Travel gurus

[raging_ravin]

Assalam 0 Alaikum to the travel gurus.

I have planned a trip to northern areas. Was reading different threads for example the beautiful thread of rana sher dil sahab and others for information. I was about to make a new thread but thought first i should ask here, then, if the gurus recommend, i'll make a new thread.

I have toured almost all major places of Pakistan; Thatta, Kinjhar Lake, Chilya band, Hyderabad, Quetta, Ziarat, Lahore, Rawalpindi/Islamabad, Murree, Ayubia, Patriata, Nathiya gali, Bhurban, Nowshera, Swat (mardan, malakand, mingora, saidu sharif, malam jabba, bahrain, kalam, utror upto oshu), Abbottabad, Mansehra, Balakot, Shogran, Kaghan, Naran (upto saif ul muluk lake).

all these trips were with my family when my dad took us all. now i have planned to visit northern areas. I am very confused as to what to see and what to drop. I am interested in:

1. Chitral (bumburet, Kalash/kafiristan)
2. Shandur
3. Gilgit, Gulmit, Hunza
4. Baltistan (Skardu, Deosai Plateau, Upper/lower kachura/shangrila)
5. Astor and fairy meadows.

It took days to understand a little about the location of these places and their names.

One thing that i cannot skip is fairy meadows and the other is deosai plateau. When i was younger, years back, I received a book published by Oxford University Press by the title 'Pakistan'. In that beautiful book, i saw a picture of deosai plateau, since then, i am in love with that place and i just have to see it.

I will probably start my journey on 16 or 17th june. I'll be going all alone as all of my close friends are pre-occupied and personally im more of a solitude loving un-social person so will be enjoying the bliss of solitude along with the natural beauty and calmness of nature. Perfect combination, isn't it? that said the 'wont enjoy alone' factor is not present. other than that going alone allows me to plan and adjust my trip as per my mood and i dont have to hold back or move ahead when i dont want to. i will go to islamabad from karachi and start my trip from there (or whatever the gurus suggest).

Now i need suggestions, advice and tips from brothers and gurus. I plan the trip to be 10-12 days long since i agree with rana sher dil sahab that one gets home sick after 10 days. in my case i can't stay from my bathroom for long hehehe

Time is not a problem for me since i have university vacations till 29th july. I will try to make this trip as cheap as possible but of course without taking any unnecessary burden. I've personally saved 20 thousand rupees and will take 10 thousand rupees from my father. My debit card will be there for backup in case i get short of cash. now the only thing confusing me is a good route for my trip. i dont want to pass along and see everything, rather i want to see few things but enjoy their beauty and roam around areas. for example if i go to skardu, i dont want to miss a single good place there. so may be divide the trip, for example, see options 4 and 5 on this trip and options 1,2,3 on a future trip. Also suggestions are needed if i need to add any place in my 'Go-To List' like minimarg etc. Guide me brothers!

Jazak ALLAH.

[ahub1988]

few quick questions
any waterfalls near nathia gali
whereabouts of pipeline tract and miranjani tract
do they start from nathia gali

ayubia, khanuspur, bakot forests, pipe line trek donga gali etc

[aesiege]

Answers

few quick questions
any waterfalls near nathia gali

Yes, ask anyone about Abshaaar road before Governor House in Nathia Gali and that road leads till the waterfall.

whereabouts of pipeline tract and miranjani tract

Pipeline trek starts from Dunga Gali. Ask anyone in main bazar of Dunga Gali.

The same abshaar road goes to starting point of Miranjani trek as well. Keep a guide with u if u have not done this trek before as it is long and at some points u may go in wrong direction.

do they start from nathia gali

[aesiege]

Assalam 0 Alaikum to the travel gurus.

I have planned a trip to northern areas. Was reading different threads for example the beautiful thread of rana sher dil sahab and others for information. I was about to make a new thread but thought first i should ask here, then, if the gurus recommend, i'll make a new thread.

