German Shepherd

[Ravager]

Army Brat is a new term for me at least. Stop being army brats and try being normal person.

Mamu zindagi mai boht kuch pehli bar hota hai
Anyway it means son of an army officer. Instead of writing the whole thing and proudly saying "my father was in the army and i grew up in the army" we use smaller more subtle and appropriate term. Army brat. Just two words. Although we are perfectly normal human beings. Not trying to give someone an inferiority complex ap tau offend hi ho gaye bhai

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[ali051214]

Another reason to get a GSD.
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Most Definitly

[yoCynic]

Mamu zindagi mai boht kuch pehli bar hota hai
Anyway it means son of an army officer. Instead of writing the whole thing and proudly saying "my father was in the army and i grew up in the army" we use smaller more subtle and appropriate term. Army brat. Just two words. Although we are perfectly normal human beings. Not trying to give someone an inferiority complex ap tau offend hi ho gaye bhai

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I am not at all offeneded, I was just pointing out that do not coin terms which eventually result in degrading the institution like Army.

[supereagle]

Sir what you are referring to are the wo processes
1. Crossing over
2. Independent assortment
Both processes result in mixing of genetic material during meiosis.
I am from the medical field i understand genetics.

Mohtaram Ravager Sahib,
You missed out on one thing: Mutation. Sometimes corrections have to be made.

Regards.

[shairkoh]

what about this pup? quality and price plz?

[Ravager]

Mohtaram Ravager Sahib,
You missed out on one thing: Mutation. Sometimes corrections have to be made.

Regards.

Mutations are rare and unpredictable. If we go into its detail then we will have to discus the p53 guardian of the genome TNF and other factors.
Exceptions dont fit the general equation.
If we consider mutation we then have to consider evolution too
Even great scientists dont yet know exactly how genetics work. Its hit and trial but the general rule of 'apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is used.
Another factor is inbreeding which results in depression of genetic pool.

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[Ravager]

I am not at all offeneded, I was just pointing out that do not coin terms which eventually result in degrading the institution like Army.

Trust me this is the last thing that will degrade our army. They are doing it themselves.

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[ali051214]

Oh ho, nich Information coming out from both ; Brother @Ravager & respected Sir @supereagle
Please also guide me if i want a GSD , you guys common Guide me, if you own kennels here in RWP/ISL , or know some.
I need both of your Guidence so i can plan a purchase & set my Pockets n strt Savin accordingly.
Regards

[ali051214]

Trust me this is the last thing that will degrade our army. They are doing it themselves.

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Oh , you being an Army Brat then why so much like Not liking our institution & my this comment Certainly does not mean that 1 should not Critisize or point out loop holes in a System. its good, do point out so they can be overcomed. but why you feel so Displeased ??

[shairkoh]

please tell me about this pup,???? what about it,s quality?

[Ravager]

Oh , you being an Army Brat then why so much like Not liking our institution & my this comment Certainly does not mean that 1 should not Critisize or point out loop holes in a System. its good, do point out so they can be overcomed. but why you feel so Displeased ??

I am a neutral person i support army in certain situations and certain things displease me.

Anyway keep minimum 40k in mind for a non ped gsd pup of good quality.

Remember rule of the thumb. You get what you pay for. I can refer you to a guy in okara he has nice GSD pups at the moment.
I have had bitter experiences with kennels in pindi so i wont refer you to them.

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[Ravager]

please tell me about this pup,???? what about it,s quality?

Its very hard to judge a puppy this age ny a single picture.
But i can see his muzzle is very lightly pigmented. Should be darker at this age.

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[ali051214]

I am a neutral person i support army in certain situations and certain things displease me.

Anyway keep minimum 40k in mind for a non ped gsd pup of good quality.

Remember rule of the thumb. You get what you pay for. I can refer you to a guy in okara he has nice GSD pups at the moment.
I have had bitter experiences with kennels in pindi so i wont refer you to them.

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Neutral is good, one should be
Alrite Bro, i have got the $ idea , InshAllah in coming months when i will be needing one, will keep That okara Guy you reffered on top in ma Mind

[shairkoh]

Its very hard to judge a puppy this age ny a single picture.
But i can see his muzzle is very lightly pigmented. Should be darker at this age.

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so what it,s means sir?
good ?

[supereagle]

Mutations are rare and unpredictable. If we go into its detail then we will have to discus the p53 guardian of the genome TNF and other factors.
Exceptions dont fit the general equation.
If we consider mutation we then have to consider evolution too
Even great scientists dont yet know exactly how genetics work. Its hit and trial but the general rule of 'apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is used.
Another factor is inbreeding which results in depression of genetic pool.

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Bhai Jaan Ravager,
Mutations do occur and are passed to the other generation though rare. I'm trying to tell you the genetics of normal reproduction which does not include apoptosis or tumor regression where TNFs or p53 come into play as you have put it. Just go into details and you will get a good explanation from me. TNFs and p53 have got nothing to do with genetics of reproduction rather they are exclusively covered by the field of Immunology.

I'm trying to explain to you the 'good' mutation that may be beneficial for any breed. They do occur but are rare whereas TNF and p53 are always at work to protect us.

Regards.

[supereagle]

Thankyou so much Sir for such detailed info & Sharing your Experience. now i am Really thinking to look outside Army Dog Centre, your Post has really Changed my Mind.
The reason i want a Pure Blood Line & even ready to pay For it is because of the Satisfaction, if i Pay less & get a mixed Breed or even 80% pure, to me i have wasted my Money.
Furthermore i definitly need a Male pup, and not a Young or Adult.
Also Sir, a Pure Blood Line would make sure that i can have Furthr Breed of it, in case any1 of my Friends/Family or even me need it.

