Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[saadzzz]

Dear all,

I m so frustrated by my ups , i purchased osaka battery new but due to excessive load shedding in Lhr my ups battery back time wa only 45 min max with 2 fans. I thought that battery isnt working fine as heard a lot abt the osaka performance, by hook or crook i got back to dealer and claimed him that battery is faulty. So purchased the AGS battery due to its good performance but still facing the same issue.

Keeping in mind i have homeage 1000 va and checked it from the homeage service centre. They serviced it in front of my eye also checked its charging rate.

Plzz help me wat to do now as load shedding is still going on 12 hrs a day. Is my ups faulty or wat mentioning again battery is new Ags 165 Ah and serviced my homeage ups

Plzz do help me

[talhawaleed]

Dear all,

I m so frustrated by my ups , i purchased osaka battery new but due to excessive load shedding in Lhr my ups battery back time wa only 45 min max with 2 fans. I thought that battery isnt working fine as heard a lot abt the osaka performance, by hook or crook i got back to dealer and claimed him that battery is faulty. So purchased the AGS battery due to its good performance but still facing the same issue.

Keeping in mind i have homeage 1000 va and checked it from the homeage service centre. They serviced it in front of my eye also checked its charging rate.

Plzz help me wat to do now as load shedding is still going on 12 hrs a day. Is my ups faulty or wat mentioning again battery is new Ags 165 Ah and serviced my homeage ups

Plzz do help me

Get the charging Rate Adjusted to 15 AMP. Due to excessive load shedding, batteries are not getting ample time to be charged and end result is that batteries are being damaged. Under these circumstances makes sure, that charging rate is adjusted to its maximum value which is determined according to the AMP-HR rating of the batteries.

[saadzzz]

how can i check the amp rate of charging... Plzz do tell me.

Its been 3rd time my ups went under service from company

[asimm76]

A battery wala told me to put the A/C WATER (wastage water that comes out of a/c pipe) in all kinds of batteries

please suggest

[saadzzz]

@ asim dnt use the ac water as it contains contamination in it

[talhawaleed]

@ asimm76

These technicians know how to open things and close them. Most of times, they are able to correct the most obvious things but have no knowledge why we take certain actions and what’s the reason behind it.
He is a super Idiot, in-fact ask him he ever he has read an Article or can he read or write. Even then, if you want to trust his knowledge then go ahead. Do me a favor, try to collect some condensate and drink little bit of it or put this water in a pan and boil it till the time everything evaporates. See, what’s left behind.

@ saadzzz
Its fairly simple device, if you can buy something like this then you have to put the clips across batteries wire and take the measurements.

[saadzzz]

thanks a lot talha,

I just tried a desi ups which has fast charging i know it can ruin the battery life but it is charging my battery. My homeage ups sucks big time even after taking it to the service centre 4th time still having the same prob.

[ribbyun]

@ asimm76

These technicians know how to open things and close them. Most of times, they are able to correct the most obvious things but have no knowledge why we take certain actions and what’s the reason behind it.
He is a super Idiot, in-fact ask him he ever he has read an Article or can he read or write. Even then, if you want to trust his knowledge then go ahead. Do me a favor, try to collect some condensate and drink little bit of it or put this water in a pan and boil it till the time everything evaporates. See, what’s left behind.

@ saadzzz
Its fairly simple device, if you can buy something like this then you have to put the clips across batteries wire and take the measurements.

dear talha im att a pic of circuit board of UPS local made which im using,,,,,,,can u plz assist and tell for the betterment of everyone...
more over i had tried to adjust the amperes of ups through BATRY FUL knob,,,but it only controls the voltage,,,,i had asked from the electrician from whom i purchased UPS and as per his statement, he has to make certain adjustments in the UPS wiring only then the amperes can be controlled / brought down, as now the amperes with which UPS is charging the batrys is 16 to 18 amperes,,,,,so ur comments plz,,,,

[talhawaleed]

dear talha im att a pic of circuit board of UPS local made which im using,,,,,,,can u plz assist and tell for the betterment of everyone...
more over i had tried to adjust the amperes of ups through BATRY FUL knob,,,but it only controls the voltage,,,,i had asked from the electrician from whom i purchased UPS and as per his statement, he has to make certain adjustments in the UPS wiring only then the amperes can be controlled / brought down, as now the amperes with which UPS is charging the batrys is 16 to 18 amperes,,,,,so ur comments plz,,,,

Very Nice, I think in future I will have to upload few Videos and Pictures so that it may benefit everyone.

Only thing I was afraid of that not everyone should touch these variables as electricity is dangerous and I don’t want anyone to get the electric shock.

