My New Power Generating Machine--Lister Petter (15 KvA)

[lse1]

Tausif Bhai, your thread is like gold for those looking for quality generators which are hassle free. Thanks for your time.

My question is how much is the load of 1.5 Ton spit type AC at start, and would 5KVA be able to support it would would we be pushing it?

Thanks for supportive review of the thread.
1 ton AC takes 9 Amps at starting and then within a minute or two becomes stable at 6.5 to 7 amps. Multiply Amps with Voltage (220) and you'll get the wattage
I.e., 9 amps x 220 v = 1980 Watts and 7 amps x 220 v = 1540 Watts.
It means that your AC will consume almost 2000 Watts at starting and 1500 Watts on continuous running. 2000 Watt is the key figure here as without it the AC compressor won't start. While selecting a genset, keep in mind that your total load should not exceed more than 80% of the generators total capacity. In your case, you should search for a generator with an output rating of minimum 2400 Watt (2.4 KW) or divide 2400Watt with 0.8 Power Factor 2400/0.8=3000 VA or 3 KVA.
Don't mix KW with KVA. KVA is always larger than KW.
You need 2.4 KW or 3 KVA genset.
My suggestion...........calculate the load of your UPS too and put it on Generator cause WAPDA will be absent for long time and your UPS won't be able to charge........Secondly, when a generator is running than why not to take advantage of it and also charge UPS?

Now about the brand part........I consider Generator as an investment, just like a car. It gives you services and comfort. So its better to invest in something worthwhile rather in some Chinese crap that will require your service instead of giving service....Lolz.
Honda is the best of the best in the market and also my personal experience. They are expensive but trust me every penny worth it.
Here is a link of my Honda and you'll get a better idea after reading the discussions there.
www.pakwheels.com/forums/sale/209979-fs-honda-made-japan-gas-generator-em6000gn-free-ats
Second option is Yamaha, if you can find a genuine one. Both of these are Japan made, expensive but trouble free. All you'll be doing with these is oil change and air filter clean and that's all. They are designed to run for years and years.
Third option is Chinese. They are cheap (one forth the price) but will keep on bothering you.
Hope I explained enough.

[hasooboy]

Yes very reasonable. Is this price including the GST which is often written separately in Metro and you know it when you actually go for the payment :P.......Lolzzzzz.

I have checked it again the price is 1lac 59 thousand so may be my price is including of GST

You are right Metro has this habit of putting GST later on, in this regards Makro was lot better as there price is always include all kind of taxes

[tausifs]

I have checked it again the price is 1lac 59 thousand so may be my price is including of GST

You are right Metro has this habit of putting GST later on, in this regards Makro was lot better as there price is always include all kind of taxes

THats good. I think there is no harm in calling the original distributor of Lister Petter........just to get an idea of prices. I think i have posted there website address in the main post. Talk to mr. Khalid or optionally miss Arooj and give her my reference, they might give you a discount as well :P. If there price is high, ask them why metro is selling for low etc.
My experience with metro in terms of electronics has never been good. Spend wisely after good research.

Www.pana.com.pk

[tausifs]

Tausif Bhai, your thread is like gold for those looking for quality generators which are hassle free. Thanks for your time.

My question is how much is the load of 1.5 Ton spit type AC at start, and would 5KVA be able to support it would would we be pushing it?

THanks for the kind words bro. The main purpose of this thread is to guide people from my own experience irrespective of good or bad.
1.5 ton split AC typically consumes 12 Amps (2640 Watts) and once in full spin, it consumes 9.5 Amps (2090 Watts) . Your 5kva (4kw or 4000 Watt) generator can easily run it. However, please bear in mind one very important thing.
Your full intended load should not exceed 80% of the total generators capacity.
In your case.......80% of your 5kva or 4 kw generator is 4kva or 3.2 kw.
This simply means that you should not put a load more than 3.2 kw or 3200 watt on your 5kva/4kw genset. Anything in access to 3200 watt will put generator in a hard struggle and you'll be pushing it to the limit.
Your 1.5 ton AC is consuming 2700 watts at startup still leaving you a balance/capacity of 500 watts to run a few energy savers and fans. Afterwards, your 1.5 ton will be using 2100 watts hence leaving you a balance of 1100 watts.
If you understood my post, let me know........ill tell you more intresting thing

[lse1]

Very interesting. I will have to think thoroughly as fuel consumption is another factor to take into account as you increase the load. I am thinking of building a farm house in outskirts of Islamabad, where gas may not be an option, and therefore UPS charging would also need to be taken into account. hence, maybe 7-8 KVA may be a better option. But confused until I do more calculations I am not sure about fuel consumption anyways, and waiting for you to give your fuel consumption calculations once ACs and Loadshedding kick in properly!

