Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[talhawaleed]

I have a 1.2KW Deutsche Power UPS. I am using 2 135Ah Batteries in series, since it's a 24V DC system.
A few days back my batteries went completely dry since i forgot to check the electrolyte level for almost a month. Now when i filled up the batteries and reconnected them to the UPS, i noticed that the UPS never stops charging them. Before this incident, the UPS was running perfectly fine charging the batteries at around 6AMPs.
But now, it does not stop at all and dries up the batteries in just a week. It's currently charging at 11 AMPs with a Voltage of 27.3V at the terminals. Even after a charge of 4-5Hrs the no load voltage of batteries does not go beyond 25.4V (No load voltage is with the UPS removed from the terminals.)
These batteries are more than a year old and i got this UPS about 4 months back. Before this, i was using a locally made UPS which got screwed up and started charging the batteries at 20AMPs.
Any suggestions on what should be done? Should i get the UPS checked or batteries replaced. UPS used to perform exceptionally well before the 'drying up' incident. It used to charge at 2-10AMPs, depending on the voltage of the batteries. But i guess the batteries are never reaching the minimum voltage for the UPS to stop charging.
Btw, i got the gravity checked from a shop and they said that it is 1250.

I am sorry, seems like batteries are dead now. There is nothing which you can do will bring it back to the life. Read the thread as you will learn the precautions.

[oklodhi]

This is a very informative thread. I was searching for some UPS batteries and came across it.

I have a desi UPS (24 volt) UPS is 1.5Kw. There are 2 batteries Exide 6FT 115 (about 100 AH each). the batteries are about 1.5 years old. Recently when Wapda power goes and UPS comes in action, some appliance do not turn. It seems the current is weak right from the start. Backup time is more than one hour with normal computer, fan and lights.

after reading this thread, i bought a hydrometer and checked the SG of the batteries.

Result of SG
Battery 1. 1170, 1200, 1190, 1180, 1170, 1170
Battery 2. 1190, 1160, 1120, 1130, 1160, 1170

I also noticed that on the batteries the area around the caps was slightly damp. The water was blackish and I noticed some particles also in the water.

I do not have a amp meter or any other metering device for checking the current, so I will ask the UPS guy to come and check the UPS for the readings.

Regarding the battery, i will purchase the electrolyte from PYRO chemicals and do a flush in the coming days. What do these readings mean ? Is the battery ok coz the backup time seems ok only some applicances like the motor in the aquarium starts making noise even if I turn off each and every other thing in the house.

[talhawaleed]

This is a very informative thread. I was searching for some UPS batteries and came across it.

I have a desi UPS (24 volt) UPS is 1.5Kw. There are 2 batteries Exide 6FT 115 (about 100 AH each). the batteries are about 1.5 years old. Recently when Wapda power goes and UPS comes in action, some appliance do not turn. It seems the current is weak right from the start. Backup time is more than one hour with normal computer, fan and lights.

after reading this thread, i bought a hydrometer and checked the SG of the batteries.

Result of SG
Battery 1. 1170, 1200, 1190, 1180, 1170, 1170
Battery 2. 1190, 1160, 1120, 1130, 1160, 1170

I also noticed that on the batteries the area around the caps was slightly damp. The water was blackish and I noticed some particles also in the water.

I do not have a amp meter or any other metering device for checking the current, so I will ask the UPS guy to come and check the UPS for the readings.

Regarding the battery, i will purchase the electrolyte from PYRO chemicals and do a flush in the coming days. What do these readings mean ? Is the battery ok coz the backup time seems ok only some applicances like the motor in the aquarium starts making noise even if I turn off each and every other thing in the house.

Variations is there in C.G but anyway get the UPS Adjusted. Once light goes off with batteries fully charged then output of UPS line should be 250 Volts. Try to use the UPS for fans and lights only. It can be used for computers and TV but in that scenario you need an eye on output Voltage all the time.
260<voltage<230, external="" wall="" mount="" voltmeter="" will="" help.=""
Rest, also try to get other variables adjusted and flush the batteries if you feel, you can easily do it.
P.S: dont keep aquarium on UPS. motors falls under the category of inductive loads which disturbs the power factor. These local UPS are best for Resistive loads.

