Nissan AD VY11, QG13DE, Engine Head Problem (Plz Advice)

[ahmed2396]

Nissan engines wear very slowly, and are very reliable. I would advise you to do a compression test. Most of the times timing chain wears on these engines after 150k kms, engines has lack of power and jerks too.

[first_blood]

Thanks capsat, the ATF was replaced some 15k kms back and is ZIC ATF III, however i will replace it on coming sunday. I normally replace ATF at 15 - 18 K Kms intervals. The current condition of ATF is not blackish and look reasonably clean.

[first_blood]

This is all happening because of incorrect valve clearance,Al madina engineering is not capable to perform machining work on sophisticated engines.Its better to redone head work by Malik engineering at radio Pakistan,if needed.
There is no special valve assembly for use on cng,For cng valve clearance should be kept on plus side by .005mm w.r.t specification.

Thanks dear, actually i handover my engine head to AlMadina engineering at water pump karachi as it was advised by few friends and the mechanic. From the very first day after rebuild, I does not feel the power in the engine which it had when I bought the car but the mechanic insists that it will be better with time, valves make their place on seats bla bla. I ask about special valves as this engine also came in CNG versions in japan. i.e.QG18DEN so i thought may be there are any valves for LPG/CNG applications. I will go for the rebuild if the matter is not sort ed out soon, because car behaves very bad (Shaking the whole body) when in stop position.

[first_blood]

immediately change the transmission fluid

am not sure which city you are located, Obama car care Tipu Block, Lahore can do the job nicely.

I am in Karachi brother.

[first_blood]

Nissan engines wear very slowly, and are very reliable. I would advise you to do a compression test. Most of the times timing chain wears on these engines after 150k kms, engines has lack of power and jerks too.

Thanks for your concern dear, from where in karachi compression test can be performed. I also want to know the whereabouts of some good mechanic who can reliably work on nissan engines. The timing chain has no abnormal sound infact one cannot hear any noise from timing Chain. During the last head rebuild, the chain look clean and nice and it was also cleared by that mechanic. However, I will keep it in consideration if goes for 2nd rebuilt.

[first_blood]

This engine head is lean burn aluminium construction, can it be rebuild successfully by machinist available in Karachi.
What about head assembly from shershah (Kabli), but i have no experience how to check head at shershah. If it wont work nicely my whole money will be wasted as they did not return sold parts. He may replace it with another head but question remains whether its worthy or not.

Regards,

[IsbCap]

How much you spent in total? Your best bet was to throw in a QG18DE or QG15DE. Much more powerful and better fuel economy. These rebuilds are waste of money most of the time.

IMHO QG13DE is too under powered for this heavy chassis.

[first_blood]

How much you spent in total? Your best bet was to throw in a QG18DE or QG15DE. Much more powerful and better fuel economy. These rebuilds are waste of money most of the time.

IMHO QG13DE is too under powered for this heavy chassis.

Thanks for reply. Dear I spent around 20K on head rebuild including labor, machinist, valves set, gasket and oil etc. My engine block (i.e pistons, rings and bearings) are in good condition, no engine oil loss, smooth engine sound etc. for that reason I go through that head rebuild. Isnt QG18 is quite heavy on fuel (petrol) and if I go for CNG on QG18, can that engine withstand CNG heat or it ended up like my QG13 engine. Another thing which I am wondering, can QG18DE engine be mate with existing auto gearbox and ECU or I have to purchase complete setup (Engine/gear/ECU and harness).

[IsbCap]

Thanks for reply. Isnt QG18 is quite heavy on fuel (petrol) and if I go for CNG on QG18, can that engine withstand CNG heat or it ended up like my QG13 engine. Another thing which I am wondering, can QG18DE engine be mate with existing auto gearbox and ECU or I have to purchase complete setup (Engine/gear/ECU and harness).

QG18 would most probably give you better mileage than QG13 due to better power to weight ratio and running at lower RPMs. It's got huge low end torque and superb economy.

Recently many QG15 and QG18 swaps have been done. My QG15 gives around 12-13kpl in city and 16+ on long. QG18's have been reported to give almost same figures. And yes, QG's run great on CNG, too.

