My First Mercedes, C class w203

[supereagle]

how much does a neat W203 costs these days in lahore?

my father wants the new corolla but i am tyring to convince him for the merc with a little money on top.

he seems to argue that even if its a merc , it still is a very old model, no matter how good it was maintained it still gonna need repairs and those aint cheap, plus he is not in the mood of visiting workshops.

as you own one, please suggest is it really a wise decision to buy such a car?

Mohtaram @ali454 Sahib,
May I come in here sir.

My points are as under:

1. Only you can answer the question if it's better to go for a W203 or a Corolla.

2. If I were you, I would go for a good, clean, well-maintained W203 and not a Corolla.

3. These days a clean W203 would cost from anywhere between 1.8 million to 2.2 million depending on the year.

4. People do have good W203s but they don't sell them, for they want to use them themselves.

5. I'm looking for a W203 for my cousin and I came across a 2005 C180 Avantgarde, Japan import and he was willing to give it to me for 1.4 million. I wouldn't have offered even 0.5 million for the car because it was not in a good condition.

6. Be patient and have a look around and you will find one.

7. About maintenance. It is not very expensive as compared to a new Civic or a Corolla provided the car is in a good condition. If it's in a bad shape, then you'll be in a pretty bad shape too. Go for a new Civic or a Corolla.

8. Get it checked from a professional and don't forget to probe into clocking (odometer roll-back). Walk away from a clocked car. It's not worth it.

Best of luck in finding a good W203. I'd definitely recommend it to you, for you'll enjoy the ride of a Mercedes. I've kept many and absolutely love them.

Regards.

[supereagle]

@arzaam.bhatti bhai. Chor chori say jaata hy, hera pheri say nahi. But it really surprised me about the guy I wanted to buy the car from because he was very rich with Rs. 40 million cars parked in his driveway and even he is majboor for his Desi hera pheri.

Koi sharam he nahi Ati logon ko meter peechay kartay howay.
Bhai Allah nay tumhain itna diya howa hy k tum 10 C Class Allah key rah main khayrat Kar saktay ho phir bhee meter pechay kartay ho. Allah key laanat aisi baimaan zehniyat pay.

Mohtaram @ferrari10 Sahib,
Car clocking is quite rampant everywhere. Fortunately it's very easy to detect on a Mercedes through technology if other physical giveaways have been concealed through car restoration. You can bust it by hooking up the official Star Diagnosis System (SDS) and go into the ECU to read the miles.

Don't take deceit to heart. Don't get upset. Good and evil is everywhere.

Regards.

[supereagle]

Hi guys, would like to show you and give a insight to my Mercedes-Benz C class, w203 (2002) model, its my first Benz and i on popular request in this thread i would not only be showing you the car but also giving a insight to whats it like owning this model or a Benz in particular compared to domestic cars and also give some facts about maintainece and what and what not to do, comments and questions welcome and do say Masha Allah

DSC02330 by Arzaam Bhatti, on Flickr

Index has been divided into 4 categories and is intended for all types of audiences and their queries.

Car Showcase:
Engine bay, post 30, page2
interior, post32, page 2
page 3, post 56
page 3, post 59

Maintainece/Running Costs Info:
Page 2, post 22
page 2, post 31
page 2, post 34
page 3, post 55
page 4, post 65
page 4, post 67
page 5, post 81
page 5, post 82
page 9, post 162
page 10, post 184 good summary
page 10

Additions/Modifications:
tyres, page 3 post 43
headliner, page 3, post 46/49/50
infotainment page 7 post 139

Model Information:
page 2, post 35
page 3, post 53
page 3, post 54
page 5, post 86
page 7, post 123

Mohtaram @arzaam.bhatti Sahib,
I'd appreciate the girl. She's very beautiful. You must be enjoying the ride!

Regards.

[ferrari10]

you cannot fix stupid - have you ever wondered why there are so many cars out there in Pakistan with gauge problems? some strange specced models dont even some with a engine warning lamp or similar, the models that do - have it permanently lit up if you mess with the guages readings with more than 50 miles/80 kms difference.

@xulfiqar Bhai, yay gauges ka Kiya chakkar hay?  Why have they become permanently messed up?  I had a look at a 2003 C200 yesterday with its check engine light on.  Maalik kehtaa hy k spark plugs change honay walay hain.  What is going on with the car bhai jaan?