</voltage<230,>

[Khurrammoon]

A.O.A
Talha Bhai! i need your suggestions for the following issues.
I have a Cyberpower inverter (CPS 1200EI with LCD display) and Exide Battery NS 200, after 7 months of working perfectly my inverter now keeps on charging the battery. Now it is winter season and power outages are only 1 to 2 hours a day. I regularly top up the battery with distal water when it is needed. Last time when only 23 watts bulb was running on the inverter for an hour and when main electricity came inverter kept on charging the battery. I checked the battery and it did not heat up even after the charging of 4 to 6 hours. Then I turned the inverter off, removed all the cables and topped the battery with some distal water and then it remained off for one day then I connected the cables and inverter started charging the battery again in off position. After charging for 2 hours inverter did not stop, I turned off the main electricity supply the turned it on within few seconds and then inverter automatically stopped the charging after 30 seconds or so. Now my question is that whether there is some thing wrong with the inverter or is it the battery?

There is another thing which I have noticed. When the main supply is on and my computer is running and if I cut off the main for inverter then my computer neither restarts nor shuts down but when main is cut off by the power grid then my computer shuts down and lcd monitor runs on the inverter then I have to restart my computer. This is a strange thing which I do not understand.

[talhawaleed]

Very simple tests will point towards the problem. You will need Voltmeter and amp-meter.

1) Verify the voltage across the battery terminals, it should stop charging the batteries once Voltage reaches 14 Volts. If its exceeding 14 Volts then it means that UPS requires adjustment.

2) Verify the charging rate of batteries using Amp-meter, this will tell you if charging rate is slow or fast and provides a data on which I would be able to comment.

3) Verify the output Voltage on one of the switches, it should be around 240 Volts with batteries charged. Check this Voltage once lights goes off and batteries are in fully charged state. Maybe, during switchover Voltage maybe low due to the problem with the batteries that why your computers restarts.

Normally, once you have to topup the batteries more often then that?s one sign that things are not going well with the batteries. Always provide this data so that I may be able to comment on the problem precisely.

At- times there is nothing wrong with the UPS but its just that few cells have died within the battery and at-times you need to adjust the UPS system slightly so that it may not kill your batteries within a short span. It can be anything but cant comment without having the proper data on disposal.

[HellsGuardian]

Hello there, i am having strange problem with my ups and battery. Kindly read through whole post so you get the idea regarding what might be the problem

Some key info and history:
- Battery is only 4 month old, i bought a new volta T120
- Its a desi made ups, the housing says microtech. But never gave any problem until now
- UPS used to work perfectly for around 2 months after i purchased battery. It could go easily for an hour with 3 fans, 1 tube light, 1 energy saver and small Internet modem.
- One thing i always wonder about is that the fluid level of my battery has never dropped even a little, all these 4 months, i keep checking the level so that if more distilled water is needed but it has never dropped at all.

Main Problem:
My ups/battery system lasts only about 25minutes on just one 24w energy saver and a 60W laptop charger.

Strange behavior:
Then once light is back, UPS starts charging the battery and after 15minutes, it stops and battery-full-light turns on.

I check the voltage level when ups has stopped charging and it is around 14v. but after about 5 or 10mins, the voltage level starts to drop and on 12.44v and UPS again kicks in to charge up the battery. After around 2-10 seconds, UPS again turns off and voltage level on battery is again 14v. Which then slowly drops and then same thing happen (ups kicks in for 2-10 seconds and stops, then after 5min, again kicks in for 3 seconds and then stops) This keeps going on endlessly

Plz tell me, what is the problem and its solution'?

[talhawaleed]

Strange behavior:
Then once light is back, UPS starts charging the battery and after 15minutes, it stops and battery-full-light turns on.