Battery Full: with your Voltmeter on battery terminals, once you assume that battery is about to stop charging the batteries. Adjust the variable such that once terminal Voltage reaches 28 Volts (Two battery UPS) then UPS should stop charging the batteries and this variable will control that.

Battery Low: sit near the batteries with your Voltmeter on batteries terminals once you feel that UPS is about to shut down and not enough charge is left in the batteries. Adjust such that once Voltage drops below 20.5 Volts then UPS should beep and shutdown.

I am confused between main low and fixed Voltage: Place the Voltmeter on UPS line and change the setting onto AC Voltage measurements. Once batteries fully charged then place the entire load on batteries and measure the output Voltage. Adjust such that once light goes off then output of UPS should reach 260 Volts and you need to adjust one variable such that once Voltage reaches 220 Volts then UPS should beep and shutdown immediately. I don’t have Voltmeter other wise I could have verified which variable does which job by placing voltmeter on it.

Charging Rate: there are three options with UPS from where you can change the charging current. there is one wire, lets address it by A and three wire attached to a clip with transformer. Basically this “A” wire is attached to one of the options on three wire switch. first measure the original charging rate by UPS using AMP-meter and then take the “A” wire out from first option and put it into second. Measure then charging rate and then take “A” out from second option and connect it with third option. Measure the charging rate and then see what suits your need.

I will try to post the picture later

[saadzzz]

Dear talha,

I checked with the clamp Meter the charging rate is too high. It was around 39 intially than dropped to 20 and so on my battery is 165 Ah. Isn't that too high to charge battery, will it shorten battery life?

[talhawaleed]

If you took the measurements properly then its way to high, Let me guess the symptoms,
1) UPS kicks the Voltage across the terminals very quickly to 28 Volts in return system commands its self to stop charging the battery and end result is a fake reading (batteries still in discharged state)
2) If it continues to charge then will boil the electrolyte and creating lot of hydrogen inside the battery which is very dangerous and batteries can even explode.
3) Cells can die very quickly if this condition has been prevailing for long time.
Should be set to 12, or 13 or 14 or 15 Volts maximum, which ever option is available in your system.

[saadzzz]

If you took the measurements properly then its way to high, Let me guess the symptoms,
1) UPS kicks the Voltage across the terminals very quickly to 28 Volts in return system commands its self to stop charging the battery and end result is a fake reading (batteries still in discharged state)
2) If it continues to charge then will boil the electrolyte and creating lot of hydrogen inside the battery which is very dangerous and batteries can even explode.
3) Cells can die very quickly if this condition has been prevailing for long time.
Should be set to 12, or 13 or 14 or 15 Volts maximum, which ever option is available in your system.

thanks i checked my ups after charging it goes in off state means if battery is full, the ups stops charging no symptom of boiling water (over charge). Can u plzz guide me u meant 15 amps or Volts and how can i measure voltage of battery i guess clamp meter cannot read the volts accurately..

[talhawaleed]

SAADZZZ

You lack few fundamental concepts. Please ask UPS technician to adjust things for you according to the formula I have explained earlier.
P.S: 15 Amperes.
Electricity is dangerous, once you don’t have knowledge then don’t play around with it.

1) These UPS have a PCB card which has many variable.
2) These variables can be adjusted using a screw driver
3) During load shedding the Output of the UPS is much more than normal electricity
4) Adjust the variables such that your Output Voltage should never exceed 265 Volts once batteries are fully charged
5) Adjust such that once output voltage reaches 223 Volts then your UPS should trigger the alarm and should shutdown within 10 seconds.
6) Adjust the charging rate such that you each battery should not get more then 10 A while charging.
7) If you have number of batteries connected in parallel then 10 AMPS at maximum should pass through each.
8) Slow charging is very good for batteries but if it is slower than this then you won’t be ready before the next load shedding.
9) UPS should stop charging your batteries once the output voltage of both the batteries reaches 28 Volts or 28.8 Volts.
10) During Load shedding once output of batteries (where two batteries are connected in Series) reaches 21.9 Volts then Alarm should be triggered and UPS should shut down.
11) This voltage should correspond to 223 Volts at output under load.
12) Always keep your UPS line separate from main line
13) Always test under full load so that you are aware about the maximum load that your UPS can take.
14) Your UPS should shutdown immediately if load exceeds the maximum load.
15) Now your computers should be safe under these configurations.
16) You will need a good quality Voltmeter and AMP meter.
17) Since chemical properties of batteries changes the entire year so you will have to check your tuning after every three months.

