness doesn't achieve anything.
It doesn't convince the other side and rather provokes them to be harsh back to you.

I feel I might have said too much, but this is not just for you, it's for all of us here.

This might be the most important and most controversial discussion in Pakistan autos (other than Civic vs Corolla )

If you go and see discussion of this topic for other countries as well. There's one side who's calling it all a stupid idea and the other who's praising it's brilliance.
Both sides try to belittle the opposite side and nothing is accomplished.

This message isn't just for blueazure but for all of us on this forum. Even though too long and cringey, I hope you can appreciate why.

Thanks

[Xulfiqar]

to Mr blueazure.

did I ever credit myself with any title on this forum?

lol, talk about typical pakistani behaviour, and yes you can be very well experienced in power generation, but you have proven to the full that you are extremely short sighted about transport structure or vehicles on a larger scale.

I also want to ask a clarification of 22 hours? - is this considered a day in Pakistan? are you guys on another time scale that the globe does not know about. Or are you implying that 22 hours is a considered a day in power supply or should I consider 22 hours power supply per day as a blessing from the masters?

Sincerely.

The muppet.

[Xulfiqar]

allow me to retort.

TYPICAL EV ROMEO response.

EVs are failure proof and require absolutely no upkeep. (Coming from a person who claims to have worked in a large scale industrial setting)

EVs in Pakistan are going to be a success because the first world is adopting them as the holy grail - well I didnt know Pakistan is the first world now?

Pakistan has no electricity issues - hmm, I wonder why personal power generators and online UPS are being sold everyday by the tens of thousands in Pakistan and are found in literally every average house in pk.

AND

you still believe a car has only an engine and absolutely nothing else? no brakes, no bodywork, no driveline, no comfort accesories? When was the last time you had steering parts replaced in your car (if you actually own/use one)

posted by: THE muppet living 6 thousand miles away.

[Xulfiqar]

a tesla hit a road side protection belt in austria and caught fire.

the fire crew was well trained in handling EV fires and curbed it easily

to the muppet who is scared of Batteries, pl watch this,,

Is this in Pakistan?

If you dont understand the Q - please scroll up and read my comment again, its in plain english.

If you cannot understand my posts, look up the old GMC delivery trucks from the early part of the 20th century and the baker vehicles - how come they were not produced later on?

REASON was - weak grid to support charge stations and lack of range which limits your movement and lack of serviceability - just like Pakistan.

if someone starts driving from Karachi to Peshawar in an EV with a 300 km range per charge, he/she will probably have to stop quite a ways in between and plug in their car for hours on end to get going again and get robbed too (best Pk experience - its a cherished treasure)

while an ICE vehicle can get going again in a few minutes.

Unless you can actually prove that charging stations exist for everyone in Pk and are cheap to use and are plenty on the main national roadways - your argument is invalid.

sincerely,

The muppet.

[blueazure]

muppet

ˈmʌpɪt/Submit

nounBRITISHinformal

noun: muppet; plural noun: muppets

an incompetent or foolish person.

Origin

1990s: from Muppet, the generic name given to various puppets and marionettes created by Jim Henson (1936–90) for the children's television programmes Sesame Street and The Muppet Show .

---

1. EVs arent replacing IC engines overnight, i never claimed that. yet an EV will certainly replace city car driving while a hybrid etc can be used for long leg journey ( UK is doing that ) . charging infrastructure is still to be mass deployed while hi charging times are still a present impediment

2. for the last 4 months now, i have uninterrupted power at my home, UPS has been never used. on the ground fact is that the govt has banned all new projects for the very reason that now the worst part of electricity crisis is over. i cannot blame you for being 6000 miles away and being ignorant at the same. a nissan leaf EV plugged in at a 30AMP 220VAC home receptacle at 11PM would be fully charged by 7AM and can easily manage the daily chores . or you can take it to a supercharger and have it charged 50 percent in 20 mins

3. the world has been using EVs for almost 7 , 8 years now and there have been no reliability issues as such . nissan leaf ,chevy bolt, VW e golf owners have reported satisfactory feedback with very rare bugs, this can be verified by anyone online. if i remember my Stress analysis course work, the drive shaft of a normal IC engine vehicle is good for 1 million miles.