THanks for the kind words bro. The main purpose of this thread is to guide people from my own experience irrespective of good or bad.
1.5 ton split AC typically consumes 12 Amps (2640 Watts) and once in full spin, it consumes 9.5 Amps (2090 Watts) . Your 5kva (4kw or 4000 Watt) generator can easily run it. However, please bear in mind one very important thing.
Your full intended load should not exceed 80% of the total generators capacity.
In your case.......80% of your 5kva or 4 kw generator is 4kva or 3.2 kw.
This simply means that you should not put a load more than 3.2 kw or 3200 watt on your 5kva/4kw genset. Anything in access to 3200 watt will put generator in a hard struggle and you'll be pushing it to the limit.
Your 1.5 ton AC is consuming 2700 watts at startup still leaving you a balance/capacity of 500 watts to run a few energy savers and fans. Afterwards, your 1.5 ton will be using 2100 watts hence leaving you a balance of 1100 watts.
If you understood my post, let me know........ill tell you more intresting thing

[tausifs]

Very interesting. I will have to think thoroughly as fuel consumption is another factor to take into account as you increase the load. I am thinking of building a farm house in outskirts of Islamabad, where gas may not be an option, and therefore UPS charging would also need to be taken into account. hence, maybe 7-8 KVA may be a better option. But confused until I do more calculations I am not sure about fuel consumption anyways, and waiting for you to give your fuel consumption calculations once ACs and Loadshedding kick in properly!

Bro take your time and do your homework properly. You need to calculate the load of other things too which are vital for a farm house i.e., feed machine, water pumps, water tube well or boaring, etc. I dont think 5 kva would do the job for you.
Anyways, keep everyone posted here. It helps other members including myself.

[lse1]

Haha.. no i meant it only a residential 'farm house', not really a working farm! but still water pump and other options need to be considered!

Bro take your time and do your homework properly. You need to calculate the load of other things too which are vital for a farm house i.e., feed machine, water pumps, water tube well or boaring, etc. I dont think 5 kva would do the job for you.
Anyways, keep everyone posted here. It helps other members including myself.

[hasooboy]

After trying for so many days, today i was able get in contact with Technovision. As they suddenly picked up the call so was unable to ask every question which i have in my mind.

They Kholer Gas genset is starting from 10kva but as there website says they have 8.5kva too.
So the complete call was like this and its all about 10Kva forget its model number.

1- They were shifting there office that why there lines were dead.
2- The genset cost 4.5 lac comes with standard ats and battery.
3- About 5 year warranty (he laugh) says its was given as Kohler standard warranty but in USA as they don't have loadshedding or electricity problems. SO in Pakistan we are getting 1year/2000hours(Hours are same as USA) which ever comes first.
4- Size and dimension was about same as deep-freeze plus minus
5- As he said price is much final no negotiation is possible.
6- Its opera table even at low gas pressure.

Now my question is that we are using Two chinese genset which we replaced every year just to get 1 year tension free warranty
What about the reliability of this gen set as its a heavy investment, What you guys suggest or any other dealer from where we can get cheap gas genset alternative.
Thanks.

[hasooboy]

Just call Jasco they are giving RES-14 same techno vision is giving just genset with 3lac 90 thousand with battery and ATS with one year warranty and 2 free services.

[tausifs]

After trying for so many days, today i was able get in contact with Technovision. As they suddenly picked up the call so was unable to ask every question which i have in my mind.

They Kholer Gas genset is starting from 10kva but as there website says they have 8.5kva too.
So the complete call was like this and its all about 10Kva forget its model number.

