Inverter Type AC in Pakistan (Inverter/Non Inverter Dedicated Discussion)

[archon2001]

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[theboss]

Inverters are highly overrated in PW. Most people are not aware of "breakeven costs" concept. If you spend 25000/- more on inverter, and get 25000/- electricity savings from it, then its breakeven (still no profit). The real net savings start "after" achieving breakeven point (when the total savings exceed additional cost you paid). I believe the real breakeven points start after atleast ~10 years, since we only use ACs for summers 4 months only per year.

They cost more, then they save a little since AC is used here for summers only, mostly 4 months a year. It would definitely make a difference if ACs are used for like 8 or more months a year.

Solar panels are worth getting and their rate of return (savings) are fairly high and they cause more convenience too. But here too much hype about inverters. Inverter is best to run on UPS etc, nothing more than that.

Solar panels save normal UPS costs too, since normal UPS consumes 3X more electricity than normal electricity.

You are grossly miscalculated..most of the inverter AC pay back in 6-24 months depending on how much you run them daily..but for an inverter ac to save money it must be sized and designed properly..many people have installed 18K units in rooms where requirement is for 22K or 24K units..the result is that compressor is running continuously at full load..this will not save to any money....because power consumption if square of speed...so for an inverter AC to save you money you must size the unit such that average running speed of the compressor is 50% of it full rated speed...Most Japanese inverter compressors are rated for 30-120 RPS while the median 60rps is taken as the rating criteria...

[autophile]

Not four months only. In Islamabad we have to run ac for 12 months as in winters we have no gas for heaters, so we have to run it in winters too and from April-May-June-July-Aug-Sep-October we have to run in cold mode and from Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb to heat mode.

This is valid for entire Punjab and Sindh as well -- seven months, not three months we run our ac in summers.

[JustFarooq]

Not four months only. In Islamabad we have to run ac for 12 months as in winters we have no gas for heaters, so we have to run it in winters too and from April-May-June-July-Aug-Sep-October we have to run in cold mode and from Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb to heat mode.

This is valid for entire Punjab and Sindh as well -- seven months, not three months we run our ac in summers.

Yes that's the valid point mostly inverter ac have hot function too in it

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[s15]

If people here burn their amp meters hanging with ACs, and use their own brain and not suni sunai batain.

A normal UPS consumes ~3X more electricity to charge and provides only 1/3 of electricity backup in return. So it consumes ~3 units to charge and gives 1 unit electricity backup in return.

Appliances running on UPS takes almost 3X more electricity than normal electricity. So people can reduce UPS unnecessary load and save a lot more electricity than these inverter ACs.

Using electrical appliances sensibly, especially on UPS, is what saves a lot more electricity, not these inverter ACs.

[archon2001]

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[JustFarooq]

I installed inverter ac which is ideal for the room size, cooling is excellent, room temperature stays at 26c, fan speed increase/decrease as per set room temperature , I am getting same electricity bill like last year which I had non inverter ac installed. In fact more than last year, whereas running hours are same, I converted whole house lightning system on led lights in order to save electricity and removed 10000 watts stabilizer from main power supply but it's of no use. And we don't have load shedding in our area too.

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I think your AC is pot smaller as required what's your room size and AC size?

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[saadmubeen]

I installed inverter ac which is ideal for the room size, cooling is excellent, room temperature stays at 26c, fan speed increase/decrease as per set room temperature , I am getting same electricity bill like last year which I had non inverter ac installed. In fact more than last year, whereas running hours are same, I converted whole house lightning system on led lights in order to save electricity and removed 10000 watts stabilizer from main power supply but it's of no use. And we don't have load shedding in our area too.

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Kesc ka Tariff bhi to barh gia ha taqreeban 40% is saal. Where r u from?

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[theboss]

In very desi and jatka words I can say that

1.5Ton conventional= 1Ton inverter

Mean it as cooling wise or economy wise.

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This is a prime example of desi jahalat...a 1 ton ac is always a 1 ton ac because it means 12000 BTU..a ton of refrigeration is the amount of energy needed to melt a ton of ice in 24 hours...the extra capacity you are seeing is by the virtue of how inverter AC are designed (to meet rated capacity at 50-60% motor speed). If you run your AC continuously at the extended capacity (boost or turbo mode) you are causing a very fast wear of your compressor as well as high energy consumption...losing all benefits of installing an inverter AC...because power consumption is square of speed.....

[theboss]

I installed inverter ac which is ideal for the room size, cooling is excellent, room temperature stays at 26c, fan speed increase/decrease as per set room temperature , I am getting same electricity bill like last year which I had non inverter ac installed. In fact more than last year, whereas running hours are same, I converted whole house lightning system on led lights in order to save electricity and removed 10000 watts stabilizer from main power supply but it's of no use. And we don't have load shedding in our area too.

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Power in Watts is a function of voltage x ampere..when the voltage goes down..the stabilize simply pulls more amperage to maintain the common output..but high amperage is inefficient and creates waste heat..so as the voltage drops and amperes increase, stabilizer efficiency reduces and your power consumption increases which will have a net effect on your electricity bill.

I will tell you a gimmick but I am not sure if this is legal due to balanced phase loading requirement..but it should not be a problem because single phase is derived from individual phases of three-phase supply line and the loading is never perfectly balanced anyways.. this requires a three phase connection to work.

Get a stabilizer which is rated for 400-480V input (it should be a three phase unit with independent servo for each phase) and 220-240V output (phase to phase again). Three phase voltages in Pakistan are in the range of 400-440 depending on the area..this is effectively turn your stabilizer into a step-down AVR. And no matter how much the voltage fluctuates your stabilizer will maintain optimum efficiency and this will have a net impact on your bill as well.