I have toured almost all major places of Pakistan; Thatta, Kinjhar Lake, Chilya band, Hyderabad, Quetta, Ziarat, Lahore, Rawalpindi/Islamabad, Murree, Ayubia, Patriata, Nathiya gali, Bhurban, Nowshera, Swat (mardan, malakand, mingora, saidu sharif, malam jabba, bahrain, kalam, utror upto oshu), Abbottabad, Mansehra, Balakot, Shogran, Kaghan, Naran (upto saif ul muluk lake).

all these trips were with my family when my dad took us all. now i have planned to visit northern areas. I am very confused as to what to see and what to drop. I am interested in:

1. Chitral (bumburet, Kalash/kafiristan)
2. Shandur
3. Gilgit, Gulmit, Hunza
4. Baltistan (Skardu, Deosai Plateau, Upper/lower kachura/shangrila)
5. Astor and fairy meadows.

It took days to understand a little about the location of these places and their names.

One thing that i cannot skip is fairy meadows and the other is deosai plateau. When i was younger, years back, I received a book published by Oxford University Press by the title 'Pakistan'. In that beautiful book, i saw a picture of deosai plateau, since then, i am in love with that place and i just have to see it.

I will probably start my journey on 16 or 17th june. I'll be going all alone as all of my close friends are pre-occupied and personally im more of a solitude loving un-social person so will be enjoying the bliss of solitude along with the natural beauty and calmness of nature. Perfect combination, isn't it? that said the 'wont enjoy alone' factor is not present. other than that going alone allows me to plan and adjust my trip as per my mood and i dont have to hold back or move ahead when i dont want to. i will go to islamabad from karachi and start my trip from there (or whatever the gurus suggest).

Now i need suggestions, advice and tips from brothers and gurus. I plan the trip to be 10-12 days long since i agree with rana sher dil sahab that one gets home sick after 10 days. in my case i can't stay from my bathroom for long hehehe

Time is not a problem for me since i have university vacations till 29th july. I will try to make this trip as cheap as possible but of course without taking any unnecessary burden. I've personally saved 20 thousand rupees and will take 10 thousand rupees from my father. My debit card will be there for backup in case i get short of cash. now the only thing confusing me is a good route for my trip. i dont want to pass along and see everything, rather i want to see few things but enjoy their beauty and roam around areas. for example if i go to skardu, i dont want to miss a single good place there. so may be divide the trip, for example, see options 4 and 5 on this trip and options 1,2,3 on a future trip. Also suggestions are needed if i need to add any place in my 'Go-To List' like minimarg etc. Guide me brothers!

Jazak ALLAH.

WA

The first thing is your budget and travelling mode. If your maximum budget for 10-12 days is 30K then u will need a mix of public transport and jeep rides. As hiring a jeep for full time alone will cost around 30-35K. Now this situation will result in compromise on certain locations where u will be travelling on PT and cannot stop to enjoy the views and solitude

I would suggest u to stick to right side of the map

Fairy Meadows, Astore Valley and Baltistan.

And, leave Gilgit, Hunza and Chitral for next tour.

Day 1: Use NATCO and leave bus at Raikot bridge for Fairy Meadows. Join some group to reach Tatu Village as jeep rent is around 6000 for return journey.

Day 2 and 3: Trek and visit Fairy Meadows, Beyal Camp, NP View Point, Base camp if u like and then back to Fairy Meadows.

Day 4: Drop down to Raikot early morning and reach Astore town. Visit Rama Lake and stay in Astore.

Day 5: Day trip to Trashing

Day 6: The BIG day ... start from Astore and reach Chillam Chauki and then onwards to Sheosar Lake in Deosai Plains. Cross whole Deosai Plains and end at Skardu

Day 7: Visit forts, cold desert and roam around in Skardu bazars

Day 8: Visit Khaplu and Kharmang Valleys

Day 9: Visit Shigar Valley

Day 10: Visit Upper and Lower Kachura Lakes

Day 11: Return journey on NATCO

If u want to choose destinations in Baltistan there here is a list of different attractions:

Now the things are much more clear

Skardu:
- Upper and lower Kachura lakes (Shangrilla)
- Kharpachu fort
- Budhaa rock carvings (near a village on way to Sadpara Lake)
- Organic village
- Skardu bazaar
- 2nd hand market of trekking and other equipment
- Older fort in city near residence of Prince of Skardu and Deewan-e-Khaas Hotel
- Skardu Desert, which u will see on your left while coming from airport to Skardu city.

Mashurbrum is a reasonable hotel on main road (Skardu-Shangrilla).