All these parameters are controlled by the variables present on the PCB card. Best is that you goto a Local UPS shop and ask them to adjust these variables according to the specification and see how they do it. Take a paper tape and mark each variable so that once you do it then you don’t forget it.

ALWAYS TREAT ELECTRICITY WITH RESPECT OTHER WISE YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE RESULTS

[dms664]

Aoa
from the last few days my UPS is giving a slight problem so thot to discuss it with gurus here.
I have two ups of the same brand inverex but they are not those small Printed Circuit Boards (PCB) based ups, they are slightly bigger in size and heavy as they got transformers inside. They give pure sine wave so I run my laptop, router etc on it and they do not reboot when wapda goes off.
I installed em in 2010 and till now ma sha Allah there was not a single problem.each one is 1000va. one serving the lower portion of home n other the upper portion.

2 phoenix 130ah batteries installed in parallel circuit with one and one 200ah Exide plus two phoenix 120ah attached to the second one in parallel.

It was all fine till now but now the one with exide + phoenix combo starts giving a problem that it runs fine on wapda regardless of the load and runs fine on battery also if load is less. say if there are 4 fans and 4 energy savors and two fans and two savors are active load it will run for hours n hours but if the 3rd and 4th fan is switched on after some time the UPS gets extremely hot and the shut down by its in built circuit breaker. after pulling back the circuit breaker to its place the ups starts working again and will work on and on if load is less till the battery get low.

This was the problem now the steps which I have taken till now .
1) removed the two phoenix 120 batteries from the circuit and only exide 200 was left but problem is still there.

2) thinking if something is wrong with the wiring, switched the ups of lower portion to upper portion and the suspected as faulty ups behaved the same on the new circuit also and the other ups ran fine in both circuits.

3) considering the weather an exhaust and pedestal fan has been installed for the ups system

4)the inner fan of the ups is working fine.

I opened the cover of ups and cleaned the dust from its heat sink with blower thinking if it may be the problem but no improvement.
I can live with it as its running good but if some guests turn up then it will be a problem.

Before going to the mechanic I am here to know what can be the problem so that I dont get ripped off.

Thanking in anticipation

regards

[luckyman1]

plz help me out.

I was using 1 battery( Exide ) with my ups . ( back up time 3.5 to 4 hours @ full load )
I have changed with 2 ( osaka ) ......same capicity. ( current back up 2.5 on 80 load)
Now i observe that back up time is less then before.

What may be the reason.

[talhawaleed]

plz help me out.

I was using 1 battery( Exide ) with my ups . ( back up time 3.5 to 4 hours @ full load )
I have changed with 2 ( osaka ) ......same capicity. ( current back up 2.5 on 80 load)
Now i observe that back up time is less then before.

What may be the reason.

Could be any of the reasons

1) Bad electrolyte in New batteries.
2) Maybe AMP-HR rating of new batteries are lesser then what they were before.
3) Maybe due to intensity of load shedding, batteries are not charged fully before it enters into next cycle of load shedding.

[talhawaleed]

Aoa
from the last few days my UPS is giving a slight problem so thot to discuss it with gurus here.
I have two ups of the same brand inverex but they are not those small Printed Circuit Boards (PCB) based ups, they are slightly bigger in size and heavy as they got transformers inside. They give pure sine wave so I run my laptop, router etc on it and they do not reboot when wapda goes off.
I installed em in 2010 and till now ma sha Allah there was not a single problem.each one is 1000va. one serving the lower portion of home n other the upper portion.

2 phoenix 130ah batteries installed in parallel circuit with one and one 200ah Exide plus two phoenix 120ah attached to the second one in parallel.

It was all fine till now but now the one with exide + phoenix combo starts giving a problem that it runs fine on wapda regardless of the load and runs fine on battery also if load is less. say if there are 4 fans and 4 energy savors and two fans and two savors are active load it will run for hours n hours but if the 3rd and 4th fan is switched on after some time the UPS gets extremely hot and the shut down by its in built circuit breaker. after pulling back the circuit breaker to its place the ups starts working again and will work on and on if load is less till the battery get low.

This was the problem now the steps which I have taken till now .
1) removed the two phoenix 120 batteries from the circuit and only exide 200 was left but problem is still there.

2) thinking if something is wrong with the wiring, switched the ups of lower portion to upper portion and the suspected as faulty ups behaved the same on the new circuit also and the other ups ran fine in both circuits.

3) considering the weather an exhaust and pedestal fan has been installed for the ups system

4)the inner fan of the ups is working fine.

I opened the cover of ups and cleaned the dust from its heat sink with blower thinking if it may be the problem but no improvement.
I can live with it as its running good but if some guests turn up then it will be a problem.

