Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[Sharo53]

Bhai battery nahi chalay gi to parho *** kaisay. There is around 10 hrs loadshedding here so cant study without light

exactly yar.. load shedding is like on its xtrem now a days

[Sharo53]

Well pyro are no longer making any electrolyte I asked them on phone few days ago looks like I have to make some on my own

bro kindly tell me the location of the shop from where you will buy sulphuric acid..

[Thinking]

Experts i got a new UPS (mecury 2000) and got new FB 120 batteries.

I am unable to understand that my UPS goes back to AC mode whenever commercial electricity is available and does not go to charge mode.

Even tough as per my observation the FB batteries are of extremely good quality still is it possible that they do not get discharged enough thus does not prompt UPS to charge them after 1 hour of load shedding?

[talhawaleed]

@ a_n_memon88

Well, that I can’t comment if Pryo is no longer making electrolyte. Only reason can be that people won’t be buying it from them that’s why they must have abandoned the product because of economics. Someone needs to write to them and maybe they will start making it.

@ Sharo53
Since load shedding is on extreme ends so UPS needs a proper adjustment so that it charges the batteries within minimum time. Determine the AMP-HR rating and divide by 10 and then ask electrician to adjust the UPS according to it and verify the readings.

@ Thinking
Your problem is not commercial electricity. Even through batteries are good but trust me, it will go bad very soon.

Get the AMP-meter and verify the charging rate of these batteries. There can be two cases; either charging rate is very high( e.g. @ 20 AMP or @ 22AMP) such that UPS kicks the charge on the batteries to 14 Volts very quickly whereas batteries are still discharged but 14 Volts has reached very quickly so UPS stops charging the batteries and this values drops much below immediately after charging stops.

Second can be that batteries never reach 14 Volts and UPS stops charging the batteries. Cutoff voltage maybe set to 13 Volts, 13.2 V, or 13.5 Volts etc such that’s UPS stops charging the batteries once this limit reaches.
Get your UPS adjusted properly. I think your AMP-HR rating of your batteries is 120, get this verified and then divide the AMP-HR rating /10, which should be the correct charging rate for these batteries.

[talhawaleed]

REPORT FOLLOWING PARAMETERS:

I have created a Small Chart for people who think, their UPS is not adjusted properly. Please report your readings by following this chart

1) How many batteries are connected with your UPS system along with AMP hour Rating of batteries, time once these batteries were bought , Ratings of your UPS. Along with intensity of Load shedding in your region and backup time of UPS.
2) Voltage Across batteries terminals before UPS stops charging and individual batteries
Description: You will need to sit near the batteries before you feel that charging is about to stop, plug in your Voltmeter and measure the Voltage against each individual batteries and combined Voltage of both.
3) Note the readings of your UPS line as soon as it enters into loadshedding.
Description: Take your Voltmeter and plug it to AC line and measure the Voltage.
4) Take Voltmeter and measure the Voltage across the batteries terminals , individually each battery and across AC line after 1 hour of Load shedding.
5) As soon as UPS starts to beep before it is about to shutdown, measure the Voltage across the terminals of both batteries, individual batteries and that of AC line immediately.
6) Report the charging rate if you have AMP meter
7) Report the S.G of each cell using Hydrometer.

I will instantly tell you the problem with your UPS system or with batteries. Kindly report the reading in following format.

1) Quantity: 2, AMP –HR 150 AH, Time: 1 year, Rating of UPS 2000W, Full load time: 2 hours on full load.
2) Before Charging Stops: 28 Volts, 14 Volts, 14 volts
3) 255 Volts AC
4) 22 Volts DC, 11.5 Volts, 10.5 Volts, 235 Volts AC
5) 20 Volts, 9 Volts, 11 Volts, 205 Volts AC
6) @12 A
7) Second battery: 1250, 1250, 1250, 1240, 1260, 1200 First battery: bala bala

From this example reading what I conclude is

1) Ok
2) Ok
3) Ok
4) 2^nd battery is week.
5) 2^nd battery is week but flush may restore that.
6) Ok
7) One of the cells will be dead very soon if action is not taken right away.

[agm1pk]

No doubt an excelent thread of information particularly in terms of simple to use language which a noivice can easily understand. Congratulation !!!

I have one query can you please tell that now a days UPS/chargers are coming in very small sizes like homeage etc. that means they dont have transformers in it instead a chopper (told by a vendor) is installed in it. My question is that is Chopper(or watever is called) the exact subtitute for a huge transfomer , if we compare wat will be th best option in pros vs cons between these two.
Same 12 volt battery charger availabe in market are for these two type, will chopper emebeded, serve the same service and performance as of transformer.

keeping in view that choper based cahrger is cheeper then transformer based.