Deosai Plains

- Sadpara Lake
- Sadpara Village
- Deosai National Park
- Bara pani
- Deosai plains
- Kalapani
- Sheosar Lake
- There are other numerous lakes which can be reached by jeep treks. Check with @Conflicted as he has seen some of those while trekking.

Shigar Valley

- A day's drive into the valley
- Shigar fort
- Shigar town
- Desert (2 patches; one with plants and 2nd pure sand)

Khaplu and Kharmang Valley

Ahead of Skardu, u will find the best road in the whole of Northern areas which leads to Khaplu and onwards to Siachen area.

A bridge comes after an hour or so and from there u have 2 different routes.
Right / straight goes to Kharmang Valley and left over the bridge goes to Khaplu.

Kharmang Valley

- Madhupur powerhouse waterfall
- Ghorashi Lake, i think jeep goes there otherwise it should be very small trek
- Mizaar of Sheikh Ali at Line of Control
- Indus enters Pakistan through this valley
- Kargil is on the other side of the end of this valley

- If way is open then a jeep trek goes to Deosai Plains from Mehdi Abad town just at start of Kharmang valley.

Khaplu Valley

- Barah waterfall (on Khaplu road, could be Mantokha, not sure though)
- Mantokha waterfall (i am not sure about this one's location)
- Kharfaq waterfall
- Kharfaq Lake (check with locals if jeeps go there)
- Thalle valley (very famous for greenery throughout the valley)
- Khaplu Town
- Khaplu fort and mosque
- Surmo Brooq village near Khaplu
- Hushe valley. U will see Mashurbrum after sometime when u travel into Hushe valley

If u want to do a full day trip into Hushe valley then stay at Khaplu. Khaplu is cascaded town made on steps. Bazaar is near the main road at lowest level. Then upper levels have houses and hotels.

The best part is ........ there are plenty of apple, apricot, cherry, anaar trees on road which u can enjoy throughout Baltistan

All this is jeepable

And i have not mentioned any significant trek in this hehe.

Enjoy, have fun and share lots of pics here

[ahub1988]

Thankyou Appreciated it very much,
Will be saving offline maps with tags in android and use it InshaAllah

Answers

[raging_ravin]

Sir @aesiege, the only thing i can say is Jazak ALLAH. Such detailed and calculated reply! really informative sir. I'll note down/print your reply. Personally I also wanted to deal with the right side this time and discover the central (gilgit) and west (chitral) side next time. Didn't knew the most efficient way to do so, but now i do

talking about budget and travel mode, i dont want to brag about myself but im pretty adaptable to all this. i'll never ride alone in a jeep, will definitely wait for a group (i somewhat want to trek from raikot to taatu, not just because of the budget, but for the sake of a little adventure)(not to mention im a walker, a good one, have walked for 10 km non-stop more than 1 time). so as i said, adapting and adjusting is not a problem for me but i wont let any thing overburden me.

As for budget, i can increase it easily but i dont want to... although if you and other gurus suggest it is too low, i'll increase it. that is the reason im taking the debit card so money is not an issue any way. Insha ALLAH i'll go and when im back i'll post all the pics and each and every detail i can.

i personally like the schedule you have given. now, talking about the sweet spots in between these locations, are there any? (obviously there will be, as my dad says that most of the beauty of any place lies in the way and the 'way' in which that spot is seen). kindly guide me about such locations and if i find anything beautiful enough to take a look at, i'll definitely get off the bus or whatever, no problem regarding the fare, no problem of finding transport to resume the journey, it is a road trip anyway, but i dont want to get off the bus only to find out that it was sewage water and then hitchhiking the rest of the way for nothing

thank you again sir, looking forward for more guidance

[aesiege]

Sir @aesiege, the only thing i can say is Jazak ALLAH. Such detailed and calculated reply! really informative sir. I'll note down/print your reply. Personally I also wanted to deal with the right side this time and discover the central (gilgit) and west (chitral) side next time. Didn't knew the most efficient way to do so, but now i do

talking about budget and travel mode, i dont want to brag about myself but im pretty adaptable to all this. i'll never ride alone in a jeep, will definitely wait for a group (i somewhat want to trek from raikot to taatu, not just because of the budget, but for the sake of a little adventure)(not to mention im a walker, a good one, have walked for 10 km non-stop more than 1 time). so as i said, adapting and adjusting is not a problem for me but i wont let any thing overburden me.