4. please explain to me the technological impossibilities of EV charging infrastructure implementation ? a hi voltage 3.3 kV line can be rigged to any step down trafo and produce 660VDC for 3 charging receptacles, Tesla is doing that for ages now with no problems, unless you believe pakistan doesnt have 3.3KV infrastructure !

5. i still dont understand your fascination with electric battery fires ? what exactly is your point ? a fire fighting crew can be easily trained to mitigate it, the only thing different with the austrian fire was the crew using masks to protect against the toxic chemical fumes

[capsat]

from EV to getting personal !

don't start what you can not contain @blueazure

my area was never under load shedding during past 8 years when worst was happening around, being in a location which suffered 2-6 hours shut down till October 2016, does that mean all was well because we were connected over an exempted grid ?

dreaming is a birth right. day dreaming is about ambitions and being ambitious, however ground realities are real bitter and tough.

You may have worked in power sector from behind the desk in a glass cabin, lived in an load shedding exempted locality but situation is not what you Perceived.

POWER projects banned is political scam. Sitting Govt is twisting the project owners to utilize LNG which is sold at 1.75 times expensive then the actual landed cost.

do some actual field survey outside 30 km radius of your urban comfort zone seek the common man opinion about power shortage(s), perhaps you are confusing LESS load shedding with Zero Load shedding.

about EVs, no harm in dreaming about it, with collaborative efforts of Govt and the Automotive industry may be by 2030 onwards EV vehicles officially land into Pakistan, till then we need to keep fingers crossed.

and be civilized without any name calling !

[blueazure]

from EV to getting personal !

nothing personal here

don't start what you can not contain @blueazure

what does that even mean ?

my area was never under load shedding during past 8 years when worst was happening around, being in a location which suffered 2-6 hours shut down till October 2016, does that mean all was well because we were connected over an exempted grid ?

as i said, the worst is over, almost 10,000MW is in the grid thanks to these new LNG/and renewable projects while.load shedding in urban centres in down to 2,3 hours at a max .

You may have worked in power sector from behind the desk in a glass cabin, lived in an load shedding exempted locality but situation is not what you Perceived.

POWER projects banned is political scam. Sitting Govt is twisting the project owners to utilize LNG which is sold at 1.75 times expensive then the actual landed cost.

please dont yap just for the sake of it. LNG tarrif for the new plants running them is 7.7 cents / unit . thats way cheaper than any gas guzzler like HUBCO or Kelectric. so much so ,that wapda has decided not to purchase any thermal elelc post 2020 . regardless of the alleged corruption in the LNG contracts, the tarrif is 7.7 cents and has greatly reduced load shedding . this is not a scam, this is market free economics, for too long, thermal lobbies have robbed and co-erced power purchaser to buy expensive electricity and now the same lobbies are shilling the anti LNG rhetoric on fake news media!

about EVs, no harm in dreaming about it, with collaborative efforts of Govt and the Automotive industry may be by 2030 onwards EV vehicles officially land into Pakistan, till then we need to keep fingers crossed.

and be civilized without any name calling !

you are nothing but another shill for oil lobbies. IMC,Honda Atlas,Pak Suzki who also happen to be the biggest financial contributors for this forum and naturally, would oppose the importation of EVs that will drive them out of business ! any one can import a nissan Leaf Electric from a japanese auction as of today. yet you are most welcome to wait 30 years in your load shedding town !

first they ignore you

then they laugh at you

then they fight you

then you win

[Xulfiqar]

Mr Azure, You have again proven that you are nothing more than an insecure child who resorts to name calling when you cannot get your way (just like khadim rizvi did recently - I believe its a national pride of Pakistani passport holders to do that).

You are categorically claiming that a 22 hour supply of electricity is A-OK and thumbs up and is more than perfect and is awesome for bijli di gaddi

I have been living in semi rural USA since the past 8 years now and I believe I have only suffered an approximate total of 30 hours power cut (including when the ground floor of my house was submerged in flood waters of Harvey).