Before going to the mechanic I am here to know what can be the problem so that I dont get ripped off.

Thanking in anticipation

regards

See, I am not 100 % clear what you are trying to say but what I have understood is

1) Two batteries with different AMP-HR ratings have been attached in parallel configuration. Please Avoid this in future because charging rate for one may be higher and other maybe too low. End result will be, if one has been completely charged then for rest of the time it is being abused till the time second is not charged. Or one of the batteries will not be charged completely once you will be entering the next cycle of load shedding. Over period of time, one which has not be able to be charged fully will die early for remaining in discharged state for long duration and one which has been charged fully will also die early due to the overcharging abuse, it is getting. (Remember we have a frequent Load shedding)

2) 1 KVA UPS is designed to shutdown if you exceed the maximum load capacity. This is a built in feature and it should act exactly the same way. You should know the capacity of your UPS system and wirings should laid down such that Load should never exceed maximum Load for which it has been designed.

3) Obviously, you can add 200 AMP-HR battery with 1 KVA UPS as it will increase the backup time but that never says, that you can exceed the maximum load capacity, UPS has been designed for. That can damage the UPS internal wirings, transformer etc and this shutdown is a protection against this.

4) Bad Electrolyte can contribute to lesser backup time and early failure of Lead Acid batteries.

5) Anyhow all of the batteries being sold in Pakistan Market by Local Manufacturers are not designed for UPS. They are designed to provide maximum current for very short duration of time such as starting Starter Motors. Cells have larger surface Area but thinner for inside and can only be discharged till 80% before it requires charging again and die early.

Manufacturers don’t need to produce batteries solely for UPS( deep cycle batteries) once already people are buying truck batteries which die early with UPS systems. They don’t need to sweep the market once they already have a control over it. Their strategy is working, they are making money and consumers do not have an option.

[dms664]

See, I am not 100 % clear what you are trying to say but what I have understood is

1) Two batteries with different AMP-HR ratings have been attached in parallel configuration. Please Avoid this in future because charging rate for one may be higher and other maybe too low. End result will be, if one has been completely charged then for rest of the time it is being abused till the time second is not charged. Or one of the batteries will not be charged completely once you will be entering the next cycle of load shedding. Over period of time, one which has not be able to be charged fully will die early for remaining in discharged state for long duration and one which has been charged fully will also die early due to the overcharging abuse, it is getting. (Remember we have a frequent Load shedding)

2) 1 KVA UPS is designed to shutdown if you exceed the maximum load capacity. This is a built in feature and it should act exactly the same way. You should know the capacity of your UPS system and wirings should laid down such that Load should never exceed maximum Load for which it has been designed.

3) Obviously, you can add 200 AMP-HR battery with 1 KVA UPS as it will increase the backup time but that never says, that you can exceed the maximum load capacity, UPS has been designed for. That can damage the UPS internal wirings, transformer etc and this shutdown is a protection against this.

4) Bad Electrolyte can contribute to lesser backup time and early failure of Lead Acid batteries.

5) Anyhow all of the batteries being sold in Pakistan Market by Local Manufacturers are not designed for UPS. They are designed to provide maximum current for very short duration of time such as starting Starter Motors. Cells have larger surface Area but thinner for inside and can only be discharged till 80% before it requires charging again and die early.

Manufacturers don’t need to produce batteries solely for UPS( deep cycle batteries) once already people are buying truck batteries which die early with UPS systems. They don’t need to sweep the market once they already have a control over it. Their strategy is working, they are making money and consumers do not have an option.

Thank you sir for the kind reply. Now let me clear few points.

There is no problem of backup time.

The UPS can carry load upto 660W and previously it was carrying it happily but now it will carry half of the load it used to carry in past. With half load it will go on and on but exceeding than half it will get shutdown by the inbuilt circuit breaker of the ups and it will become very hot. After restart if the we reduce the load again it will go on and on.
Another UPS of the same capacity , same make, same model has no problem in carrying the load which the said ups fails to carry.

Sir I hope I have made it clear , What is your analysis now?

[talhawaleed]

Thank you sir for the kind reply. Now let me clear few points.

There is no problem of backup time.

The UPS can carry load upto 660W and previously it was carrying it happily but now it will carry half of the load it used to carry in past. With half load it will go on and on but exceeding than half it will get shutdown by the inbuilt circuit breaker of the ups and it will become very hot. After restart if the we reduce the load again it will go on and on.

Another UPS of the same capacity , same make, same model has no problem in carrying the load which the said ups fails to carry.