1- They were shifting there office that why there lines were dead.
2- The genset cost 4.5 lac comes with standard ats and battery.
3- About 5 year warranty (he laugh) says its was given as Kohler standard warranty but in USA as they don't have loadshedding or electricity problems. SO in Pakistan we are getting 1year/2000hours(Hours are same as USA) which ever comes first.
4- Size and dimension was about same as deep-freeze plus minus
5- As he said price is much final no negotiation is possible.
6- Its opera table even at low gas pressure.

Now my question is that we are using Two chinese genset which we replaced every year just to get 1 year tension free warranty
What about the reliability of this gen set as its a heavy investment, What you guys suggest or any other dealer from where we can get cheap gas genset alternative.
Thanks.

Just call Jasco they are giving RES-14 same techno vision is giving just genset with 3lac 90 thousand with battery and ATS with one year warranty and 2 free services.

BRo, both have quoted you the same price because ATS costs around 60 to 70k.
Kohler are good machines. I have one installed at my karachi home for the last many years. But please keep in mind that gas and for that matter Petrol generators espically this big will require a lot of msintainance. That is the reason why big gensets come in diesel engines. Diesel engine is very simple and has less servicable parts i.e., just engine oil, oil filter, fuel filter and air filter. Whereas for a gasoline engine you have to look after the tappet adjustments, valve clearance, engine tunings, spark plugs in addition to the oil, oil filter, air filter etc. Moreover, the maintainance of diesel is a diy whereas for tappets, tuning etc you'll have to call the company everytime which will rip you off.
No doubt gas is cheap but do look into the peace of mind and hassle free operation. In USA they use it for emergency in hurricanes etc which is once or max twice a year whereas in Pakistan we will make sure that its f0ck3d properly...........thats why they give 1/3 warranty. Diesel engines work life long if maintained properly which is not the case with gasoline engines.
Meet some customer, see somewhere installed, ask for problems and maintainance from some owner and not the company because its hard to earn legally in these times
On a side note, i have a nissan diesel engine generator of 110 Kva i think, installed at my office since 1981. Since then it is running like a work horse and never had any issues. All we do is change oil, oil filter and air filter on time. Ill post its picture here on this thread.

[hasooboy]

BRo, both have quoted you the same price because ATS costs around 60 to 70k.
Kohler are good machines. I have one installed at my karachi home for the last many years. But please keep in mind that gas and for that matter Petrol generators espically this big will require a lot of msintainance. That is the reason why big gensets come in diesel engines. Diesel engine is very simple and has less servicable parts i.e., just engine oil, oil filter, fuel filter and air filter. Whereas for a gasoline engine you have to look after the tappet adjustments, valve clearance, engine tunings, spark plugs in addition to the oil, oil filter, air filter etc. Moreover, the maintainance of diesel is a diy whereas for tappets, tuning etc you'll have to call the company everytime which will rip you off.
No doubt gas is cheap but do look into the peace of mind and hassle free operation. In USA they use it for emergency in hurricanes etc which is once or max twice a year whereas in Pakistan we will make sure that its f0ck3d properly...........thats why they give 1/3 warranty. Diesel engines work life long if maintained properly which is not the case with gasoline engines.
Meet some customer, see somewhere installed, ask for problems and maintainance from some owner and not the company because its hard to earn legally in these times
On a side note, i have a nissan diesel engine generator of 110 Kva i think, installed at my office since 1981. Since then it is running like a work horse and never had any issues. All we do is change oil, oil filter and air filter on time. Ill post its picture here on this thread.

We have daily load shedding of 10 hours which is fixed and some time un announced occurs too. So by this if a Diesel genset consume 2liter/hour which makes 2,140rs 30 equals too 64,200rs which is too much for us. Can't go for diesel as it will increase our running cost too. Gas as comparison to Diesel is pretty much cheap :P. If A Gas genset gives 10k/ year of maintainance charges then its acceptable, excluding oil and filter. But my main concern is if i am investing that much amount it should be complete peace of mind, Other wise i would stick with my previous Strategy of 5kva2 which only need at night as on is works on full load at daytime.

And one more thing do you know about LED lights and energy saving Ceiling fans its a good idea if i was able to cut down the over all load with the help of these which not only decrease my requirement of Genset but also reduce KESE bill too. I have also thinked about solar panel but right now its very expensive.