Pakistan having imported fuel fired generation units and 22 hour days (in the best of the best of the best localities) and a crippling distrubution system is somehow a good enough system to support a mass conversion to electric vehicles.. lol - And you have zero concept of transport structure, rebuilding, passageway taxing or even safety regulation. (I guess a muppet is better equipped to think)

I dont know which capacity you work on in the energy industries, but honestly if your thought process were happening in a real world environment, it will laughed off the table and straight into the bin, I sincerely hope you are not part of the comic bandwagon we see in the pk media everyday because whatever little respect I had for the common man of pk - you have essentially drained it.

Sincerely

The muppet.

p.s. - you never mentioned where can I invest some $$$ in real estate in PK where there is uninterrupted power supply without private backup in a residential common man neighborhood.

I'll even park an electric vehicle there (promise)

[Xulfiqar]

EVs arent replacing IC engines overnight, i never claimed that. yet an EV will certainly replace city car driving while a hybrid etc can be used for long leg journey ( UK is doing that ) . charging infrastructure is still to be mass deployed while hi charging times are still a present impediment

for the last 4 months now, i have uninterrupted power at my home, UPS has been never used. on the ground fact is that the govt has banned all new projects for the very reason that now the worst part of electricity crisis is over. i cannot blame you for being 6000 miles away and being ignorant at the same. a nissan leaf EV plugged in at a 30AMP 220VAC home receptacle at 11PM would be fully charged by 7AM and can easily manage the daily chores . or you can take it to a supercharger and have it charged 50 percent in 20 mins

the world has been using EVs for almost 7 , 8 years now and there have been no reliability issues as such . nissan leaf ,chevy bolt, VW e golf owners have reported satisfactory feedback with very rare bugs, this can be verified by anyone online. if i remember my Stress analysis course work, the drive shaft of a normal IC engine vehicle is good for 1 million miles.

please explain to me the technological impossibilities of EV charging infrastructure implementation ? a hi voltage 3.3 kV line can be rigged to any step down trafo and produce 660VDC for 3 charging receptacles, Tesla is doing that for ages now with no problems, unless you believe pakistan doesnt have 3.3KV infrastructure !

i still dont understand your fascination with electric battery fires ? what exactly is your point ? a fire fighting crew can be easily trained to mitigate it, the only thing different with the austrian fire was the crew using masks to protect against the toxic chemical fumes

We in Pakistan could cannot regulate a simple safety mandate for cheap generic vehicles and you are claiming that we can regulate an entire new kind of fuel for vehicles. LOL

The world living in 1st world urban cities are using EVs - last I checked - None of Pakistani cities count. Unless you are also claiming that pk cities has all infrastructure of 1st world urban cities.

Stress analysis of a driveshaft is good for what here? - how about stress analysis for electric fuelled passenger car suspension and steer components which suddenly faced a sharp speed breaker or sharp pothole in a road.

Technologically nothing is impossible - I say every building rooftop in Pk should have solar power panels, every home in Pk should get uninteruppted clean drinking water without assistance of private storage and pumping. Every primary school should have a grand infrastructure and airconditioning/heating and meals so children are not forced into day labour. Every school should have masters qualified teachers and license/training to teach.

Technologically its possible - are you willing to foot the bill and actually do it?? thats the problem.

So instead of name calling, remove the rosy glasses and then look at the problem.

Speaking of fires - have you witnessed a runaway battery fire in a public setting?

[Xulfiqar]

btw - my point posted above of how moronic we green passport holders are is proven by the collective writing of this thread.

and I still didnt get an answer that 22 hours is considered a day in Pakistan now?

[blueazure]

1. you are a child . All green Pass port holders are morons . i live in a trailer in semi rural US 6000 miles away , that makes me better than you. even if i talk senseless!

2. pakistan is a slum village where there is no electricity to charge EVs.

3. battery fires will destroy the whole neighborhood. it will kill the fire man and anyone who goes near it

4. an EV will break over a pot hole ( the Muppet stilll thinks a stress analysis of a drive shaft that is good for 1 million KM is not applicable here! god bless brigadier rehman at college of EME NUST , mechanics of material course work,)

5. i want to buy a property in Pakistan to open my drive shaft repair shop

---

^^

the only anti EV arguments on this thread so far.... the readers are left to judge themselves

---

can we get back to meaningful discussion please ?

