Toyota Surf 3rd Gen (1996-99) as first Off-roader?

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Hi guys!
Aoa. Hope to find all pakwheelers in good spirits.
As the title suggests, I'm looking to buy my first ever 4*4. I have been planning this for a month or so and have gone through almost all the discussions regarding that on this forum, even discussions from the early days of PW (in fact most of such discussions are of early days of PW). Consequently, I have made the decision to buy a 3rd generation Toyota Surf (96-97 model) with the following specs: -
a) SSR-G (with sunroof)
b) intercooler
c) 1 KZ 3.0L Diesel Engine
To explain these, I'm looking for an SSR-G because of that having both normal and sports mode i.e. hard and soft suspension option (tbh, I don't precisely know the exact purpose of hard suspension option rather than just that it's a good option to have for hardcore off-roading)
Intercooler because I have heard that diesels tend to heat up more often than not.
And now the main thing i.e. diesel engine (1KZ); because I have come to the conclusion that in comparison of 2.7 and 3.4 petrol engines in this model range, 1KZ is much more fun for off-roading. (not too concerned about the fuel average as diesel is much more expensive than petrol so the final expense of fuel would be same in my opinion)
My budget is around 1.5 million!!
My usage is around 75 kms daily in Lahore city and once every quarter to northern areas.
I have a lot of questions in my mind, kindly advise me accordingly as you all off-roaders know the questions
A special request to all senior pakwheelers to help me out here because I've sold my Altis 1.6 2017 today and cannot spend more than a week without any car.
P. S. It's my first ever topic / post on any forum.
Thanking you all in anticipation.
Best regards!

[mshoaib432722]

U cannot use a surf (96) for 1.5 million as a daily car. When u buy it, u're surely gonna spend 100k on suspension, some 75k on tyres, around 30 to 50k on some engine n parts n here n there. And it will consume around 15 to 30 days of your time (as you will have to go to garage every day or so).
So you WILL need a daily car and meanwhile u can spend all the money for repairs etc on ur surf.
No one's gonna sell surf in great condition for 1.5 million.
Take extreme care on engine condition for any blowby. Get the COMPRESSION TEST done before buYing the surf. Because if compression test fails, u'll end up spending 250k on a kabli engine or 150k on re building the same engine with genuine parts very shortly.

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Thanks for your response. I forgot to mention that I have a total budget of around 16.5 lac and after going through a lot of discussions on PW I planned to keep 1.5 lac for mandatory expenses which seemed a must to me even if I find a well maintained Surf, rather than going for a Surf in the budget of 16.5 to 17 lac (in which amount I believe I'd be able to find a good condition Surf as you say).
Secondly, I have another car at home so this will be a kind of second car (the other car not exclusively for my use but for family use as well).
Does my plan of buying Surf make any sense now?

[mshoaib432722]

Ok. Take "extremeeeeeeee" with the engine. Get the Compression Test done and then buy the vehicle. And make sure you have ample time to visit workshops for the first couple of months... and get the jobs done with patience... no hurries!
If you can increase the budget, then the best option (which i wud go for) is to get a 96 or later prado.
Much more comfy ride than a surf. And can almost go anywhere in northern areas too. Has a similar-to-surf 1kz intercooled engine... so same fuel economy but with more options.

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Patience is not my thing Lol. But I'm preparing myself to get ready for being patient for a month or so.
What about 1KZ engine? Wanting to ask about comparing it to the petrol ones. i.e. 2.7 or 3.4 petrol. Your opinion regarding this??

[Sukhran_Chopra]

And for Prado, it seems that I'll have to increase my budget by 4-5 lac. Right?
That much won't be possible for me sadly, otherwise I'm a big fan of Prado looks wise; not familiar with the drive of Prado. In fact I don't have an idea about Surf's drive as well but after reading so many discussions, I understand that it's easier to shift from Sedans to Surf than a Prado because of the later being more high and stiff in drive as compared to Surf which is smoother and more closer to a Sedan's drive.
Correct me if I am wrong here too

[mshoaib432722]

No bhai. Surf can't be a Prado & Prado can't be a Land Cruiser. So its Surf, then the more comfy Prado and then the most comfy Land Cruiser.
Anyways, 1kzte is a v.good engine. 2.7 petrol is sh*t. 3.4 petrol is also good.

For thing for diesel engines: you MUST change oil every 2500 to 3000kms otherwise engine's life reduces. For petrol, u can go like 5000kms easily.