I check the voltage level when ups has stopped charging and it is around 14v. but after about 5 or 10mins, the voltage level starts to drop and on 12.44v and UPS again kicks in to charge up the battery. After around 2-10 seconds, UPS again turns off and voltage level on battery is again 14v. Which then slowly drops and then same thing happen (ups kicks in for 2-10 seconds and stops, then after 5min, again kicks in for 3 seconds and then stops) This keeps going on endlessly

Plz tell me, what is the problem and its solution'?

Although, You have not told me the charging rate of the batteries but even then I can point towards the problem just by reading the symptoms provided.

Basically, the charging rate is set to a very high value and normally once this happens then UPS behaves in the similar fashion.

Batteries attached to this UPS is T120 so the AMP-HR rating of the battery cannot be above 90 AMP-HR roughly. Charging rate should not be above 10 AMPS or if you can reduce it to 6 AMPS then I think this should be the best scenario.

Remove the battery caps, you will find them black from inside which is one of the signs that battery is being charged with very heavy current. Verify the charging rate and ask the relevant technician to set it up to 6 or 7 Amperes maximum.

[HellsGuardian]

Although, You have not told me the charging rate of the batteries but even then I can point towards the problem just by reading the symptoms provided.

Basically, the charging rate is set to a very high value and normally once this happens then UPS behaves in the similar fashion.

Batteries attached to this UPS is T120 so the AMP-HR rating of the battery cannot be above 90 AMP-HR roughly. Charging rate should not be above 10 AMPS or if you can reduce it to 6 AMPS then I think this should be the best scenario.

Remove the battery caps, you will find them black from inside which is one of the signs that battery is being charged with very heavy current. Verify the charging rate and ask the relevant technician to set it up to 6 or 7 Amperes maximum.

ill check the charging rate and let you know.
Can i adjust the charging rate myself? just give me a diagram or some info so that i can identify the charging rate control button (or knob)

secondly is it normal that my ups battery is not decreasing its fluid at all? ever since it came.. my car battery needs to be refilled every 15-20 days but its been 4 months and ups battery level has never dropped at all.

[talhawaleed]

ill check the charging rate and let you know.
Can i adjust the charging rate myself? just give me a diagram or some info so that i can identify the charging rate control button (or knob)

secondly is it normal that my ups battery is not decreasing its fluid at all? ever since it came.. my car battery needs to be refilled every 15-20 days but its been 4 months and ups battery level has never dropped at all.

Charging rate on most UPS systems are controlled by taking the wire out from transformer and inserting another wire in appropriate slot. In few UPS system, charging rate is controlled by presence of on board variable. So would not advise you to even try this. Call the UPS guy and ask him to do it for you.
Yes, its normal for batteries not to reduce electrolyte within first year. Reduction of electrolyte level more often is an indication that batteries are going bad.

[HellsGuardian]

Charging rate on most UPS systems are controlled by taking the wire out from transformer and inserting another wire in appropriate slot. In few UPS system, charging rate is controlled by presence of on board variable. So would not advise you to even try this. Call the UPS guy and ask him to do it for you.
Yes, its normal for batteries not to reduce electrolyte within first year. Reduction of electrolyte level more often is an indication that batteries are going bad.

But the UPS used to work great for previous battery as well as 2months of this new battery. If charging rate is still same as before, why is it behaving abnormal now?

And dont worry i am used to such stuff, all i need to know which wire/setting needs to be changed.

[talhawaleed]

See, you are telling things in very layman term. Still you have not provided any solid data such as Charging Rate, cutoff Voltage, output voltages etc. how you expect me to help you out. I told you all from my experience after reading the symptoms.

Answer to your second question: Every UPS has a different design and different ways to control charging currents. I can’t comment till the time I am not available on the site. So call the UPS technician and if you know things so well then supervise and test the results using proper meter once technician has made the adjustments.

P.S: batteries are suppose to last minimum 2 years, but yours went bad after 2 months. Is it now enough to know that some variable is out of tuning that's why it has started to create problem within first two months.

