My Electric (BEV) Mehran Project

[NaXuN]

hmm very nice work man

[khurram_rulz]

@frk2 damn dude - You are going to be a millionaire INSHALAH - Great work - Interesting and innovative - Atleast now we are going for something special - Cheers mate

[frk2]

We need videos of the proper test. And in terms of performance, is it quicker than a ice mehran? What speed have you acheived?

Owais, I doubt it'll be quicker as in top speed but it should have better torque acceleration specially in the lower speed range. I'm guessing past 50 or 60 it would start losing to a ICE mehran (petrol)

But again, you hardly go over 80 in a mehran in karachi anyways. And if you do there is something wrong in your head

[frk2]

khurram_rulz: I hardly doubt that - that aint the point either. Just wanna make money off something I love doing

[syncview]

Nice work mate!

Any updates regarding the air conditioning part?

[spectra]

I have a wild idea of a hybrid where rear wheels are driven by electric motors and you can charge the car by drivig on internal combustion engine

[frk2]

syncview - not yet. Air conditioning is a huge debate in EVs worldwide. The problem is that a regular car air conditioner is anywhere from 3-5 tonnes!!!!! That means its around 7-8kw. That is a lot of energy to waste on airconditioning (almost as much as the electric motor itself). I think I'll have to wait till I get my Lithium batteries for the air conditioner. I can also simply install a 1 tonne air conditioner compressor (home air conditioner) and use a 2kw 72v to 220v invertor. However lets see - its cooling down anyways so motivation is low.

[frk2]

spectra thats not too wild there are cars doing that. However you need some really cool control systems to put that in place. So the gain in efficiency is very small compared to the cost of the systems and parts.

[BilalYusrat]

Which battery do you plan to use? Most batteries have 300 charges max (which depends of course). And after they have been charged 300 times they are useless.

I was thinking of a suggestion.. May be when your car is running (on battery) you can stick a generator to the rear wheels (which are free perhaps) and use that to generate the battery while it moves it charges the engine too..

But I personally do not see this thing happening. Battery powerfull enough to carry a car isn't realistic. But let us hope that I am wrong.

[OptimusSS]

well i saw this documentary where the made a milk van run on battery power. it was pathetic basically because they can out quickly and a very slow speed was obtained. ill try to find the link.

[frk2]

BilalYusrat - The shitty batteries I am using (lead acid starting batteries) will probably only last 300-500 cycles. However the choices I have are:

1. Lead Acid Deep Cycle Batteries (1500 cycle life)
2. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) Batteries: More expensive, 3000 cycle life, no degradation of quality, high density charge

And yes - you are wrong - China has electric Buses and electric forklifts. Many airport transports used in the world are electric.

The generator idea does not make sense since all generators act as brakes, transferring mechanical energy to electrical energy. Since this is a wasteful process it would be useless (unless you use it as regen braking)

[frk2]

Oh and check out this sports car: 100% battery vehicle:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

[frk2]

So i am thinking: Though it might be a stupid idea to expect people to buy this car in the short term but what if I start some sort of a taxi service / pick and drop service with a fleet of mehrans and cultus'.

This would be classified as ultra low cost transport. These cars would have air conditioning, and probably cost about Rs. 8 per km. They would have a meter and could be ordered online, through a phone call or even SMS.

To compare Metro costs around 27 per km and local taxis probably around 15 or 18 per km. even rickshaws cost 10 per km.

The idea is basically for intra-city transportation to places which have no parking. This includes office pick / drops. Shopping runs and misc stuff. Taxi response time could be as low as 20 - 25 minutes. GPS Tracking means we would be able to tell you instantly how long the cab would take.

wanted to ask you if it makes sense and /or you please would be interested in using a service like the above.

[Retaliator]

yea i wud like to use a service like this one. but when u ll open a company gov will ask u to pay taxes n the cost will increase.

[frk2]

Retaliator - Ive been running my own business for over 4 years - trust me tax evasion is business 101 otherwise the pakistan government taxes any 'legitimate' business way over 30-40% (which in unbearable). Sometimes, taxation is in advance - which is never returned to you (Withholding tax for example!).

But in a cash only business - there is little issue!

[nightsurfer]

@frk2

In my opinion, the next step should be to go for a light weight (maybe fiber) body prototype. The car can be a two seater (for decreasing weight and hence decreasing the cost of manufacturing and operation). I'd say a two seater (small) ultra economical car with reasonable performance has tremendous potential in the local market provided that it is done the right way.

[frk2]

nightsurfer? I would like to think so too - but In my current experience as a high techc company ownder I feel that people generally have a problem with any new technology being introduced. So I dont know how receptive they would be to the idea.

The two seater is possible, I can also simply replicate the mehran or buy chassis / axles etc from china which would be for a mehran clone (the mehran body can be fabricated even in sheet metal completely locally). I can even get body parts from china if need be. So starting to assemble cars locally is not a problem - Start with max import and then go to minimum import, keeping the core technology local. However that does require significant investment- something that can be arranged, if one is totally sure it'll work The ultra compact car can probably go 200+ kms on a single 10kwh charge with 2 people!!!

What I can probably do is have a assembly shop and get everything imported from china from a car factory already producing stuff for suzukis. Electrical work / control systems would be done locally. Chinese are open to shady deals like that

But you seriously think it'll sell? Another problem is the price. There is no way the electric car is selling for under 300k (with bad batteries) and 450k with amazing batteries. This is for the mehran. I dont know about the 2 seater yet.

[nightsurfer]

frk2:

Why not? If done the right way it should sell. Chinese option isnt a bad one, but the car should not necessarily be a Mehran. I have seen people on PW going for fiber body pannels and stuff. If you could have a chassis and the frame designed and fabricated; and with fiber pannels you probably wouldn't have to look towards China.

Earlier, you talked about a tubular frame supporting a fiber body. It could be a feaible option. And if somehow, you are able to sell a nice looking, airconditioned 2/4 seater in around 2.5 to 3 lacks I find no reason why it shouldn't sell.

You obviously however, would like to go for a complete survey before taken on such a project.

[frk2]

It is indeed doable. You would still need china for the Axles, transmission, Steering , brakes, etc. but yes the chassis / body can be easily manufactured locally. Feroze khan @ Adam motors was already doing that.... a metal body with a smaller footprint than the mehran (2 door, 4 seater, hatchback) is also very possible and economical. Specially if the rear body panel is made of fiber and the door / hatch of normal steel (jeep style). This would also look nice - reduce a LOT of weight and not give a plastic feel to the doors / hatches.

[frk2]

@nightsurfer- what do you think about the issue of load shedding? My argument is that you charge the car overnight, and you usually do have electricity for 3-4 hours overnight (which is whats required for charging) Also we can have longer range vehicles which dont need full charge every day.

What are your thoughts? Is the 8 to 10 time savings enough to justify the load shedding inconvenience?

On the flip side in extreme situations it can be charged with any 1kva power source - a small generator would do.