[tausifs]

We have daily load shedding of 10 hours which is fixed and some time un announced occurs too. So by this if a Diesel genset consume 2liter/hour which makes 2,140rs 30 equals too 64,200rs which is too much for us. Can't go for diesel as it will increase our running cost too. Gas as comparison to Diesel is pretty much cheap :P. If A Gas genset gives 10k/ year of maintainance charges then its acceptable, excluding oil and filter. But my main concern is if i am investing that much amount it should be complete peace of mind, Other wise i would stick with my previous Strategy of 5kva2 which only need at night as on is works on full load at daytime.

And one more thing do you know about LED lights and energy saving Ceiling fans its a good idea if i was able to cut down the over all load with the help of these which not only decrease my requirement of Genset but also reduce KESE bill too. I have also thinked about solar panel but right now its very expensive.

How about if you can run off the grid through solar panels at day time while keeping your UPS charged up for the night with out any additional battries except for the UPS. I am working on a project now a days........hope it finishes in time after a small pilot plant experiment. Ill post the details in a couple of weeks. Expexted cost should be within 50 to 70k excluding a 3.2KVA, 24 volts ups with battries that i already have.

[tausifs]

We have daily load shedding of 10 hours which is fixed and some time un announced occurs too. So by this if a Diesel genset consume 2liter/hour which makes 2,140rs 30 equals too 64,200rs which is too much for us. Can't go for diesel as it will increase our running cost too. Gas as comparison to Diesel is pretty much cheap :P. If A Gas genset gives 10k/ year of maintainance charges then its acceptable, excluding oil and filter. But my main concern is if i am investing that much amount it should be complete peace of mind, Other wise i would stick with my previous Strategy of 5kva2 which only need at night as on is works on full load at daytime.

And one more thing do you know about LED lights and energy saving Ceiling fans its a good idea if i was able to cut down the over all load with the help of these which not only decrease my requirement of Genset but also reduce KESE bill too. I have also thinked about solar panel but right now its very expensive.

LEDS sure cut down on the energy consumption. Prices are a bit high though but worth looking into it as there life is way much when compared to current options (bulbs, energy savers). I think Philips has introduced these in Pakistan too (saw in newspaper). Energy saving fans are crap. I am looking at some DC fans to run on panels directly but didnt like there speed.

[hasooboy]

How about if you can run off the grid through solar panels at day time while keeping your UPS charged up for the night with out any additional battries except for the UPS. I am working on a project now a days........hope it finishes in time after a small pilot plant experiment. Ill post the details in a couple of weeks. Expexted cost should be within 50 to 70k excluding a 3.2KVA, 24 volts ups with battries that i already have.

I have thought about it and have already discussed about it with my friend who is working with a solar panel company and he says its a new thing and people are taking a lot of margin in let wait and let the price to come down. Waiting for your project to complete will love to see its outcome

P.S i am thinking for installing a small solar panel just for one room to check how its perform before going to a big project. Let see what we decide in the end

Most probably we will be getting a one more 5Kva Jasco generator

[hasooboy]

LEDS sure cut down on the energy consumption. Prices are a bit high though but worth looking into it as there life is way much when compared to current options (bulbs, energy savers). I think Philips has introduced these in Pakistan too (saw in newspaper). Energy saving fans are crap. I am looking at some DC fans to run on panels directly but didnt like there speed.

Phillips and LG both are providing LED but they are very expensive Chinese LED available in market for 600-700rs at 7-9 watts.
I have also seen some DC AC which runs completely on panels have you seen them ? i think they cost 80k with solar setup. Only AC would be cheaper. My friend told me Chinese are working a lot in DC appliances.

[tausifs]

I have thought about it and have already discussed about it with my friend who is working with a solar panel company and he says its a new thing and people are taking a lot of margin in let wait and let the price to come down. Waiting for your project to complete will love to see its outcome

P.S i am thinking for installing a small solar panel just for one room to check how its perform before going to a big project. Let see what we decide in the end

Most probably we will be getting a one more 5Kva Jasco generator

Phillips and LG both are providing LED but they are very expensive Chinese LED available in market for 600-700rs at 7-9 watts.
I have also seen some DC AC which runs completely on panels have you seen them ? i think they cost 80k with solar setup. Only AC would be cheaper. My friend told me Chinese are working a lot in DC appliances.