So either it should be 1kz or 3.4 petrol. Never go near the 2.7 petrol.

[babarhyd]

1.5 mil for 1996-99 3rd gen surf is pretty low budget. Even if u get one it will need whole loads of stuff to be changed which wouls eventually increase its price to 2 mil. Plus you need SSR-G variant. I would suggest you look at buying and selling thread a guy is selling his 2nd gen surf in red color with 1kz engine and it seems one heck of a ride in Karachi. And its in your budget as well.

[dayrider]

I would suggest you sit and drive a surf before looking for one, surf is not something everyone likes to drive, it has a unique driving position which many SUV enthusiasts find annoying.
Secondly, 75 kms a day in an SUV giving 6 kml, do the math
Thirdly, in 1.5 mil go for a second generation surf or a first generation Prado, much easier to buy in this range. Always opt for a vehicle in genuine engine and condition.
Lastly, if you really wanna have some fun, and engine a bit of economy, get a Y60 Nissan Patrol, it shall fit in your budget, its a beast to own, is more economical, more fun, and more powerful. Plus all mechanical parts are available brand new for it.

[Moderator]

Hilux Surf is classified as a load hauling mid-weight Truck not an SUV

[Sukhran_Chopra]

So in what budget do you say I can get a Prado?

[mshoaib432722]

Good one b/w 20 se 22 L.
But even if u like surf or prado or whatever... (depending on ur budget), only thing is to check and re check and re check engine, gear and suspension b4 maki g final commitment with the seller.
Doesnt matter if he/sells it to someone else because of u taking time and asking for checkup of vehicle teice or thrice... There are too many vehicles in the market. So take full patience to buy.

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Well I'm based in Lahore and tbh I don't want to go for a 2nd gen Surf due to its room space and "kamaani wali suspension". I hated the drive of that thing. 3rd gen drive felt a lot different than the 2nd gen.
Secondly, I have already mentioned that I have a total budget of around 16.5-17 lacs and I planned to save the rest of the money for mandatory expenses soon after the purchase as I came to a conclusion that how much good a Surf you buy, you have to spend a lot on that first up.

[Sukhran_Chopra]

And how would I check all that by myself. I don't have a lot of idea about these things. Always owned new or most recent model car (City 2010, Civic 2013, Prius 2014, Altis 2017). So I am just used to going for oil changes or tunings and that's all the experience I have regarding cars.
Do you suggest Pakwheels car certification?

[mshoaib432722]

Yes. Pakwheels certification is also good. Call them and ask if they perform Compression Test on 1kz engines. Otherwise search threads here and you will fond some good workshops suggestions in ur city (i dont know which city u from).
So take vehicle to that particular garage and get checked. Or the pakwheels certification shud be fine (IF they do the Compression Test).

[waqasch1]

good advice throughout the thread and a bit of addition would be;
- also consider Land Cruiser 80 series (90-97) which is in budget, way better vehicle, expensive to maintain but once done properly might end of same running cost due to better mileage than a 1KZ
- to get the vehicle checked, would suggest you visit this thread https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/t/jeep-mechanic-in-lahore/897866 and the mechanics enlisted in it for Lahore, those guy are SUV experts and do NOT buy without proper pre-purchase inspection from an SUV specialist
- patience is the key if you want an SUV in Pakistan
- you can get alot more feedback from members if you can relocate or link your thread to the 4x4 threads https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/c/4x4-off-road-vehicles/general-4x4-discussion

Best of Luck and Happy 4wding!

[mshoaib432722]

In lahore, take the vehicle for checkup for following (any 1 of them):

1. Obama Car Care: 0321-4106898
2. ZM Autos (Zahid): 0331-4392160 & 0315-4392160 & 0332-4392160
3. OffWheelX (Salman): 321-8428493
4. Adnan Autos: 0321-4036007 & 0323-4036007

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Well I have heard a lot of good things about Pakwheels certification. I guess I'll just rely on that for the vehicle check up rather than going to mechanics here n there.
I'm based in Lahore btw.

[Sukhran_Chopra]

My first choice was also an LC 80 series but about that I heard that it's very high maintenance as compared to a Surf and no engine in an 80 series could do more than 5-6 km/l.
Even otherwise, 80 series should not be a first off-roader for any one, right?

[Sukhran_Chopra]

Thanks for the list. But depending upon your advice, I shall rely solely on pakwheels certification if these guys do that for 1KZ