[HellsGuardian]

See, you are telling things in very layman term. Still you have not provided any solid data such as Charging Rate, cutoff Voltage, output voltages etc. how you expect me to help you out. I told you all from my experience after reading the symptoms.

Answer to your second question: Every UPS has a different design and different ways to control charging currents. I can’t comment till the time I am not available on the site. So call the UPS technician and if you know things so well then supervise and test the results using proper meter once technician has made the adjustments.

P.S: batteries are suppose to last minimum 2 years, but yours went bad after 2 months. Is it now enough to know that some variable is out of tuning that's why it has started to create problem within first two months.

The reason i am posting the problem here is that i dont know a good trustworthy UPS guy. I know he will just charge me loads of money even if the problem is small, and in the end it all goes back to where it started. I'll be pleased if u can recommend some good UPS guy in Islamabad.

oh and ur saying that my battery has died :o

[talhawaleed]

No, I am not saying that your battery died, normally bad UPS settings kills the batteries very quickly. Right now, I think charging rate is very high that?s why it kicks the voltage on terminals to 14 Volts and UPS once receives its signal that appropriate voltage has been attained then cuts off the charging. Once, you will slow down the charging rate then this will not happen and batteries will get a chance to charge properly.
Take your UPS to college Road, Rawalpindi and their ask any technician to adjust the charging rate and then verify the value with a amp-meter. Since, I can do these minor adjustments myself so never bothered to consult any technician.
Electricity is dangerous, one wrong connection can cause a bad spark and can kill your UPS and further can damage you. So consider paying few rather then ending in trouble.

[HellsGuardian]

No, I am not saying that your battery died, normally bad UPS settings kills the batteries very quickly. Right now, I think charging rate is very high that?s why it kicks the voltage on terminals to 14 Volts and UPS once receives its signal that appropriate voltage has been attained then cuts off the charging. Once, you will slow down the charging rate then this will not happen and batteries will get a chance to charge properly.
Take your UPS to college Road, Rawalpindi and their ask any technician to adjust the charging rate and then verify the value with a amp-meter. Since, I can do these minor adjustments myself so never bothered to consult any technician.
Electricity is dangerous, one wrong connection can cause a bad spark and can kill your UPS and further can damage you. So consider paying few rather then ending in trouble.

Thanks for the help, will do

[Khurrammoon]

Hello Talha Bhai, Following are the reading from the battery;

? Inverter remained off for 24 hours and input of inverter from main socket was disconnected and the reading on battery terminals was 12.5V.
Hydrometer readings are as following;
Cell no 1= 12.4
Cell no 2= 12.4
Cell no 3= 12.4
Cell no 4= 12.7(I added 30 ml distal water in this particular cell and then the reading was 12.3)
Cell no 5= 12.4
Cell no 6= 12.4
? Then I inserted the input of inverter into the main?s socket and inverter charged the battery for 45 minutes and terminated charging the battery after that. I took the readings on the battery terminals and it showed 13.7V. (the inverter manual states that this inverter charges the battery on 13.7V).
? Then I cut off the main and checked the out put on one of the socket?s for output voltage of battery and it showed 192V however, LCD indicator on inverter was showing 220 V as output voltage.
? After 5 minutes I resorted the main?s input to inverter and it started charging the battery for approximately 40 minutes then I turned off the power button of inverter and it stopped charging the battery immediately.
? Voltage reading on battery terminals was 13.7V while the inverter had stopped charging the battery.
? After 3 minutes voltage dropped to 13.4 V.
? After 20 more minutes voltage further dropped to 12.9V.
? Then I removed the inverter?s input from the main and inverter was also in off position after 2 more hours voltage reading was 12.6V.
? After the passage of 15 hours battery output voltage was 12.5V and voltage has remained the same even after 36 hours. (inverter is still in off mode while the input of main has been disconnected however, inverter cables were connected all the time with the battery.
It is quite strange that when my inverter keeps on charging the battery for some time and then I rapidly turn off main?s input to inverter and then restore it some times inverter stops charging the battery and some times it doesn?t.