As for budget, i can increase it easily but i dont want to... although if you and other gurus suggest it is too low, i'll increase it. that is the reason im taking the debit card so money is not an issue any way. Insha ALLAH i'll go and when im back i'll post all the pics and each and every detail i can.

i personally like the schedule you have given. now, talking about the sweet spots in between these locations, are there any? (obviously there will be, as my dad says that most of the beauty of any place lies in the way and the 'way' in which that spot is seen). kindly guide me about such locations and if i find anything beautiful enough to take a look at, i'll definitely get off the bus or whatever, no problem regarding the fare, no problem of finding transport to resume the journey, it is a road trip anyway, but i dont want to get off the bus only to find out that it was sewage water and then hitchhiking the rest of the way for nothing

thank you again sir, looking forward for more guidance

Most welcome bro

Please don't try Raikot to Tatu ... not even as a challenge. It will be futile and tiring exercise with lots of dehydration and exertion plus there is nothing in the way except rocks and hot weather. Take jeep and enjoy your trek from Tatu onwards. You can always share jeep with some other group as lots of people are planning to go there.

If money is not a problem then decide on spot. Start with public transport. There is nothing on KKH to specially get off a bus and u can always take shots on the move.

Your best spots will come during treks and when u get off the road. Deosai itself is best all over the place

[conflicted]

do not attempt tatu trek.. it is an advice, a request or what ever u can say...
rest do anything, no problem... tatu trek, at times proved to be death trek for trekkers..
no it is not the case that no one has done it so saying so, some of pakwheelers have done it and as they have done it so forbid others not commit same mistake as they did.
for adventure u may chose something more thanks giving than this trek. tatu to fairy meadows trek will give u good and beautiful walk.

i have not read ur earlier post anyways, if you are going alone mark my words you will get the real taste of local culture, heritage and you will have ur memories and new friendships for life time.
best of luck, just jump and go... if you do have money and extra days in your pocket. and these two things are the answer of every question.

Sir @aesiege, the only thing i can say is Jazak ALLAH. Such detailed and calculated reply! really informative sir. I'll note down/print your reply. Personally I also wanted to deal with the right side this time and discover the central (gilgit) and west (chitral) side next time. Didn't knew the most efficient way to do so, but now i do

talking about budget and travel mode, i dont want to brag about myself but im pretty adaptable to all this. i'll never ride alone in a jeep, will definitely wait for a group (i somewhat want to trek from raikot to taatu, not just because of the budget, but for the sake of a little adventure)(not to mention im a walker, a good one, have walked for 10 km non-stop more than 1 time). so as i said, adapting and adjusting is not a problem for me but i wont let any thing overburden me.

As for budget, i can increase it easily but i dont want to... although if you and other gurus suggest it is too low, i'll increase it. that is the reason im taking the debit card so money is not an issue any way. Insha ALLAH i'll go and when im back i'll post all the pics and each and every detail i can.

i personally like the schedule you have given. now, talking about the sweet spots in between these locations, are there any? (obviously there will be, as my dad says that most of the beauty of any place lies in the way and the 'way' in which that spot is seen). kindly guide me about such locations and if i find anything beautiful enough to take a look at, i'll definitely get off the bus or whatever, no problem regarding the fare, no problem of finding transport to resume the journey, it is a road trip anyway, but i dont want to get off the bus only to find out that it was sewage water and then hitchhiking the rest of the way for nothing

thank you again sir, looking forward for more guidance

[syedahmad1]

salam
hum chitta katha hiking ka programme bna re hen ap bhaiyon men se koi wahan k karaye or mosom ki detail de skta he hun ne 18 june k bad nikalna he

[raging_ravin]

do not attempt tatu trek.. it is an advice, a request or what ever u can say...
rest do anything, no problem... tatu trek, at times proved to be death trek for trekkers..
no it is not the case that no one has done it so saying so, some of pakwheelers have done it and as they have done it so forbid others not commit same mistake as they did.
for adventure u may chose something more thanks giving than this trek. tatu to fairy meadows trek will give u good and beautiful walk.