[arzaam.bhatti]

Mohtaram @arzaam.bhatti Sahib,
I'd appreciate the girl. She's very beautiful. You must be enjoying the ride!

Regards.

Thankyou for the kind comments
I am enjoying it more than any other ride I have owned before

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[arzaam.bhatti]

@xulfiqar Bhai, yay gauges ka Kiya chakkar hay? Why have they become permanently messed up? I had a look at a 2003 C200 yesterday with its check engine light on. Maalik kehtaa hy k spark plugs change honay walay hain. What is going on with the car bhai jaan?

Check engine light never comes on because spark plugs need changing

Car will indicate Service B needed in FSS menu in case of spark plugs

Check engine light is much more serious
You'll need to get the car on star and see what's the issue

The car in question is with the m271 engine ?

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[Xulfiqar]

@Xulfiqar Bhai, yay gauges ka Kiya chakkar hay? Why have they become permanently messed up? I had a look at a 2003 C200 yesterday with its check engine light on. Maalik kehtaa hy k spark plugs change honay walay hain. What is going on with the car bhai jaan?

fudging with gauges in a later mercedes can cause a permanent check engine light (if so equipped) - because there is a mismatch between ECU and gauge face. the good thing about Mercedes Benz diagnosis system is that it provides every little detail including how many times the engine has been started and how many kms/miles have been written.

A hookup to SDS will make the car spit out all error logs - saara doodh aur pani alag hojata hai. And such tooling/equipment is what makes MB a wonderful car to diagnose and work on.

Check engine light never comes on because spark plugs need changing

Car will indicate Service B needed in FSS menu in case of spark plugs

Check engine light is much more serious
You'll need to get the car on star and see what's the issue

The car in question is with the m271 engine ?

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the check light will illuminate when it detects severe misfire and the ECU will report and log a misfire code - very old spark plugs can cause this, so can bad coils or dirty injectors or even a severe loss of compression like a worn out cam.

In the later models the system will shut down that specific cylinder completely to save the cat converter in the exhaust.

because people are still stuck in 1950 vegzaal aur inglish gaddi - for them misfire = pilugg shaat hai

[ali454]

In my experience these are the best cars in terms of run/cost relationship. - You can repair them back to 100% specification and will actually get the super long mileage runs from it. The issue in Pakistan is jugaarbaazi and prudent people who buy this car for looks and pomp only and give them to chauffeurs, Its silly, the real experience of it is in the drivers' seat.

as margallar said - if you compare parts costs of a C class with that of new genuine parts of a Honda civic/toyota corolla you will be surprised.

sir i agree on the genuine parts cost of honda/toyota as compared to the mercs.
but the thing is, almost anyone can repair them, while its not the case with the mercs..jugaars do work on toyotas or hondas. while they dont seem to work on the mercs apparantly.
in country like this with bizzare dynamics, if you have to maintain your merc properly there are workshops like Shanawaz etc, but then again, they will exploit the owner to the fullest imo.
mercs are tempting for sure, and i have seen many people giving mercs a thought while buying a new corolla or a civic, but they backed out eventually.

[N2O]

shahnawaz does not exploit people in general maintenance,thats what i have seen with new cars maintenance. They just do what is written in the manual. If something needs replacement (either by mileage or by period of time),they replace it accordingly.

Although the parts are a bit expensive,but i think it justifies as the you save time,hassle of finding parts online by a good supplier,then custom issues etc.

[arzaam.bhatti]

All I would say of shahnawaz after having extensive experience of them is
A) they are not expensive unnecessarily
B) only they alone have genuine OE parts and you can order smallest of things such as O rings without any trouble as well as big things such as body panels or new keys
C) they mostly follow the service manual but at the same time also make grave errors, like most people tjeu cannot be trusted you must stand with the car and make sure proper procedure is carried out
D) sometimes they also like to take shortcuts but because of ignorance
I have not seen them do Any jugaars
E) they don't accept outside parts you cannot bring your own parts nor can you just buy the parts alone you must get work done from them
F) the guy behind the parts counter is sometimes worse than a teenager he won't know a thing what he's talking about and not tel you part numbers you have to show them who's boss and person paying in advance to make sure the right part is ordered and unnecessary parts are not ordered and neither something important left out
G) they are very friendly actually, staff doesn't mind you observing you are allowed inside Worksop full time, the workers are very courteous and all earn well even the sweeper doesn't take tips and they also get a limited number of social benefits from the company
H) they don't accept cars if they already have check engine light lit or jugaars done they will tell you a huge bill to scare you away or keep your car for days or make you sign disclaimers reason being they already run on I'll capacity and don't like to get thier hands in especially old cars as they may have a lot of faults and they don't stack parts readily you have to wait three months from Germany