If you can guide me where i could find some good pups, i would really be Happy, i have seen some good ones on Websites like OLX etc but i am not sure n Satisfied. Well i have 3-4 months, will search in this, hope i get something good.

Regards

Mohtaram ali051214 Sahib,
Here are my points about how to get a pure pup:

1. Get in touch with KCP (Kennel Club of Pakistan) and tell them you need a pure West German GSD bloodline and nothing else. They are stationed in Lahore. They have all the record of upcoming litters and will give you the contact numbers of registered breeders. Ring them up and have a good look at both the sire and dam.

2. Both the sire and dam have to be registered with KCP to add value to your female pup. Get your papers when you buy the pup and then you can breed your female when she grows up. You can also go to Army Dog Centre to breed your female dog. All studs at Army Dog Centre are registered with KCP.

3. Try to get a female and then you can breed it with beautiful pups.

4. Remember, it is the documentation of an animal which adds real value to it. Check the papers of both the sire and dam if they are 100% West German bloodline.

5. I'm a real GSD enthusiast. The other two breeds I like are Dobermans and Rottweilers.

Regards.

[Ravager]

Bhai Jaan Ravager,
Mutations do occur and are passed to the other generation though rare. I'm trying to tell you the genetics of normal reproduction which does not include apoptosis or tumor regression where TNFs or p53 come into play as you have put it. Just go into details and you will get a good explanation from me. TNFs and p53 have got nothing to do with genetics of reproduction rather they are exclusively covered by the field of Immunology.

I'm trying to explain to you the 'good' mutation that may be beneficial for any breed. They do occur but are rare whereas TNF and p53 are always at work to protect us.

Regards.

Mutation occurs due to slacking of the factors that are there to keep a check on the genetic library.
Everyday billions of cells replicate. Chances of Mutations are very high. It is these protective factors that counter check and proof read the genome and make sure the mutated part of gene is deleted and trashed.
When these factors slack then mutation occurs.
What you are talking about is one in thousand cases or even less. Which is really not worth debating in current context.
How many times have you seen mutation in dogs yourself?
The thing in consideration is the off springs of a pure show dogs will mostly (minus rare cases of mutation) be of show quality. That does not mean that two champion dogs will produce a champion puppy everytime. All their puppies will be of good quality and some will be champion material.

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[Ravager]

Mutation can occur during fertilisation or after zygote formation. In the former case you are right p53 and other factors have no role but in the latter they do.

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[ali051214]

Mohtaram ali051214 Sahib,
Here are my points about how to get a pure pup:

1. Get in touch with KCP (Kennel Club of Pakistan) and tell them you need a pure West German GSD bloodline and nothing else. They are stationed in Lahore. They have all the record of upcoming litters and will give you the contact numbers of registered breeders. Ring them up and have a good look at both the sire and dam.

2. Both the sire and dam have to be registered with KCP to add value to your female pup. Get your papers when you buy the pup and then you can breed your female when she grows up. You can also go to Army Dog Centre to breed your female dog. All studs at Army Dog Centre are registered with KCP.

3. Try to get a female and then you can breed it with beautiful pups.

4. Remember, it is the documentation of an animal which adds real value to it. Check the papers of both the sire and dam if they are 100% West German bloodline.

5. I'm a real GSD enthusiast. The other two breeds I like are Dobermans and Rottweilers.

Regards.

thankyou Sir for your Guidence, i am really relaxed now for i know where to start my search from as i have taken my 1st Step with your help. Already started digging KCP . will be in touch with you sir in future too at every step & update you

YES !! Dobermans & Rottweilers r 1 of the Best Guard dogs too & my fav, but i mentioned earlier that i dont feel like they are family Dogs, They surly are with proper trainning, But kids in my home kindda Fond of with GSD , so i will go for it.

[supereagle]

Mutation occurs due to slacking of the factors that are there to keep a check on the genetic library.
Everyday billions of cells replicate. Chances of Mutations are very high. It is these protective factors that counter check and proof read the genome and make sure the mutated part of gene is deleted and trashed.
When these factors slack then mutation occurs.
What you are talking about is one in thousand cases or even less. Which is really not worth debating in current context.
How many times have you seen mutation in dogs yourself?
The thing in consideration is the off springs of a pure show dogs will mostly (minus rare cases of mutation) be of show quality. That does not mean that two champion dogs will produce a champion puppy everytime. All their puppies will be of good quality and some will be champion material.

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Bhai Jaan,
Some mutations are compatible with life and others are not. Nonsense mutations will be taken care of by the checking mechanisms but they do occur. Some are significant and others are not. Some mutations are so insignificant that they will escape the checking mechanisms and will be passed to the next generation during breeding and they do occur. Mutations can be so insignificant that you won't 'see' them phenotypically. Over the years many such mutations occur randomly which are responsible for evolution.

Sticking to the point, offsprings of show quality dogs will not necessarily be show quality as you have put it. If you took a pure-bred male German Shepherd from Army Dog Center and bred it with a good quality pure-bred German Shepherd female from the same center, you have the chance of getting a show quality pup because we are breeding from the 100% West German bloodline which is the benchmark of show quality. Army Dog Centre dogs are from 100% West German bloodline.

You are calling Army Dog Centre as substandard but I don't know what standard you are talking about. Some dogs I do remember from the past. Arnold, Dragon, Apollo are to name the few who have fathered pups of my bitches. They were great dogs and because of that I had beautiful pups which could have qualified to go in a dog show. I never had time to take them there but they were beautiful.

If you take the working lines of Army Dog Centre and breed them, you will get show quality out of them if you select the dogs by their looks.

Point I would like you to understand: Army Dog Centre dogs are from 100% West German bloodline and if you breed this bloodline, you will get show quality pups. I have done it myself and had beautiful pups through the stud service of Army Dog Centre.