i have not read ur earlier post anyways, if you are going alone mark my words you will get the real taste of local culture, heritage and you will have ur memories and new friendships for life time.
best of luck, just jump and go... if you do have money and extra days in your pocket. and these two things are the answer of every question.

sir @conflicted, thank you, very motivating, your post just re-fueled me i had to leave today but my car is leaking oil, replaced the chamber seal yesterday, its leaking again today, so I'll get it fixed tomorrow and leave on tuesday Insha Allah.

obviously time and money is the answer to every question but I dont want to miss important places and I want the advice of the gurus thats why im asking here. time is of no significance to me at the moment. neither is money. but there are some problems:

the karachi-rawalpindi bus has 2 schedules, one bus leaves karachi around 9 am and reaches rawalpindi around 10-11 am the next day, the second bus leaves around 3 pm and reaches around 4-5 pm the next day. now my first question is that if i reach rawalpindi, say, at 10 am, would I be able to catch NATCO for raikot bridge? if yes, would there be enough juice in me to board a bus for another 11 hours after i've traveled for the last 24-25 hours? if suppose i reach rawalpindi and spend a night there to relax, and leave for raikot the next morning, since it is roughly an 11 hour journey, i'd reach raikot around 7 pm, i'd have to reach tatu at night? i am a bit confused on this. need your advice sir @aesiege and sir @conflicted. then i'd ask further questions.

[raging_ravin]

sir @ranasherdil kindly shed some light as well. need the guidance of the gurus. obviously there are many posts on the exact same route that i want to follow, but they are confusing me more and more

[ranasherdil]

Raikot to Tatu going on foot is just like k banda karachi to pindi on foot travel shuru kar day....

From Karachi every 30 minutes Daewoo departs for Pindi. However I will advice a train trip. Karachi to lahore a lot of good trains operates e.g. night coach/shalimar/karachi express etc. (This is media that let down trains by highlighting some late train,,, aakhir train 1500km chalay ge tou aik aadha ghanta late ho bhi jae tou kia ha)
You can take proper rest in the train. One can't travel in bus such journey. There is no resturant on Daewoo route.

Go Ahead. BOL.

Don't think lot. Do it.

[ranasherdil]

Raikot to Tatu going on foot is just like k banda karachi to pindi on foot travel shuru kar day....

From Karachi every 30 minutes Daewoo departs for Pindi. However I will advice a train trip. Karachi to lahore a lot of good trains operates e.g. night coach/shalimar/karachi express etc. (This is media that let down trains by highlighting some late train,,, aakhir train 1500km chalay ge tou aik aadha ghanta late ho bhi jae tou kia ha)
You can take proper rest in the train. One can't travel in bus such journey. There is no resturant on Daewoo route.

Go Ahead. BOL.

Don't think lot. Do it.

[conflicted]

brother, in my initial years of AWARAGARDI, i roamed alone as u are going alone. and what i learnt from roaming alone in north of pakistan is only this that u get more interactions with locals resulting is visiting and knowing more places even those which are not famous and are hidden beauties. the places that are famous wont allow u to miss them.
now coming to the point, i say, roam a region visit each and every attraction and hidden beauty over there. best thing is to roam on foot no car, no bike, hitch hiking and public so that u have liberty to do anything u wish to.

northern pakistan has an endless network of trails and tracks. specify which region u wish to see. and than we can guide you not to miss the things. whole north is a big region and i think we all can write books on this topic.

Points to ponder:
1. local interactions as much as u can... in bus, in stations in villages, try to be friendly, honor and admire their traditions. make sure no one gets irritated of your questions.
2. Be humble and patient. at times u have to compromise on things u never had even in thoughts.

coming to your questions.
getting a seat of NATCO immidiatly can be a big problem. however there are other services as well, but book it earlier if possible. you can find NATCO numbers and a day before reaching you can ask them via phone to reserve your seat.

it is upon ur fitness and will power that u can contineu or not. I feel one can but if u have no problem of days and money why to exert more in cities. save urself for north.

try to manage ur route such that u reach raikot in morning or noon.. night travel on tatu trek is better to be avoided.

in fairy meadows, susar bush must be done. the fragrance of that place is unforgetable.
base camp nangaperbet. at times u hear screams of wind passing via massive structures of rock and ice. these screams can give you amazing feelings. be there to hear them...