I would still say they are the best place st the moment to go for Mercedes provided you know yourself are knowledgable and don't fall for some of their absurd procedures

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[exquisite27]

Asalam o alaikum,
i have initiated a thread Mercedes E200 2007/08 or Merc C200 2007/08?? and a friend posted about ur thread. i have read it from page 1 to 17 and it was a treat to read the comments, care and obsession of you all for merc.
Well I don't consider myself able to post comments on this thread regarding merc as i have never owned one but follow blogs about merc since long.
Now I'm planning to buy one and this thread have given me a good deal of knowledge. thnx everyone and specially Arzaam -Bhatti.
i will be very great and will look forward for ur able guidance and suggestions for buying a merc. here i wouldn't like to divert the current topic but if any of you get some spare time, do comment on the thread i initiated. thnx all once again

[arzaam.bhatti]

changed the number plate from a black one to the original lahore plates, police have recently increased strictness on non original number plates and i didnt want any trouble.

was pleased to see the original number frame at the back with VIN number mentioned.

also gave the area a good cleanup

i love working on MB cars, just because of the fact that their hood opens so wide its a blessing, its so big it almost touches the garage roof

and yes the engine could use a good cleanup.

[Xulfiqar]

All I would say of shahnawaz after having extensive experience of them is
A) they are not expensive unnecessarily
B) only they alone have genuine OE parts and you can order smallest of things such as O rings without any trouble as well as big things such as body panels or new keys
C) they mostly follow the service manual but at the same time also make grave errors, like most people tjeu cannot be trusted you must stand with the car and make sure proper procedure is carried out
D) sometimes they also like to take shortcuts but because of ignorance
I have not seen them do Any jugaars
E) they don't accept outside parts you cannot bring your own parts nor can you just buy the parts alone you must get work done from them
F) the guy behind the parts counter is sometimes worse than a teenager he won't know a thing what he's talking about and not tel you part numbers you have to show them who's boss and person paying in advance to make sure the right part is ordered and unnecessary parts are not ordered and neither something important left out
G) they are very friendly actually, staff doesn't mind you observing you are allowed inside Worksop full time, the workers are very courteous and all earn well even the sweeper doesn't take tips and they also get a limited number of social benefits from the company
H) they don't accept cars if they already have check engine light lit or jugaars done they will tell you a huge bill to scare you away or keep your car for days or make you sign disclaimers reason being they already run on I'll capacity and don't like to get thier hands in especially old cars as they may have a lot of faults and they don't stack parts readily you have to wait three months from Germany

I would still say they are the best place st the moment to go for Mercedes provided you know yourself are knowledgable and don't fall for some of their absurd procedures

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Either MB in Lahore are mentally challenged or they tried to feed a story to you (which they do usually - even in Karachi)

explain this to me.

they will not accept a car with a "lit check engine light" - WHAT? - who told you that??. The very function of the check engine light is to tell the user to go to mercedes benz workshop.

Do they expect all cars to come to them with no check engine lamp?

[arzaam.bhatti]

Either MB in Lahore are mentally challenged or they tried to feed a story to you (which they do usually - even in Karachi)

explain this to me.

they will not accept a car with a "lit check engine light" - WHAT? - who told you that??. The very function of the check engine light is to tell the user to go to mercedes benz workshop.

Do they expect all cars to come to them with no check engine lamp?

i mean that if the car is a grey import and you for the first time are going to them, they have never serviced the car before they dont accept servicing the car but say that either leave the car for two days then we will see if we can infact work on it or not, or give a huge bill in advance of checking charges,or make the customer sign a disclaimer . they dont always refuse flatly.

a car which is bought from them or a car they have serviced once before and have it in their database they'll obviously work on it no matter how many lights are lit.