And most likely it would be bolt on with your existing transmission and wiring. Complete engine with gearbox and wiring should cost between 50-55K. If you have to rebuild, you would have spent 40K with still many old things in the engine and low power

@dani_kk @star2, Please guide the OP for engine swap or rebuild options.
@spectra already done QG13 to QG18 swap on his N16 sunny, so he can guide you better

[capsat]

no need to change ATF of it is 15000 km old. ATF life is over 65000 , new CVT transmission oil change is recommended at 75000+ kms - Guard is worst oil filter for JDM engines please get leppon or vic oil filter & use aisin or shell helix engine oil. if you are in Karachi Goto Jamil Autos at Shahrea Quaideen Society office +92 300 9232821 / PTCL 34761699. 10 am to 7 pm week days only

Thanks capsat, the ATF was replaced some 15k kms back and is ZIC ATF III, however i will replace it on coming sunday. I normally replace ATF at 15 - 18 K Kms intervals. The current condition of ATF is not blackish and look reasonably clean.

[first_blood]

QG18 would most probably give you better mileage than QG13 due to better power to weight ratio and running at lower RPMs. It's got huge low end torque and superb economy.

Recently many QG15 and QG18 swaps have been done. My QG15 gives around 12-13kpl in city and 16+ on long. QG18's have been reported to give almost same figures. And yes, QG's run great on CNG, too.

And most likely it would be bolt on with your existing transmission and wiring. Complete engine with gearbox and wiring should cost between 50-55K. If you have to rebuild, you would have spent 40K with still many old things in the engine and low power

@dani_kk @star2, Please guide the OP for engine swap or rebuild options.
@spectra already done QG13 to QG18 swap on his N16 sunny, so he can guide you better

You are absolutely right about engine rebuild in pakistan. I will check shershah market this weekend for QG18DE engines. Lets have some opinion by @dani_kk, @star2, @spectra and essentially by @xulfiqar bhai. AD van VY11 almost shares every thing on front with N16 sunny. By the way is it advisable to swap whole engine + transmission just due to bad engine head. Shouldn't I replace the head only from scrap. I might probably resolve my issue and will be cost effective too. Kindly advice.

[first_blood]

no need to change ATF of it is 15000 km old. ATF life is over 65000 , new CVT transmission oil change is recommended at 75000+ kms - Guard is worst oil filter for JDM engines please get leppon or vic oil filter & use aisin or shell helix engine oil. if you are in Karachi Goto Jamil Autos at Shahrea Quaideen Society office +92 300 9232821 / PTCL 34761699. 10 am to 7 pm week days only

Thanks @capsat for your concern, I usually change ATF between 15 to 20 k kms due to usage of ZIC ATFs, I am not very confident on ZIC lubes, i consider it due to its low price, however it works fine for 15k kms and after that mileage the gear shifts feels slight jerky. The reputed/branded oil filter for this engine is hard to find, during the last five years of usage i never find VIC, Nissan or Leppon filters for this engine. Some xxxxxx brothers (I forget the first name) and guard filters are available and mostly they are of Hyundai Santro.( Santro and AD 2006 oil filter are same)

I will try to visit Jamil autos this Saturday evening, Currently I am out of Karachi and will go to Karachi on weekend. I will update after the visit.

In shell Helix, which viscosity you recommend for this engine, Can I use synthetic oil for this engine (some 5w40). The ODO is 215k kms. I remembered, when I first drain oil which comes filled in vehicle from japan, it was as thin as diesel.

Does Jamil Autos have compression testing equipment, I want to get these readings before making any decision.

Regards,

[IsbCap]

By the way is it advisable to swap whole engine + transmission just due to bad engine head. Shouldn't I replace the head only from scrap. I might probably resolve my issue and will be cost effective too. Kindly advice.

Yes, for you the best option at this stage would be to change the head only. Negotiate the price well, head only shouldn't be too costly.

[first_blood]

Yes, for you the best option at this stage would be to change the head only. Negotiate the price well, head only shouldn't be too costly.

Shershah scrapies are looters, during the last rebuild, i visited shershah before disassembling of head from engine, I found same engine on two shops, they ask for around 14k to 15k without exchange of old unit. When I visited them again after disassembling about 2 weeks later they started asking 22k for the head without coils etc. both shops increased the prices as according to them there is shortage of nissan QG engines in market. They recognized that I have already disassemble the engine and now I am "majboor". To make a deal I have to purchase the unit first and then go to mechanic for replacement.