Sir I hope I have made it clear , What is your analysis now?

Did you see the above AMP-Meter, use that and calculate the load. First find out that maximum capacity of your UPS system from manual or printing on UPS system and then follow the directions which I am going to tell you.

1) Once batteries are fully charged, attach the Amp-meter with main wirings of UPS system. Image 1 will show how to do it
2) Put the entire load on batteries and see how much current is following through the wires. Ask your brother to start increasing the load till the time it starts to beep and shutdown.
3) At that moment note down the current on piece of paper and take the reading of Voltage from batteries terminals and write it down on same paper.
4) Calculations will be such Example (considering your UPS is one battery UPS, V=12.2 Volts, I=55 AMPS)
5) Calculate the Power (P=VI) and that in this scenario will be P=12.2*55= 671 Watts
6) So, this example reading says that UPS is behaving obviously like the way it should be.
7) But if this reading is less the 600 Watt or around 500 Watt then you can consider replacing breaker with capacity upto 600 Watts.

Maybe, previously you had energy savers on UPS but now you may have bulbs on it. Bulbs consumes more electricity then energy savers and that maybe the reason you are confused. Anyway, if there is a problem with UPS then this experiment will identify the issue.

1) Image one shows, how and where you have to attach Amp-meter with battery
2) Image 2 yet again shows the same thing
3) Image 3, shows how to take reading regarding Voltage.
4) Image 4 shows a small Voltmeter attach with UPS line and output from WAPDA
5) Image 5 shows, output from UPS once entire load is put onto the batteries and batteries were fully charged. As soon as we start to add load then this Voltage starts to drop and reaches 260 Volts at Maximum Load. Then over period of time during load-shedding, Voltage keeps on falling till it reaches 220 Volts then we know that UPS is about to go and computers and TV is not safe and should be shutdown immediately. Once it reaches 230 Volts then we know we have to reduce the load otherwise, there will be pitch darkness within 15-20 minutes.

[dms664]

Did you see the above AMP-Meter, use that and calculate the load. First find out that maximum capacity of your UPS system from manual or printing on UPS system and then follow the directions which I am going to tell you.

1) Once batteries are fully charged, attach the Amp-meter with main wirings of UPS system. Image 1 will show how to do it
2) Put the entire load on batteries and see how much current is following through the wires. Ask your brother to start increasing the load till the time it starts to beep and shutdown.
3) At that moment note down the current on piece of paper and take the reading of Voltage from batteries terminals and write it down on same paper.
4) Calculations will be such Example (considering your UPS is one battery UPS, V=12.2 Volts, I=55 AMPS)
5) Calculate the Power (P=VI) and that in this scenario will be P=12.2*55= 671 Watts
6) So, this example reading says that UPS is behaving obviously like the way it should be.
7) But if this reading is less the 600 Watt or around 500 Watt then you can consider replacing breaker with capacity upto 600 Watts.

Maybe, previously you had energy savers on UPS but now you may have bulbs on it. Bulbs consumes more electricity then energy savers and that maybe the reason you are confused. Anyway, if there is a problem with UPS then this experiment will identify the issue.

1) Image one shows, how and where you have to attach Amp-meter with battery
2) Image 2 yet again shows the same thing
3) Image 3, shows how to take reading regarding Voltage.
4) Image 4 shows a small Voltmeter attach with UPS line and output from WAPDA
5) Image 5 shows, output from UPS once entire load is put onto the batteries and batteries were fully charged. As soon as we start to add load then this Voltage starts to drop and reaches 260 Volts at Maximum Load. Then over period of time during load-shedding, Voltage keeps on falling till it reaches 220 Volts then we know that UPS is about to go and computers and TV is not safe and should be shutdown immediately. Once it reaches 230 Volts then we know we have to reduce the load otherwise, there will be pitch darkness within 15-20 minutes.

Sir I don't have this meter but the load has not been altered for the last two years . its the same load which was being supported by the same UPS since last two years and even now if I attach the 2nd UPS to the line which is of the same capacity , make and model it will take the load happily.

The UPS is 1000VA ie 660W
The load is as follows
4 fans
4 energy savors (20w each)
one wifi router
one laptop

For two years the UPS had no problem running the full load and most of the time it used to provide current to 2 fans 2 savors and wifi router plus laptop(because the other two fans and savors are in guest rooms so mostly they are not used) and still it supports the above half load but if the 3rd n 4th fan is switched on it will get tripped after sometime. On physical contact the UPS is felt very hot and inbuilt circuit breaker down.
Please note that battery is perfectly ok as after restart it provides backup till battery lasts but on half load.