Solar panel prices will come down only when china will start pouring crap..........and it would always be crap. Cost of batteries is the main problem which I dont see coming down. Its a whole mafia. Secondly, what i concluded about solar energy is that its not completely reliable................
People in USA and some other westren countries which get to see some good sunlight have installed solar panels which through an electronic module send the extra electricity back to the grid and get credits for it in thier monthly bill for contributing to the electricity generation. Now hows that

[hasooboy]

Solar panel prices will come down only when china will start pouring crap..........and it would always be crap. Cost of batteries is the main problem which I dont see coming down. Its a whole mafia. Secondly, what i concluded about solar energy is that its not completely reliable................
People in USA and some other westren countries which get to see some good sunlight have installed solar panels which through an electronic module send the extra electricity back to the grid and get credits for it in thier monthly bill for contributing to the electricity generation. Now hows that

Yeah he told me about the reverse metering you can also sell electricity to the company but if its in Pakistan people will tempered it too and get lac's with out doing any thing hahaha

there is a big question mark on the reliability of Solar panel you are right, and its not feasible for every one too.

I have asked you about the DC AC do you know about them if you see them anywhere update in this thread. It will be good for your solar panel too.

One more thing hows your experience with Kholer which you use at your place in karachi. How much they charged for each visits. what problems you have faced in its running.

[tausifs]

Yeah he told me about the reverse metering you can also sell electricity to the company but if its in Pakistan people will tempered it too and get lac's with out doing any thing hahaha

there is a big question mark on the reliability of Solar panel you are right, and its not feasible for every one too.

I have asked you about the DC AC do you know about them if you see them anywhere update in this thread. It will be good for your solar panel too.

One more thing hows your experience with Kholer which you use at your place in karachi. How much they charged for each visits. what problems you have faced in its running.

Havent seen dc AC niether heard of one. I think one cant run such appliances directly off the panel because of high starting surge........there needs to be a battery backup that too a big one.
Kohler that we purchased almost 8 or 9 years back was made and imported from USA which is not the case now. They are manufactured in china under license due to cheap labour, free electricity and low transportation costs. My cousin has given contract to some company on yearly basis who come and visit the generator once or twice a month and do the necessary work (tuning, oil etc) and he pays them 60 to 70k per anum for this task. This includes the price of all oil changes, filter changes, spark plug etc etc. They are paid so much just for one reason and that is..........The generator should never go down.
Dont know what amount he renewed the contract for this year. Will ask him.....

[tausifs]

Yeah he told me about the reverse metering you can also sell electricity to the company but if its in Pakistan people will tempered it too and get lac's with out doing any thing hahaha

there is a big question mark on the reliability of Solar panel you are right, and its not feasible for every one too.

I have asked you about the DC AC do you know about them if you see them anywhere update in this thread. It will be good for your solar panel too.

One more thing hows your experience with Kholer which you use at your place in karachi. How much they charged for each visits. what problems you have faced in its running.

No problems as such. Just routine stuff. Maximum is long self for starting sometimes........failure to start etc. Nothing serious.

[hasooboy]

Havent seen dc AC niether heard of one. I think one cant run such appliances directly off the panel because of high starting surge........there needs to be a battery backup that too a big one.
Kohler that we purchased almost 8 or 9 years back was made and imported from USA which is not the case now. They are manufactured in china under license due to cheap labour, free electricity and low transportation costs. My cousin has given contract to some company on yearly basis who come and visit the generator once or twice a month and do the necessary work (tuning, oil etc) and he pays them 60 to 70k per anum for this task. This includes the price of all oil changes, filter changes, spark plug etc etc. They are paid so much just for one reason and that is..........The generator should never go down.
Dont know what amount he renewed the contract for this year. Will ask him.....

I have seen some vendors giving DC Air conditioners here are the link

Welcome to Paksolar

Solar Air Conditioners, Solar Split AC, Solar Floor AC Unit Electronics, Karachi Sindh Pakistan

I think LG should introduced this here in Pakistan
Solar Powered Air Conditioner by LG