it is said tirch mir, nangaperbet and rakaposhi are homes of fairies from where they govern their regions. on nangaperbet, your sight may give you glimpse of many shapes if you keep staring at it... a physcological effect on seen something long.. however, it is a wonderful experience..

sir @conflicted, thank you, very motivating, your post just re-fueled me i had to leave today but my car is leaking oil, replaced the chamber seal yesterday, its leaking again today, so I'll get it fixed tomorrow and leave on tuesday Insha Allah.

obviously time and money is the answer to every question but I dont want to miss important places and I want the advice of the gurus thats why im asking here. time is of no significance to me at the moment. neither is money. but there are some problems:

the karachi-rawalpindi bus has 2 schedules, one bus leaves karachi around 9 am and reaches rawalpindi around 10-11 am the next day, the second bus leaves around 3 pm and reaches around 4-5 pm the next day. now my first question is that if i reach rawalpindi, say, at 10 am, would I be able to catch NATCO for raikot bridge? if yes, would there be enough juice in me to board a bus for another 11 hours after i've traveled for the last 24-25 hours? if suppose i reach rawalpindi and spend a night there to relax, and leave for raikot the next morning, since it is roughly an 11 hour journey, i'd reach raikot around 7 pm, i'd have to reach tatu at night? i am a bit confused on this. need your advice sir @aesiege and sir @conflicted. then i'd ask further questions.

[conflicted]

and bhiya ,, we all here are friends brothers and a AWARAGARD FAMILY. Respect is the major element between us but yaar, yeh SIR etc... ziada formal nahi ho jata

[aesiege]

^^You cannot get better answers

[moonrao62442]

ASlam-o-alikum Every one.. can anyone tell me the airfair from islamabad to skardu please. both one way and return.... and the fair should be updated june 2013 please please waiting for your kind reply as we have to plan a trip to skardu

[aesiege]

ASlam-o-alikum Every one.. can anyone tell me the airfair from islamabad to skardu please. both one way and return.... and the fair should be updated june 2013 please please waiting for your kind reply as we have to plan a trip to skardu

Well, PIA website is showing 16K and 28K respectively but please confirm from some agents.

[moonrao62442]

Well, PIA website is showing 16K and 28K respectively but please confirm from some agents.

hmm thanks...will cnfirm frOm some agent....

[raging_ravin]

i had to leave for rawalpindi on tuesday but waiting now due to car, saturday ko kaam karwaya but some loose ends were left, i dont want the car to create any problems for dad when im not here. besides, car's work is done, but im not leaving tomorrow only because deosai is closed. im following the facebook page that @ranasherdil bhai suggested and other threads as well. should i wait for deosai to open or leave on wednesday and hope that it will open when im traveling because according to the schedule devised by @aesiege bhai, deosai will be day 6 of my trip.

@ranasherdil bhai, yes i'll think less and do more, but i've been reading some other of your posts and the astore-deosai-skardu or alternatively skardu-deosai-astore patch is confusing me a little. because if i add up the jeep fares you have mentioned to all the places, places that @aesiege bhai recommended, only the jeep fare goes around 20k as per my calculations, hopefully im wrong

@conflicted bhai, i wanted to see the entire northern area but understand that the trip will become very long and out of budget. since deosai was kind of my first love and i also had to visit fairy meadows on this trip, @aesiege bhai has recommended that i stick to the right side of the map. according to the plan he devised, i'll visit fairy meadow, astore, deosai and skardu. he gave detailed information about all the locations as well. the points you asked to ponder are golden words, really.

right now my plan is to leave karachi on the 9-10 am bus. there are 2 bus services to choose from, faisal movers (Rs. 2300) and karachi coach express service (Rs. 2000), i have good reviews of both. upon reaching rawalpindi the next morning at around 10-11 am hopefully Insha ALLAH, i hope to leave for chilaas instantly, reach there probably by 6-7 pm and stay there. leave for raikot next morning, reach over there, get a jeep to tatu, trek to fairy meadows, stay over there. next day go over to beyal camp, come back at night, stay again at fairy meadow. next morning reach raikot. here is where i have no idea what to do... how to reach astore.

Edit: this is basically @aesiege bhai's plan that im following, so @aesiege bhai, astore se ab aise bohat saray sawalaat ayengay