It is still unclear whether there is a problem with the battery or inverter is the actual culprit. Battery does not heat up what so ever neither any cell is bubbling rapidly.

[Khurrammoon]

Talha Bhai during a 25 minute power outage this evening only 120 Watts load was running on inverter and wapda power came back after 25 minutes and then inverter charged the battery for approx one hour and automatically terminated the charge. So do you think that inverter consumes more time while charging the battery.

[talhawaleed]

Hello Talha Bhai, Following are the reading from the battery;

? Inverter remained off for 24 hours and input of inverter from main socket was disconnected and the reading on battery terminals was 12.5V.
Hydrometer readings are as following;
Cell no 1= 12.4
Cell no 2= 12.4
Cell no 3= 12.4
Cell no 4= 12.7(I added 30 ml distal water in this particular cell and then the reading was 12.3)
Cell no 5= 12.4
Cell no 6= 12.4
? Then I inserted the input of inverter into the main?s socket and inverter charged the battery for 45 minutes and terminated charging the battery after that. I took the readings on the battery terminals and it showed 13.7V. (the inverter manual states that this inverter charges the battery on 13.7V).
? Then I cut off the main and checked the out put on one of the socket?s for output voltage of battery and it showed 192V however, LCD indicator on inverter was showing 220 V as output voltage.
? After 5 minutes I resorted the main?s input to inverter and it started charging the battery for approximately 40 minutes then I turned off the power button of inverter and it stopped charging the battery immediately.
? Voltage reading on battery terminals was 13.7V while the inverter had stopped charging the battery.
? After 3 minutes voltage dropped to 13.4 V.
? After 20 more minutes voltage further dropped to 12.9V.
? Then I removed the inverter?s input from the main and inverter was also in off position after 2 more hours voltage reading was 12.6V.
? After the passage of 15 hours battery output voltage was 12.5V and voltage has remained the same even after 36 hours. (inverter is still in off mode while the input of main has been disconnected however, inverter cables were connected all the time with the battery.
It is quite strange that when my inverter keeps on charging the battery for some time and then I rapidly turn off main?s input to inverter and then restore it some times inverter stops charging the battery and some times it doesn?t.

It is still unclear whether there is a problem with the battery or inverter is the actual culprit. Battery does not heat up what so ever neither any cell is bubbling rapidly.

Batteries seems to be in excellent condition. With batteries fully charged and UPS enters into loadshedding the output Voltage should be around 250 Volts. 192 Volts on output is very dangerous for LCD monitors, TVs, Computers etc. This variable can be adjusted easily provided that your specific UPS has a variable for that. Ideally, Lead Acid batteries should be charged till 14 Volts and once terminal voltage will hit 14 Volts then UPS will stop charging the batteries. It is normal for the output across battery terminals to fall till 12.5 or 12.4 volts but once this will hit a limit set by manufacturer then UPS will start charging the system again. This is a good feature as it makes sure that UPS keeps the batteries charged all the time even though there is no load shedding. Batteries left in discharged state for longer duration dies very quickly.

[Khurrammoon]

Batteries seems to be in excellent condition. With batteries fully charged and UPS enters into loadshedding the output Voltage should be around 250 Volts. 192 Volts on output is very dangerous for LCD monitors, TVs, Computers etc. This variable can be adjusted easily provided that your specific UPS has a variable for that. Ideally, Lead Acid batteries should be charged till 14 Volts and once terminal voltage will hit 14 Volts then UPS will stop charging the batteries. It is normal for the output across battery terminals to fall till 12.5 or 12.4 volts but once this will hit a limit set by manufacturer then UPS will start charging the system again. This is a good feature as it makes sure that UPS keeps the batteries charged all the time even though there is no load shedding. Batteries left in discharged state for longer duration dies very quickly.