[capsat]

meaningful discussion please

the responsibility of a sitting government is to provide fresh drinking water, basic immunization and basic education to the citizens in the remotest of corners of the country. Railways to be laid up & expansion before planning to build roadways for urban rural connection, movement of crop and raw material across the cottage industries. Mega Industries be allowed for setup in rural areas for local employment to curtail upon mass migration over burdening the metro city infrastructures.... ..

please share your view on it.

[blueazure]

fresh drinking water :-

serious problem in pakistan, depleting water tables , rising population, india blocking our waters, water wars not a fiction anymore .

basic immunization : -

is available in all govt hospitals for free. the vaccine course is through and the quality is ok ( if not the best ) . i just had my son vaccinated from CMH , all for free

basic education ; -

60 percent literacy rate, govt schools in sindh are non existant , fractured education policy, no single system , ( o levels , metric, madrassah ) .
universites are OK though. if not the best in the world

railways :-

is functional , under massive upgrade via CPEC funds, railway deficits are going down, new lines are planned

movement of crop and materials ;-

overall road infrastructure in pakistan is fine and is being expanded. there are no food shortages in the country given transport hurdles

mega industries setup ;-

not doing OK here, textile and cement under pressure given weak ruppe, cheap chinese imports are killing us ( a global problem ) . no thorough 5 year plans here. no discussion / plans for smart economy , industry 4.0 etc. our scientific base is zero. brain drain

migration to cities ; -

another global problem. we are no different

---

please tell me how the above are an impediment to EVs in pakistan ?

[memad]

I will try to drive my EV from Khi to Peshawar by mounting a 7.5 kva genny under the hood, Output connected to the EV charging port.

[blueazure]

to add,,

the fastest growing consumer millennials , massive e commerce demand . Next 11 emerging market

200 million population, mostly young ,, is a gold mine for any business

an expanding middle class, generally well informed,

a generally OK internet / telco/ infrastructure .4G country .

nuclear weapons, ? a well oiled, centralized, powerful military that has kept the country cohesive till now ,,

[blueazure]

Tesla X Road Trip Across the USA – Tesla Love – Medium

[Xulfiqar]

you are a child . All green Pass port holders are morons . i live in a trailer in semi rural US 6000 miles away , that makes me better than you. even if i talk senseless!
pakistan is a slum village where there is no electricity to charge EVs.
battery fires will destroy the whole neighborhood. it will kill the fire man and anyone who goes near it
an EV will break over a pot hole ( the Muppet stilll thinks a stress analysis of a drive shaft that is good for 1 million KM is not applicable here! god bless brigadier rehman at college of EME NUST , mechanics of material course work,)
i want to buy a property in Pakistan to open my drive shaft repair shop

^^

the only anti EV arguments on this thread so far.... the readers are left to judge themselves

can we get back to meaningful discussion please ?

Dear Pakistani passport holder,,

meaningful discussion?.. I think you have proven that the current gen millenial Pakistani citizens are lost in the translation of meaningful. e.g. you didnt reply to me about the 22 hour day I asked about or vehicular regulation and taxation - all I read is that xulfiqar is an f'ing moronic, short sighted trailer trash lunatic over and again - I have yet to read ONE single supporting statement from your side. - e.g. you claimed that the power shortage in pk has been overcome - I asked how when literally all industries and residential users rely on private generators, you reply that xulfiqar is a moron, When asked about moving parts of a car, you reply that xulfiqar is a moron and present a stale obsolete and useless stress test of a driveshaft (its been done billions of times by transmission manufacturers a billion times better than NUST could dream of)

opening up a driveshaft repair shop to deal in the weakest currency called PKR is as useful as a zit on a toad.. And you know it for a fact that you cannot point me to ONE SINGULAR property in Pk where basic amenities are provided non stop without private assistance.

I asked what of the missing transport infrastructure - in reply I read, xulfiqar is a moron, (its getting pretty stale to be honest)

sincerely

The Muppet living in trailer. 6000 miles to the left of Hazrat Blue Azure

p.s.

Dont further tarnish your own image further, its already rotten and you are cementing that fact by name calling and crying like a toddler and launching personal attacks