Seeking for a comprehensive reply with conclusion as usual you are demostrating in this thread .

Again appreciation

Thanks

[mfdarvesh]

@talhawaleed

Thank you very much, great effort.

[mfdarvesh]

No doubt an excelent thread of information particularly in terms of simple to use language which a noivice can easily understand. Congratulation !!!

I have one query can you please tell that now a days UPS/chargers are coming in very small sizes like homeage etc. that means they dont have transformers in it instead a chopper (told by a vendor) is installed in it. My question is that is Chopper(or watever is called) the exact subtitute for a huge transfomer , if we compare wat will be th best option in pros vs cons between these two.
Same 12 volt battery charger availabe in market are for these two type, will chopper emebeded, serve the same service and performance as of transformer.

keeping in view that choper based cahrger is cheeper then transformer based.

Seeking for a comprehensive reply with conclusion as usual you are demostrating in this thread .

Again appreciation

Thanks

When I was purchasing the UPS, same was told to me by the vendor. He was of the view that the performance of this transformer less inverter is better and also it is more efficient and light weight too. All imported Chinese and Taiwanese inverters like Mercury, Homage (once :)), inverx etc. are on transformer less model.

He was also of the view that noise of these transformer less inverters is lower and also noise of fans will also be lower.

[agm1pk]

When I was purchasing the UPS, same was told to me by the vendor. He was of the view that the performance of this transformer less inverter is better and also it is more efficient and light weight too. All imported Chinese and Taiwanese inverters like Mercury, Homage (once :)), inverx etc. are on transformer less model.

He was also of the view that noise of these transformer less inverters is lower and also noise of fans will also be lower.

Hmm but wat ar the technical advantages ??
hmmm if its the case that these choper based are better then of those transformers then why those transformer base are still in a lot of production and sael. @ talah & @xulfiqar expert opinion is awaited ??

[mfdarvesh]

Hmm but wat ar the technical advantages ??
hmmm if its the case that these choper based are better then of those transformers then why those transformer base are still in a lot of production and sael. @ talah & @xulfiqar expert opinion is awaited ??

Yes good question, why they are selling yet?

[Zainkh]

Basically concepts of Resistive and Reactive Load comes into play. Current and Voltage waveform for Resistive loads are almost same where as in inductive loads current lags the voltage waveform. Fans, Motors falls under the category of Reactive Loads and All local UPS have been designed for Resistive Load. So once you turn on Fans then this results in Lag behavior of Current Waveform resulting in abnormal behavior and noises from fans. Capacitor in UPS lines should do the trick but I have never tried and tested this so cant comment on this further.

I also had same problem where if i turn on extra light, ups works fine. But if i only switch on 1 fan, it doesn't work. I contacted electrician to check it and according to him Battery had carbon on its terminals. He cleaned the terminals and UPS worked fine even with a single fan. But after few days I have the same issue where I have to switc on extra light to make fans work properly. Can you please guide is it battery related issue or UPS as i dont think it has anything to do with battery. Ups is desi made.

[mfdarvesh]

I also had same problem where if i turn on extra light, ups works fine. But if i only switch on 1 fan, it doesn't work. I contacted electrician to check it and according to him Battery had carbon on its terminals. He cleaned the terminals and UPS worked fine even with a single fan. But after few days I have the same issue where I have to switc on extra light to make fans work properly. Can you please guide is it battery related issue or UPS as i dont think it has anything to do with battery. Ups is desi made.

It seem a UPS problem. I have seen a similar problem with desi UPS where switching on a bulb reduces the fan noise, interesting na ...

[shazi_00]

Bro really really nice thread,i reqd ur help..although u had a chart for understanding actually i dnt have amp meter /voltmeter.
I phurchased 170 AH Btry FB few days back and had desi ups 1000 kva from last 3 years, my max load is 2 fan + 4 energy savors , load shedding duration is 8 hrs in my sector, i hv an issue that in starting days ups used to charge the battery again in 3-4 hrs now it takes 6 hrs almost...please tell me what can be the issue and what meter i should buy to clearly ans ur querries...one more question should i buy a new chinese based ups so that battery can be charged in short span of time...final question how much time ups take to charge 170 AH of battery ..Thanx

[saadzzz]

4 those who really have interest in the Ups information got a link 4 u ......

Home Inverter

[agm1pk]

My query still pending ????