Talha Bhai bundle of thanks for your input. I have noticed another thing during the power outage of 25 minutes I checked the voltage on the terminals of battery and it dropped to 12.1 V, after 23 minutes while only 120 Watts load was running on the inverter. Is this rapid decrease or normal? If there is some thing wrong with the inverter then it is still under warranty, I guess I should take it to those people for adjustment. However, when I called them a few days back then they stated that your batteries wouldn’t be working properly as their inverter is fine. How can they suggest such a thing without the inspection of the inverter unit? I guess warranty in this country is a sham excuse to sell products.

[talhawaleed]

Talha Bhai bundle of thanks for your input. I have noticed another thing during the power outage of 25 minutes I checked the voltage on the terminals of battery and it dropped to 12.1 V, after 23 minutes while only 120 Watts load was running on the inverter. Is this rapid decrease or normal? If there is some thing wrong with the inverter then it is still under warranty, I guess I should take it to those people for adjustment. However, when I called them a few days back then they stated that your batteries wouldn?t be working properly as their inverter is fine. How can they suggest such a thing without the inspection of the inverter unit? I guess warranty in this country is a sham excuse to sell products.

During power outrage, Voltage on terminals will drop but it should not drop below 10 Volts. If it reaches somewhere around 10.4 Volts then you need to check the Voltage on output such as if it is still above 220 Volts or not. If output is around 223 Volts and Voltage on batteries is around 10.4 Volts then this is time that you need to shut down your pc immediately. Once Voltage hits 10 Volts or 10.2 Volts on batteries then at this point UPS should beep and should shutdown immediately. Excessively discharging the lead acid batteries below this point also damages the batteries once this trend repeats its self over and over again.

[Khurrammoon]

During power outrage, Voltage on terminals will drop but it should not drop below 10 Volts. If it reaches somewhere around 10.4 Volts then you need to check the Voltage on output such as if it is still above 220 Volts or not. If output is around 223 Volts and Voltage on batteries is around 10.4 Volts then this is time that you need to shut down your pc immediately. Once Voltage hits 10 Volts or 10.2 Volts on batteries then at this point UPS should beep and should shutdown immediately. Excessively discharging the lead acid batteries below this point also damages the batteries once this trend repeats its self over and over again.

Strange Phenomenon

Battery Fully charged and inverter terminated the charging by it self. I turned off main and checked inverter’s output directly from inverter’s AC out let and the reading was 176 V while there was no load on inverter. However, LCD indicator on inverter screen was showing 220 V output.

2nd Step:
I connected the phase wire in inverter’s out put socket and turned on 2x 23 Watts bulbs and inverter showed 184V output voltage in another socket of the room. Gradually volts increased to 192V.
When I tuned of the both bulbs (when there was no load on the inverter it once again shows 179 V in the same socket).
3X 23 Watts bulbs load on inverter, reading in socket showed 195V.
4X 23 watts bulbs load on inverter, reading in same socket increased to 198 V and then I turned on a 40 Watts tube light and volts increased to 205V.
4x bulbs+ 2x tube lights, voltage in socket 202V.
Then turned every thing off, meaning there was no load on the inverter and reading in socket gradually reduced to 179V.
I repeated these steps three times and readings were strange. However, voltage output of inverter seemed to fluctuate while increasing the load or decreasing it. When there is some load on inverter during power outage then output voltage is better as compared with the inverter running without any load.

3rd Step:
2x 23 watts bulbs load on inverter, reading in socket = 191V.
3x 23 watts bulbs load on inverter, reading in socket = 195V.
4x bulbs + one 40 watt tube light, reading in socket = 202V.
4xbulbs + 2x 40 watts tube lights, reading in socket = 199V.
4x bulbs load on inverter and when I turned off both tube lights reading in socket was 212V.
Turned off all loads and reading from socket was once again 179V.

Meanwhile, when main is restored the LCD indicator on inverter shows the voltage which precisely corresponds with the voltage readings in the socket i.e inverter LCD indicator shows 129V as well as regarding on socket shows 128 V or 127V.

However, the reading on battery terminals was 12.3 V during this time.