[arzaam.bhatti]

even though my car didn't have any malfunctions on the first ever visit which was for coolant change and power steering fluid they made me sign a disclaimer whose half of the terms i made them cross out that didn't apply to me and had a good argument for about 15 min on the rest. as a result now if they didn't install the new rattle clips back properly or didn't use a dial gauge to adjust the hub they happily rectify the repair immediately instead of saying like on the disclaimer that we are not responsible for any work done on the car.

[Xulfiqar]

i mean that if the car is a grey import and you for the first time are going to them, they have never serviced the car before they dont accept servicing the car but say that either leave the car for two days then we will see if we can infact work on it or not, or give a huge bill in advance of checking charges,or make the customer sign a disclaimer . they dont always refuse flatly.

a car which is bought from them or a car they have serviced once before and have it in their database they'll obviously work on it no matter how many lights are lit.

Oh - got it, It would have been good to mention the gray import part. Yes I know the huge problems with the gray import cars and getting their parts and service specifications for it.

This happens all around the world - you bring in a spec of car not of that region - sign here

[Xulfiqar]

even though my car didn't have any malfunctions on the first ever visit which was for coolant change and power steering fluid they made me sign a disclaimer whose half of the terms i made them cross out that didn't apply to me and had a good argument for about 15 min on the rest. as a result now if they didn't install the new rattle clips back properly or didn't use a dial gauge to adjust the hub they happily rectify the repair immediately instead of saying like on the disclaimer that we are not responsible for any work done on the car.

good show - tell them who pays

[arzaam.bhatti]

good show - tell them who pays

yep, though they sometimes say i spent way too much on a old car and i should get a newer mercedes, i say you guys first learn to service this one properly before i trust you with a bigger investment. they are just lazy but gradually i have seen them be more conscious with me and now i am more conscious with them too and question on everything especially big thanks to you otherwise i would not have even realised which of their practices were bad by myself.

[Xulfiqar]

yep, though they sometimes say i spent way too much on a old car and i should get a newer mercedes, i say you guys first learn to service this one properly before i trust you with a bigger investment. they are just lazy but gradually i have seen them be more conscious with me and now i am more conscious with them too and question on everything especially big thanks to you otherwise i would not have even realised which of their practices were bad by myself.

you are very welcome.

I think I should stroll into the Khi facility when I come to Pk next - I bet if there is old staff there, they would have collective headaches

[Xulfiqar]

sir i agree on the genuine parts cost of honda/toyota as compared to the mercs.
but the thing is, almost anyone can repair them, while its not the case with the mercs..jugaars do work on toyotas or hondas. while they dont seem to work on the mercs apparantly.
in country like this with bizzare dynamics, if you have to maintain your merc properly there are workshops like Shanawaz etc, but then again, they will exploit the owner to the fullest imo.
mercs are tempting for sure, and i have seen many people giving mercs a thought while buying a new corolla or a civic, but they backed out eventually.

late reply but there is more to this story.

car repair in Pakistan has boiled down to 95% scrapped parts (including screws), how many cars can you point out on the road that have been repaired 100% with OE genuine factory parts?

the other factor is that the average car owner is still stuck in a mentality of viewing a car as a luxury item and hence are still stuck in showoff, resale, plastic on seats and other silly things including meter tampering to keep the resale up.

The deepest factor is that there is less than 1% of car owners in Pakistan who actually appreciate quality work, for them oil change on footpath with recycled oil and newspaper funnel is better than a service bay or even service pit oil change. They dont care if the technician is using plumbing and carpentry tools on the car. e.g. tappet setting on old engines can be done by hawaee tukka OR you can do it correctly - naturally one is cheaper than the other.

Another factor, there is a different approach to working on german cars as compared to japanese ones, in Japanese cars you sort of make a space to jam your hands in it to repair, its somewhat doable in german cars but if you stop and take a look you can make your life 100 times easier if you remove a few assemblies to make all the room you want. There is also a factor of tooling. A good mechanic would have a full toolset with multiple styles of tools - most mechanics in Pakistan only buy a handful and cheap ones to repair japanese ones and call it a day and then go even further to not refer the service manual.

The end result usually is a car held together with sheet metal screws (cut sakroo) and cable ties and nearly every nut/bolt rounded off because of made in rural china tools.