And this is the best way to power air conditioners because you have created a two phase supply which is more efficient than single phase with neutral supply.

[wasf]

@theboss
Off topic but I have a question.we have 2 meters at house.Few days ago electricity of one meter turned off after storm.i called wapda guys,they came for resolving issue when I wasn't at home.When I came back I saw they have connected Neutral incoming wire of one meter to neutral outgoing wire of other meter.INCOMING=wires coming from main supply,OUTGOING=wires going from meter to home box.I didn't understand this I phoned them they told something in hurry I didn't understand fully may be they meant it is done for earth?? as there are 2 meters in a house.
Last time 2 weeks ago we had problem with same meter,guys came and they wanted to connect one meter supply to other but I was there so I told them to do.proper way from the place from where wires are coming to.meter.I think they like to restore electricity by shortcuts & don't like to climb on walls or go up on stairs & mess with bundle of wires.
Will this have any effect on running of meters?one meter is digital while other is old type.Will it have any effect on quality of electricity?voltage drops etc?‎

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[galacto]

On their page its says, it has 3.3 eer rating why they are claiming 4 eer ?

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Stars are different to eer. so anything above a 3.2 or a 3.3 eer is 4 star.

[JustFarooq]

This is a prime example of desi jahalat...a 1 ton ac is always a 1 ton ac because it means 18000 BTU..a ton of refrigeration is the amount of energy needed to melt a ton of ice in 24 hours...the extra capacity you are seeing is by the virtue of how inverter AC are designed (to meet rated capacity at 50-60% motor speed). If you run your AC continuously at the extended capacity (boost or turbo mode) you are causing a very fast wear of your compressor as well as high energy consumption...losing all benefits of installing an inverter AC...because power consumption is square of speed.....

WTH are you man?
R u serious keep look at my words again and think what I said.
Jesa naam wesa hi kaam (BOSS) [emoji13] [emoji13]

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[JustFarooq]

Stars are different to eer. so anything above a 3.2 or a 3.3 eer is 4 star.

There is difference between eer and seer

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[huzaifa.haroon]

This is a prime example of desi jahalat...a 1 ton ac is always a 1 ton ac because it means 18000 BTU..a ton of refrigeration is the amount of energy needed to melt a ton of ice in 24 hours...the extra capacity you are seeing is by the virtue of how inverter AC are designed (to meet rated capacity at 50-60% motor speed). If you run your AC continuously at the extended capacity (boost or turbo mode) you are causing a very fast wear of your compressor as well as high energy consumption...losing all benefits of installing an inverter AC...because power consumption is square of speed.....

1 ton is 12000BTU
1.5 Ton is 18000BTU

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[huzaifa.haroon]

I will post all my unit report on electricity generation via solar in last year iA tomorrow if i get time

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[JustFarooq]

I will post all my unit report on electricity generation via solar in last year iA tomorrow if i get time

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Insha Allah
I'll be curious to see that

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[theboss]

@theboss
Off topic but I have a question.we have 2 meters at house.Few days ago electricity of one meter turned off after storm.i called wapda guys,they came for resolving issue when I wasn't at home.When I came back I saw they have connected Neutral incoming wire of one meter to neutral outgoing wire of other meter.INCOMING=wires coming from main supply,OUTGOING=wires going from meter to home box.I didn't understand this I phoned them they told something in hurry I didn't understand fully may be they meant it is done for earth?? as there are 2 meters in a house.
Last time 2 weeks ago we had problem with same meter,guys came and they wanted to connect one meter supply to other but I was there so I told them to do.proper way from the place from where wires are coming to.meter.I think they like to restore electricity by shortcuts & don't like to climb on walls or go up on stairs & mess with bundle of wires.
Will this have any effect on running of meters?one meter is digital while other is old type.Will it have any effect on quality of electricity?voltage drops etc?‎

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The neutral is common across the entire grid..so both neutral of your meters, your neighbour and infact the entire mohalla are connect to same bus..it doesnt matter..but if they want to connect live wire from one meter to another..it could create a scenario of double billing...these WAPDA guys only get jobs due to quota and are not qualified to even touch eletrical wires..most likely they will create a big burn out..

[theboss]

WTH are you man?
R u serious keep look at my words again and think what I said.
Jesa naam wesa hi kaam (BOSS) [emoji13] [emoji13]

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1 ton is 12000BTU
1.5 Ton is 18000BTU

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My appologies i was typing fast while fasting...have made corrections to the post now.

[theboss]

If people here burn their amp meters hanging with ACs, and use their own brain and not suni sunai batain.

A normal UPS consumes ~3X more electricity to charge and provides only 1/3 of electricity backup in return. So it consumes ~3 units to charge and gives 1 unit electricity backup in return.

Appliances running on UPS takes almost 3X more electricity than normal electricity. So people can reduce UPS unnecessary load and save a lot more electricity than these inverter ACs.

Using electrical appliances sensibly, especially on UPS, is what saves a lot more electricity, not these inverter ACs.

Batteries are still cheaper storage method available so far. Many houses in europe charge batteries during the off-peak time when electricity is cheaper to shift load during peak time..if you have a good inverter and battery quality the efficiencies will be much higher..also efficiency drops as ampere increase..most of these run of mill 12-24 inverters are useless from efficiency point of view.

If you are looking for commercial grade efficiency from batteries build a battery bank of 150-300 VDC by connecting multiple strings and then link it to an inverter..most of the commercial grade solar inverters can take up to 550 VDC and carrier grade work in the range of 1000 - 1500 VDC. Reducing the amperes means increasing the voltage = better efficiency and less heat wastage. The battery will also last longer.

Air conditioning is the largest load on house consumption followed by washing machine and water pumps. BLDC motors (DC Inverter) are proven to save upto 40% energy if used correctly.