What is the expected price of QG13DE head in pindi (Bilal gunj) as i heard there are plenty of units available in pindi & peshawer markets.

[IsbCap]

Shershah scrapies are looters, during the last rebuild, i visited shershah before disassembling of head from engine, I found same engine on two shops, they ask for around 14k to 15k without exchange of old unit. When I visited them again after disassembling about 2 weeks later they started asking 22k for the head without coils etc. both shops increased the prices as according to them there is shortage of nissan QG engines in market. They recognized that I have already disassemble the engine and now I am "majboor". To make a deal I have to purchase the unit first and then go to mechanic for replacement.

What is the expected price of QG13DE head in pindi (Bilal gunj) as i heard there are plenty of units available in pindi & peshawer markets.

Transporting from Pindi to Karachi may not be too good an option.

And btw, have you scanned the error codes and ruled out any sensor faults/ misconfiguration before concluding that surely head is the culprit?

What are idle RPM values?

[first_blood]

No codes were checked till yet, so is the RPM values, AD van does not have an RPM meter in its cluster.However check engine light went ON when I drive the car on CNG and went OFF when I used it on petrol for few days. Currently, from the last one week I am running car on petrol and check light is OFF. I think if any sensor malfunctions the check light should not went OFF.

One more thing, the exhaust sound at exhaust tip is not continuous, it has the sound of that misfiring (Phak Phak sound). Last time when engine head was rebuild the same sound was there which vanishes after rebuild work.

I am willing to go to Jamil autos tomorrow in-sha Allah, ask him to connect the scan tool and pop out codes if any, lets see what it shows.

[ahmed2396]

No codes were checked till yet, so is the RPM values, AD van does not have an RPM meter in its cluster.However check engine light went ON when I drive the car on CNG and went OFF when I used it on petrol for few days. Currently, from the last one week I am running car on petrol and check light is OFF. I think if any sensor malfunctions the check light should not went OFF.

One more thing, the exhaust sound at exhaust tip is not continuous, it has the sound of that misfiring (Phak Phak sound). Last time when engine head was rebuild the same sound was there which vanishes after rebuild work.

I am willing to go to Jamil autos tomorrow in-sha Allah, ask him to connect the scan tool and pop out codes if any, lets see what it shows.

This proves that engine is misfiring.

[IsbCap]

I won't suggest to go for engine work unless it is 100% sure that there are no sensor / vacuum leak problems. Many faults don't trigger check engine light, but still cause considerable trouble (Some vacuum leaks are one of them).

Consider procuring a Elm 327 bluetooth adapter and you can check all live sensor values on your mobile phone...!!! (Cost around Rs. 1000-1200; My Sunny doesn't have RPM meter, but with ELM connected all the time, I get RPM, MAF reading, Engine temp, error codes, fuel trims, O2 values and all other information...)

P.S: Changing Exaust sound can be due to inconsistent RPMs due to vacuum leaks. Very low RPMs cause body vibration and exaust vibrations, and exaust sound can get changed at that time.

[first_blood]

You are absolutely right @isbcap, I also wouldn't go for head work unless pretty sure of valve seat issue. Vacuum leaks could be a matter, I will check it thoroughly. The idle RPM is not what it suppose to be, it is less than normal on both petrol and CNG.

I will go for compression test of each cylinder first, post the result up here then i'll go for a decision.

I am interested in ELM 327 blue tooth adapter, but from where I can procure this, the price and functions you mentioned are very right, is it compatible with the port on my car I think mine is OBDII (well I am not sure about it, I can paste a picture tomorrow morning). Is this device can help me in changing engine parameters like idle RPM etc.

I also want to change the meter cluster with some Nissan Sunny N19 Auto cluster, so that I can keep an eye on RPM. The dash board and ECU of both cars are same. Can it be directly plugged into my car or do we have to make some modification etc.

Regards,

[first_blood]

This proves that engine is misfiring.

You are right in a way @ahmed2396. The engine seems to be misfiring, loss of power is there, throttle response is sluggish. But there could be many other things that can create these symptoms, like vacuum leak, some sensor malfunctioning etc.