@talah @Xulfiqar where are yu bhaaaioo ????????

[talhawaleed]

Brother. honestly I am hearing the name chopper for the first time but in back ground of every electrical instrument there is a transformer which steps up and steps down the Voltage so that it may power various instruments within house to its capacity. I will look into it and will post my reply within few days.

Fans falls under the inductive load where Current wave forms lags the Voltage waveform and power supply in this case UPS systems are purely designed for resistive loads where Voltage and current wave forms are in phase with each other.

That’s the reason once you turn on the fans then you hear noises coming out from it. Electrical phenomena’s and rules are almost same but with little tweaks they have given different names to the same thing.

From my first guess, I think this UPS can handle inductive loads as well but cannt say anything till the time I am not sure and have not studied this.

[agm1pk]

Brother. honestly I am hearing the name chopper for the first time but in back ground of every electrical instrument there is a transformer which steps up and steps down the Voltage so that it may power various instruments within house to its capacity. I will look into it and will post my reply within few days.

Fans falls under the inductive load where Current wave forms lags the Voltage waveform and power supply in this case UPS systems are purely designed for resistive loads where Voltage and current wave forms are in phase with each other.

That’s the reason once you turn on the fans then you hear noises coming out from it. Electrical phenomena’s and rules are almost same but with little tweaks they have given different names to the same thing.

From my first guess, I think this UPS can handle inductive loads as well but cannt say anything till the time I am not sure and have not studied this.

Thanks you are back. gentlemen i dont know wat proper or exact word should be for that but they say it chopper (its like a coil type thing) they say this is advanced technology instead of using heavy transformers.
ok lets see that any china/ homeage type UPS are slim smart like desktop PC and me pretty sure that they don,t have a huge transofrmer in it so how they step up the voltage and works fine on 500/1000 watt and more capcity. i hope you would have get my point and query.
attached is the picture if it get properly attached by me
otherwise search on google for china based iverters and chargers ., its a small size box of 6inch*4*2 in sizes for (only charger 10 ampere charging current cost 1400/= in local market) ( only inverter 500 watt converting dc to AC volt cost almost same in local market)

Hoping you will get dominant on this topic too.

[talhawaleed]

Bro really really nice thread,i reqd ur help..although u had a chart for understanding actually i dnt have amp meter /voltmeter.
I phurchased 170 AH Btry FB few days back and had desi ups 1000 kva from last 3 years, my max load is 2 fan + 4 energy savors , load shedding duration is 8 hrs in my sector, i hv an issue that in starting days ups used to charge the battery again in 3-4 hrs now it takes 6 hrs almost...please tell me what can be the issue and what meter i should buy to clearly ans ur querries...one more question should i buy a new chinese based ups so that battery can be charged in short span of time...final question how much time ups take to charge 170 AH of battery ..Thanx

See, that rule of thumb is that if 170AH/20=8.75, this is amount of current that you new batteries will deliver for 20 hours before being discharged fully. You can easily calculate amount of load on your batteries that’s why after two hours they are dead. May be you are drawing @60 AMPS. 170AH battery can be discharged @ AH rating /3, @AH rating/ 5 @AH rating /6 maximum so this implies 175/3= 58 AMPS, AH/5=35, 175/6=29 AMPS but don’t expect it to last for 20 hours and obviously it will be done in 2-3 or 4 hours.

You need to calculate your requirements, then corresponding buy bigger UPS and attach more batteries along with this. Set the charging rate to Maximum in-order to harvest maximum time and load from these batteries.

Also verify your AH rating of your batteries before doing this math, you can find the information from manufacturers website.

[talhawaleed]

Thanks you are back. gentlemen i dont know wat proper or exact word should be for that but they say it chopper (its like a coil type thing) they say this is advanced technology instead of using heavy transformers.
ok lets see that any china/ homeage type UPS are slim smart like desktop PC and me pretty sure that they don,t have a huge transofrmer in it so how they step up the voltage and works fine on 500/1000 watt and more capcity. i hope you would have get my point and query.
attached is the picture if it get properly attached by me
otherwise search on google for china based iverters and chargers ., its a small size box of 6inch*4*2 in sizes for (only charger 10 ampere charging current cost 1400/= in local market) ( only inverter 500 watt converting dc to AC volt cost almost same in local market)

Hoping you will get dominant on this topic too.

Yes, i need to find out only then i would be able to comment on this

[bilalnoor1987]

Talha Bahi it was really nice taking to you on the phone .
will collect distilled water and after the operation is done i will feed back you by the results which i will get.
Thanks once again for Talking and guiding me .